Another Bible question for Zook or other bible thumpers

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04-28-2010, 12:48 PM
Sir Artsdradamus

Another Bible question for Zook or other bible thumpers

1. Mathew 2 states that Mary and Joseph lived in Bethlehem and Jesus was born during King Herrod's reign.

2. Luke 2 states that Jesus was born in bethlehem because joseph and mary went there to register for a census.

there are manyproblems with these 2 statements. could somebody please clear these up.

A) did mary and joseph live there, or travel there?

B) king herrod died in 4 BCE while there is no record of a census happening until 6 CE (10 years later)

C) Luke claims that it was mandatory for everyone in the Roman Empire to travel to their hometown to register. but there is no recorded history of anything like this happening ever. it would be like if everyone in the united states had to travel to kansas at the same time to register for the census. it would shut the entire country down for months if not years.

D) Mary did not have to go with him. why would he force his pregnant wife to make such a long journey?

Next...

Mathew states that King Herrod ordered every male under the age of 2 in bethlehem to be killed.

A) there is no other record of this happening. even josephus, who wrote about all of king herrod's atrocities, never wrote about this massacre.

Next...

the Messiah was supposed to come from the lineage of King David

A) Joseph was a descendent of David, but joseph wasn't jesus' real father. god was jesus' father.

B) Mathew and Luke give 2 completely different family trees from david to jesus.

C) Even the people questioned Jesus... Still others asked, "How can the Christ come from Galilee? Does not the Scripture say that the Christ will come from David's family and from Bethlehem, the town where David lived?" -John 7:41-42
04-28-2010, 01:42 PM
Frank Sobotka

People who wrote the bible didn't know, they lived atleast 100 years after jesus.

Therefore allot of Jesus' story was made using the prophecy's in the old testament.
04-28-2010, 02:12 PM
Sir Artsdradamus

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikke

People who wrote the bible didn't know, they lived atleast 100 years after jesus.

Therefore allot of Jesus' story was made using the prophecy's in the old testament.

exactly. i was trying to bait zook in but you ruined it. in micah, it says that the messiah will come from bethlehem, but neither mark nor john ever mentions that jesus was born in bethlehem. neither does paul ever mention this in his writings that are in the new testament.

most bibilical scholars believe that whomever wrote mathew and luke realized that in micah, it said that the messiah would come from bethlehem, and even though jesus wasn't really born there, they made up their own story so it would follow the prophecies of the old testament.
04-28-2010, 11:37 PM
TheBoarzHeadBoy

Look at it this way. A lot of the bible doesn't make sense. Skip to the anecdotal quotes on how to live your life. Ignore the rest. Jesus doesn't matter. But whoever wrote down "his" words said some interesting stuff. It's up there with Socrates, Confucius, Sun Tzu, and Ze Dong. (Mao was a joke.) Some people have some really interesting ideas of how the world works or should work, and as intellectuals we have to read these ideas and at least consider them.
04-29-2010, 12:54 AM
zooruka

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

1. Mathew 2 states that Mary and Joseph lived in Bethlehem and Jesus was born during King Herrod's reign.

It says they where in betlehem it doesn`t say they lived there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

2. Luke 2 states that Jesus was born in bethlehem because joseph and mary went there to register for a census.

yeah what is your question ????

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

A) did mary and joseph live there, or travel there?.

travelled there and while there gave birth to jesus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

B) king herrod died in 4 BCE while there is no record of a census happening until 6 CE (10 years later).

there where many herods (there was a herod in the time when john the baptist and jesus was fully grown men) and what facts are you relying on to say the census never happend ?????

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

C) Luke claims that it was mandatory for everyone in the Roman Empire to travel to their hometown to register. but there is no recorded history of anything like this happening ever. it would be like if everyone in the united states had to travel to kansas at the same time to register for the census. it would shut the entire country down for months if not years..

Again what is your proof that it never happend????? also israel is a small country so it isn`t that hard to get around and there would have been alot less people than like in america today !!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

D) Mary did not have to go with him. why would he force his pregnant wife to make such a long journey?.

because they had to be registered together since she was going to become his wife.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

Mathew states that King Herrod ordered every male under the age of 2 in bethlehem to be killed.

A) there is no other record of this happening. even josephus, who wrote about all of king herrod's atrocities, never wrote about this massacre..

Josephus was born in 37 ad which was after Jesus had completed his mission and he died in 100 ad...so you while josephus is an excellent referance for jewish history in the 1 century, it doesn`t mean he documented eveything that happend in that time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

the Messiah was supposed to come from the lineage of King David

A) Joseph was a descendent of David, but joseph wasn't jesus' real father. god was jesus' father.

B) Mathew and Luke give 2 completely different family trees from david to ?.

Yes joseph was decended from king david and yes he wasn`t Jesus real father, but in lukes account it gives marys geneology and that is used by some to claim Jesus` link to king david...but in my personal reaserch (that you won`t find in a christian theology) I have come to believe that both mary and joseph where not Jesus` biological parents....because Jesus says himself in the gospels that he is not a decendant of david, so by making this statement he is effectivly saying that neither mary or joseph are his biological parents, but rather why they call Jesus the son of david and why Jesus himself says he is the offspring of david in revelations and appears to contridict his earlier statement that he himself is not a decendant of david, is because when Jesus is called the son of david or the offspring iof david, it implies that he is a king that will replace david as the king of the jews...now as you know the only people who can be kings are direct decendants of the original king, so Jesus by being annoited by God to be king of the jews, is in effect like a relitive of david or opspring of david because he has inheritaed the kingship like he was one of davids direct blood reletives, even though Jesus is not a blood relation to king david at all, he is like his son/reletive because he is the new king.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

C) Even the people questioned Jesus... Still others asked, "How can the Christ come from Galilee? Does not the Scripture say that the Christ will come from David's family and from Bethlehem, the town where David lived?" -John 7:41-42

Jesus was born in bethlehem and so did come from bethlehem but lived in nazerath after returning from eygpt...Its like where ever you are born is where you are from, but if you move you are still from where you are born but you grew up in such and such a place...

peace be with you !
04-29-2010, 06:10 AM
Visionz

Quote:

.....so Jesus by being annoited by God.......

no one annoits God for there is no greater than He. You're aware of this Truth even as your mind and all the lies it has ingested cling tightly to falsehood. Jesus, as great as he was, was not God. Believe in the love, the compassion, and his many lessons but do not believe in the lies they have told about him. You owe that to yourself.
05-03-2010, 12:21 AM
Sir Artsdradamus

Quote:

Originally Posted by prof zooruka

there where many herods (there was a herod in the time when john the baptist and jesus was fully grown men)

yes, but the herod that was written about at the time of jesus' birth in the bible was herod the great. his son herod was the other one around at the time john the baptist and jesus were fully grown.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prof zooruka

what facts are you relying on to say the census never happend ?????

the facts i am relying on are the fact that there are no facts. there is no record in history of a census happening until AD 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by prof zooruka

israel is a small country so it isn`t that hard to get around and there would have been alot less people than like in america today !!!!!

i didn't say israel. i said the roman empire. the roman empire was quite large at the time and there were over 4 million people living there. even if you are only counting the adult men, that's still a lot of people that would have to be accounted for.

http://www.bible-history.com/maps/Ma...e-of-Jesus.gif

Quote:

Originally Posted by prof zooruka

because they had to be registered together since she was going to become his wife.

nope. you just made that up

Quote:

Originally Posted by prof zooruka

Josephus was born in 37 ad which was after Jesus had completed his mission and he died in 100 ad...so you while josephus is an excellent referance for jewish history in the 1 century, it doesn`t mean he documented eveything that happend in that time.

and the gospels were written well after jesus completed his mission also. some of them during josephus' time and some even later. maybe the bible shouldn't be trusted as a good source of jesus' history.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prof zooruka

Jesus was born in bethlehem and so did come from bethlehem but lived in nazerath after returning from eygpt...Its like where ever you are born is where you are from, but if you move you are still from where you are born but you grew up in such and such a place...

exactly. jesus of nazareth. "from" is a synonym of "of". so it's Jesus from Nazareth. why isn't it Jesus of Bethlehem. you said yourself, "Its like where ever you are born is where you are from"
05-03-2010, 03:05 PM
Uncle Steezo

so the bible isn't 100% historically accurate?
05-03-2010, 09:03 PM
Sir Artsdradamus

according to zook it is
05-07-2010, 07:05 PM
Sir Artsdradamus

hey zook, why won't you respond to my rebuttle?
05-07-2010, 07:48 PM
RzaRectum

Allow me to ask a question he ignored on another topic..

Quote:

Originally Posted by RzaRectum

Mark 7:15
There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

So in other words, you're saying you can take a p3n15 in your bum and you won't be defiled. But it's the ejaculate that leaks out afterwards that defiles you..

?
05-07-2010, 07:54 PM
zooruka

^^^^

If you purposely want to take the p3ni5 in your rectum then yes it is a sin, because this comes from your heart and homosexuality is wrong !!!!!, but if you got raped, by somone in the ass then no you would not be sinning (provided you didn`t like it) because in your heart you didn`t want it to happen !!!! .

^^^

TRUTH !!!!!!!!!!!

peace be with you !
05-08-2010, 04:52 PM
zooruka

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

yes, but the herod that was written about at the time of jesus' birth in the bible was herod the great. his son herod was the other one around at the time john the baptist and jesus were fully grown."

http://www.ankerberg.org/Articles/ed.../EC1205W3C.htm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

i didn't say israel. i said the roman empire. the roman empire was quite large at the time and there were over 4 million people living there. even if you are only counting the adult men, that's still a lot of people that would have to be accounted for.

http://www.bible-history.com/maps/Ma...e-of-Jesus.gif

."

Yes but the census was probably taken on a jurisdiction by jurisdiction basis within the roman empire, so logistically it would be possible and then the records would be shipped to rome....not that impossible i.m.o

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

nope. you just made that up."

maybe Joseph just didn`t want to leave mary behind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

and the gospels were written well after jesus completed his mission also. some of them during josephus' time and some even later. maybe the bible shouldn't be trusted as a good source of jesus' history.."

You have to have faith my friend !!!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

exactly. jesus of nazareth. "from" is a synonym of "of". so it's Jesus from Nazareth. why isn't it Jesus of Bethlehem. you said yourself, "Its like where ever you are born is where you are from"

And, when the family returned, God directed Joseph to settle in Nazareth (2:19-23)—and in so doing fulfilled another word of God, "He will be called a Nazarene"

So yes God knew he would be called a nazarene but that does not take away from the fact that Jesus was born in bethlehem but grew up in nazereth...so people just assumed he was born there because he came from there, but he was really from bethlehem.

It was like tupac ( for lack of a better example) born in east but lived in the west coast so most people assumed he was born in the west coast, but dude was really a new yorker, because he was born there.

peace be with you !