Ikon the Verbal Hologram vs. Vinnie Paz

On the very first JMT album (Pyscho, Social) he was straight up Ikon but on Violent by Design he was a cross breed between Ikon & Vinnie Paz..... Regardless on Visions of Ghandi, Vinnie Paz sounds completely different than he did on Violent by Design. I mean lyrically wise it was hard to top Vinnie Paz on Violent by Design but it would have been another thing if his voice sounded the same, but his lyrics took a big fall off after Violent by Design. Is it because Vinnie Paz put on so much weight over the years that he has lost his voice or what? I know emcees tend to fall off over time but it just seemed like Vinnie Paz feel off hard, like he is a completely different emcee after Violent by Design. My friends saw them when Violent by Design first dropped in 2000 and they said Vinnie Paz was just as big then so it's not his weight but what do I know...... For example Sean price's voice sounds different know but he still kills it. 50 Cents voice sounded way different on Get Rich or Die Tryin than it did on the mixtapes. Thoughts?????

ikon

also to add. the last real good true Ikon/Vinnie Paz cross breed verse came on Liberal Arts tracks the Mic Club album w/ Canibus..... not only does Vinnie Paz's voice sound close to the Violent by Design voice but he comes pretty hard lyrically and then once again like I said he kinda shits the bed on Visions of Ghandi.......

Vinnie was dope as fuck on Psycho Social and even fucking better on Violent by Design.


post this shit, he is no way near as good as he used to be(albeit he still does spit dope verses, not as much) his subject matter can come off VERY repetetive, whereas rappers like GFK, who Vinnie Paz has respect for, shares some subject matter(guns,drugs) with Vinnie but keeps it fresh

PEACE

You only have to look at Vinnies verse, compared to GZA's verse on their collabo track, if it was Psycho Social/VBD Pazmanian Devil he would have fared better, but he didnt, and GZA merked the track

I don't think Vinnie at any stage could have fucked with GZA's lyrics tho;P

peace

It's the alcoholism, all of it.

The weight gain, the lack of focus and variety in lyrical content, the change in voice, all of it can be attributed to his rampant alcohol abuse.

I still happen to dig Vinnie's subject matter and vocal delivery, but I can see why other people might not enjoy it as much as they did the Ikon days.

I think little by little he's improving as far as broadening the topics he touches on.

He's started to tackle more personal subjects and human rights issues over the last couple of years.

He's also getting better from a technical standpoint, he's coming with more witty and well-placed punchlines, a better approach to stream of consciousness rhymes, as well as a better narrative/storytelling style on occasion.

It seems to me like the threadstarter has been listening to a lot of JMT/AOTP lately, which is a good thing.

I'd urge you to watch the Divine Fire DVD, if you already have then revisit it.

You'll see just how prevelent a role alcohol plays in his daily life.

There's a scene where he's in a hotel room in Denmark crackin a bottle of Grey Goose @ 7am.

You hardly ever see him on the tour footage on the DVD without a drink.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Divine_Complex

It's the alcoholism, all of it.

The weight gain, the lack of focus and variety in lyrical content, the change in voice, all of it can be attributed to his rampant alcohol abuse.

I still happen to dig Vinnie's subject matter and vocal delivery, but I can see why other people might not enjoy it as much as they did the Ikon days.

I think little by little he's improving as far as broadening the topics he touches on.

He's started to tackle more personal subjects and human rights issues over the last couple of years.

He's also getting better from a technical standpoint, he's coming with more witty and well-placed punchlines, a better approach to stream of consciousness rhymes, as well as a better narrative/storytelling style on occasion.

It seems to me like the threadstarter has been listening to a lot of JMT/AOTP lately, which is a good thing.

I'd urge you to watch the Divine Fire DVD, if you already have then revisit it.

You'll see just how prevelent a role alcohol plays in his daily life.

There's a scene where he's in a hotel room in Denmark crackin a bottle of Grey Goose @ 7am.

You hardly ever see him on the tour footage on the DVD without a drink.

---

I actually did watch the latest dvd from JMT. he dranks wayyyy to much. believe I like to drink but only socially these days. All that alcohol is not good for you and can catch up with you.... everything in moderation. If Vinnie Paz were smart he would change his lifestyle a little such as drink less alcohol and eat healthy and workout. Sean price just lost a bunch of weight. I Vinnie Paz has enough money, he could easily afford a personal trainer, and he seems athletic enough to play sports. in the dvd he says he likes being an executive producer more than an emcee and I have heard his solo cd. He's definitely still a decent emcee, his voice just sounds like shit compared to before

servants was a crazy album.... conceptually... lyrically.... musically... high end underground heat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

vin has changed a lot...

i remember when son was skating around philly, copping trees, spitting about crop circles....

you aint gonna see vinnie skating nowhere...

i like what divine said... vin is a drunk muhfucka...

early paz had the patterns, the shot out of a cannon delivery, energy level...

but paz has developed a certain matter of fact bluntness.... where hes spitttin right from the chest!!!!!!!!!!!!!



i copped his recent solo... shits hard...

emcees with longevity.... often go through certain trasnformations....

whether its conceptually, lyrically, or vocally... things change!!!!!!!!!!!!

and let vin worry about his own problems son, youre not gonna be the one to help him, you aint no fuckin life coach, play the sideline!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you sittin here talkin about, sean price recently lost weight... the fuckl?!!?!?!?! you a fan of p's music or physique!?!?!?!?! why you even up on that!?!?!?!?!!?

vin needs to hire a personal trainer?!?!?!!?!? why dont you break the jump rope and medicine ball out and meet him at a show!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"looks athletic enough".... COT DAMN SON... a NO HOMO couldnt save that... you could have had your dick in a dimepiece when you said it, and itd still sound GAY!!!!!!!!!!!!

vin probably could cut down on the gun talk...

but honestly... son WILL pop someone trynna get his... and he doesnt spit the standard "grip a nine and pop it" bullshit, hell talk about a g-36 melting your wig!!!!!!!!

servants might of been his best performance IMO... that album covered the map, the meta-physical science, tough talk, real life shit, he found a balance there!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by angry!

servants was a crazy album.... conceptually... lyrically.... musically... high end underground heat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

vin has changed a lot...

i remember when son was skating around philly, copping trees, spitting about crop circles....

you aint gonna see vinnie skating nowhere...

i like what divine said... vin is a drunk muhfucka...

early paz had the patterns, the shot out of a cannon delivery, energy level...

but paz has developed a certain matter of fact bluntness.... where hes spitttin right from the chest!!!!!!!!!!!!!



i copped his recent solo... shits hard...

emcees with longevity.... often go through certain trasnformations....

whether its conceptually, lyrically, or vocally... things change!!!!!!!!!!!!

and let vin worry about his own problems son, youre not gonna be the one to help him, you aint no fuckin life coach, play the sideline!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you sittin here talkin about, sean price recently lost weight... the fuckl?!!?!?!?! you a fan of p's music or physique!?!?!?!?! why you even up on that!?!?!?!?!!?

vin needs to hire a personal trainer?!?!?!!?!? why dont you break the jump rope and medicine ball out and meet him at a show!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"looks athletic enough".... COT DAMN SON... a NO HOMO couldnt save that... you could have had your dick in a dimepiece when you said it, and itd still sound GAY!!!!!!!!!!!!

vin probably could cut down on the gun talk...

but honestly... son WILL pop someone trynna get his... and he doesnt spit the standard "grip a nine and pop it" bullshit, hell talk about a g-36 melting your wig!!!!!!!!

servants might of been his best performance IMO... that album covered the map, the meta-physical science, tough talk, real life shit, he found a balance there!!!!!!!!!!!

---

sounds your the one thats gay.... vinnie paz should have hit you over the head with skateboard back then. thats all you get from me, i've been on this forum wayyyyyyyy to long to let a loser like you make me type anymore than this next word........

Forgive angry's transgressions, he tends to go Full Retard most of the time

i stopped following them a while ago.....

i was a huge fan of psyco social and violent by design. remarkable rap......

violent by design i wasn't crazy about.....stoupe was basicially the reason i listen to that album.....the beats i LOVE....

i haven't bought an album since though.....

i like that whole family....ill bill sabec red outerspace and all them.....

are they still making any quality music?

like i said after visions of ghandi i haven't really heard anything else...

I can't talk too much shit about someone being an alcoholic, I'm one myself.

I can see the signs of it and the toll it takes on a person because I'm on the same road.

I agree with angry!, Vinnie is still great.

And Servents was definitely JMT's best album post VBD.

I even like A History Of Violence for what it was, Monolith is a fuckin banger.

I think Season Of The Assassin is sick as well, the only track I could do without is the one with Paul Wall.

I read an interview with Paz recently where he stated he was eating better and getting in the gym and boxing a little, so I think he's working toward a more healthy lifestyle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Divine_Complex

I can't talk too much shit about someone being an alcoholic, I'm one myself.

I can see the signs of it and the toll it takes on a person because I'm on the same road.

I agree with angry!, Vinnie is still great.

And Servents was definitely JMT's best album post VBD.

I even like A History Of Violence for what it was, Monolith is a fuckin banger.

I think Season Of The Assassin is sick as well, the only track I could do without is the one with Paul Wall.

I read an interview with Paz recently where he stated he was eating better and getting in the gym and boxing a little, so I think he's working toward a more healthy lifestyle.

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yeah he needs to. your only here once. Theres a time to do things that you want to do but then theres a time to do things that are best for yourself and for your body. It's Vinnie Paz's life, he can do what he wants and I know he will but I just would love to see him doing better for himself and who knows it could help his mind and who knows go back to that Ikon the Verbal Hologram dope shit from Violent by Design. where did you read this interview and when?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LiquidSwords32

where did you read this interview and when?

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ihiphop, it was like a month or two ago.

I was linked to it on another forum, I'll see if I can find the link.

He also makes mention of a new JMT album coming in the near future.