Human Evolution Theories

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Originally Posted by Legato

What caused that evolution to occur?
can being in the presence of another life form cause an evolution to take place since that could contribute to enviromental stresses?
in other words, if mammals came into prolonged contact with a human like species could that have made it evolve into the walking primate?

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that my friend is totally plausible.. as long as if these early mammals were influenced in some sort of way that their genetics reflected this change.

for ex.. if early mammals had the privledge of meeting up with human aliens that are already bipedal and then they thus imitate the bipedal walking because they see it as beneficial to life on earth.. and this leads to bipedal walking mammals on earth.. its possible.. but there is no proof for this.. but anything is possible

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Originally Posted by Sweet6

For the masses who use god as an explanation for their existence; try taking it to the second step...OK, here's the question...Where does god come from? Oops, right back to square one eh? In simplifying your existence to explain why you're here, you've actually complicated the matter, but you chose to stop there because God is all you need to know...no need to think further.

At the beginning of your sentient god's existence, how did he answer the following question to himself, "hmm, why am I here, where did I come from?". Perhaps he explained it in the same manner you have...ahh, a never ending loop with no beginning...I see, it's all clear to me now...god is hogwash. Life isn't a dress rehearsal, this is it...heaven, hell and purgatory are all to be experienced in your lifetime...live life to it's fullest now, for when you die you won't have the ability to ponder why you were wrong...there is no afterlife, there is no god.

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this is what is known as the "First Cause" postulate.. i have never heard a creationist answer to it to this day :)

The question doesn't need to be answered if you don't believe in a god

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Originally Posted by Legato

What caused that evolution to occur?
can being in the presence of another life form cause an evolution to take place since that could contribute to enviromental stresses?
in other words, if mammals came into prolonged contact with a human like species could that have made it evolve into the walking primate?

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as of today.. the data that suggests why tetrapods became bipedal is due to the evolution of color vision.. coupled with a change in diet, coupled with a change in geopgraphy..

if a creature can stand up for short stints and reach apples in the trees and possibly walk while holding them, these gives a tremendous survival advantage compared to other creatures that cant do this.

it happens over a long period of time.. bipedalism is both a learned behavior and biological behavior.

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Originally Posted by Sweet6

The question doesn't need to be answered if you don't believe in a god

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i agree, but it would seem to me that those that do would be curious enuff to ponder this question... but most just simply blow it off by saying.. "oh, god is god.. there was no beginning to go"

but we know thats just foolishness in thought

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Originally Posted by My First Timbs

as of today.. the data that suggests why tetrapods became bipedal is due to the evolution of color vision.. coupled with a change in diet, coupled with a change in geopgraphy..

if a creature can stand up for short stints and reach apples in the trees and possibly walk while holding them, these gives a tremendous survival advantage compared to other creatures that cant do this.

it happens over a long period of time.. bipedalism is both a learned behavior and biological behavior.

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how would color vision aid to upright walking mammal?
the rest of it i understand, kind like when people do trick with there dogs to make them stand on hine legs to grab something. eventually a dog can learn to balance and walk further distance like that or use it to aid in a situation to get something they can tell is out of reach.

That would be total ignorance. Some of my friends are religeous and it makes talking about serious matters not fun. The answers to my questions are always "God wants it that way, God works in mysterious ways"

Brainwashed.

color vision is important to a creature that is mainly an herbivore.. being able to see colors (ie wghich fruits are riper than others) is a great benefit...now reaching for them was the next step

pretty much :)

Yes !

if the selection pressures (environmental stressors)
are strong and consistent enuff (ie we do it all the time with our seletive breeding and bacterial vaccines)

i guess.. i never watched star trek but what u describe is an example of "artificial selection" and thats what im talking about.. but keep n mind.. the star trek blob was a single creature.. "artificial selection" only works on a population of creatures that keep reproducing

because remember. the key to it working is genetic variation/diversity

Yes !

what u need to understand is that thre basically are no limits to what can happen as long as a creature reproduces by sexual means (sperm meets egg and in the process an exchange of genetic material and information between 2 parties) thus creating genetic diversity.

hypothetically, i cat (which is a tetrapod mammal) could be selectively bred in such a way that u decrease its body weight.. the next step would to be to apply environmental stressors to increase forearm strength... the next step would be to decrease hind leg muscle mass...... the next step would be to modify the forearms so that they somewhat develop an enlarged skin appendage between the abdomen and elbow

if this could be successfully carried out u could have a flying animal whose ancestor was a pet cat.

its not that hard to imagine.. i mean after all.. modern bats are nothing but modified tetrapods that were once regular walking mammals.. its all the same thing!

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Originally Posted by Legato

Evolution is like god or some shit. but how can you do that? how would you make something just sprout wings and fly even going through evolutionary steps?

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wiat a sec.. dont over simplify it!

dont make that mistake in your thinking!

it wont be a creature sprouting wings! it will only be a creature with modified arms that are able to serve the function as wings.

remember.. bird wings are nothing but modified dinosaur arms

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Originally Posted by Legato

what could be something that could make a creatures arms change to be more wing like?
like say you have a food source over wide gap the only way to reach it would be to fly.
the situation would breed the need to have wings to get to the food source.
but wat could actually start the process of the animal changing?

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nahh thats not how it would work exactly

lets say there is a wide gap or cliff like u say that has precious food.. and u are a 4 legged animal.. u try to jump and u fall to ur death..its just simply too far..

but then the rest of ur population keeps reproducing and lets say that the males who get all the females just so happen to have the strongest arms...thus all of the offspring have this gene for strong arms..

1000 more years pass and by chance there is a genetic mutation that adds an extra strip of muscle and flesh between the arm and body.. this creature finds that this xtra flesh allows it to jump higher and further..

the females of the colony notice this and all flock to mate with this creature. luckily this mutation is inherited in all the babies... leading to a population of creatures who can now jump real high and far (becaus ethe extra skin coupled with
the increased arm strength acts sort of like a parachute and makes them "glide" in the air a bit.

1000 more years pass and eventually thru natural selection, the creatures that have the fleshier arms and strongest arms live longer and have more babies than those who have weak arms........

now the stage is set for an evolutionary event to occur!...more time passes and eventually the creatures discover that if they move their arms back and forth a bit while jumping that they can somewhat glide alot longer and farther!

they keep doing this and it is a learned behavior passed down (in adition, the males that can do this the best get all the ladies and thus pass their genes on)

the end result years later are a population of flying mammals that are now able to reach the other side of the cliff.

exactly !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

now ur gettin it

and this is where people start to get upset.. because they dont want to think about complex things arising from random luck!

they want life to be more "special" than that.. when in actuality there is nothing really special about life (speaking objectively)

..now in that example we just went thru.. u must realize that it took so long and was left to luck because it was natural! (not controlled by anything other than mother nature and random forces)

however, if lets say, humans were there to help guide this evolution .. it could occur much faster (because we would set out with the specific intent to increase their arm strength.. etc)