Cosign. This album has a harder sound to it than 8D.Quote:
Originally Posted by CEITEDMOFO
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Cosign. This album has a harder sound to it than 8D.Quote:
Originally Posted by CEITEDMOFO
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jin10304
Exactly, I got what they were doing with that track. It definitely felt like something ODB could've been on. Idk why it reminded me of a mesh of Child's Play and Old Man, just something fun and funky, not to be taken too seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by 5th state
I can understand if people were thrown back by the Disney-esque vocals on Miracle, but it doesn't kill the entire fucking song. I personally love it, I have no problem with Disney, Pocha muthafucking Hontas had some bad ass songs, can't front. And that's not Nathaniel, it's a guy called Will who works a lot with RZA. It's well sung and the lyrics is tight. It's minor key, it's dark, it's 4th Disciple shit. Like someone said before, if Blue Raspberry sung the shit we'd be all over it. Me personally, I would've called Blue and Tekitha as well, I love their shit, but I'm sure RZA had his reasons. On OATIS we used Blue, Tekitha and one other vocalist. But i honestly don't get the hate.
You can't convince me that Wu-Tang Clan has ever made a wack album. The problem is, they have done so much incredible shit that a dope album, or even an averagely dope album is labeled a failure. You either produce greatness or it's a fail. It's like Jordan scoring 20 points instead of 50. It's still better than most players, but because it's Jordan it's considered a bad game.
That's the gift and curse of Wu-Tang I think. You can't tell me 8D was wack, nor Iron Flag and definitely not The W. The problem is that expectations are so high when it comes to the Clan, that 90% of the time you're going to have to deal with disappointments, and then months later the albums start growing on people and start making more sense. Not everybody, but a significant amount of nay sayers.
Trust me, I'm one of yall Wu-Tang die hards, as I have always been. But the thing I'm starting to see reading everybody's opinions and reviews, is not that it's bad album at all, it's that maybe it was the wrong album to drop at this time, and that its different approach is not easily accepted because of the negativity that surrounded the making of the album. If this was a live type of album Wu-Tang had made in between while working on a sample based album, nobody would've been mad. Matter of fact, everybody would've been jumping on the positive aspects of this album and not so much on the negative. But because that wasn't the case, because it could likely be the very last Clan album, because it sounds different (certain songs), because it was flaunted by negative press and stories, it became something you looked at differently. But in all reality, the album is great and far greater than a whole bunch of shit released this year.
Wu-Tang Forever is perfect as is.Quote:
Originally Posted by JZA/Jordon
https://twitter.com/RZA/status/540290958206586880
From RZA's Twitter:
Quote:
When I first made albums they were so aggressive & vulgar that my now ex wife wouldn't play it in the house. This made me rethink my energy
Miracle is definitely a good track. I like the singing on it and never had a problem with it. In fact it adds to the song in my opinion. The whole joint itself is on some visual storytelling ish and I think it was pulled off well. Ghost's verse is like the conclusion/ending of it.
Same with Mistaken Identity. I like the intro and it's a very well produced/put together track. It feels complete and you gotta remember that tracks from the Wu's earlier days also had the instrumental continuing for a while after the actual verses were done.
In my opinion this was the kind of album RZA was trying to make with 8D but on here he managed to improve upon that formula. In fact overall this is a harder album than 8D and I personally like the fact that there are multiple concept tracks on here.
Well said Ringz, I personally was seeking an album produced in this manor. why? Because I am always reminded of being a punk in Jr. High school and now I have a great career, home and family. A Better Tomorrow personified. The Clan has grown and specifically the mother fucking Abbot who is the heart and soul of something that is a part of me. I appreciate the direction RZA has taken and am loving the result. It's a soulful record of many different emotions.
I know how I FELT the first time hearing this record, taking an amtrak from Penn Station to DC watching the sun rise over Manhattan and Staten Island at 6am this past Saturday.
PEACE
I agree with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
I had no expectations for the LP and I honestly enjoyed it. I don't like some of the hooks but I honestly like most of the beats. It's nowhere near AOTY or better than other dope releases this year though but I'm cool with that
If this was say another Wu-Tang album I think people would like it more. I guess that part of the fan base is too stuck on recreating a 1993 sound in 2014 but personally I like RZA's beats these days, there's a lot of subtle stuff happening in songs you pick up on after a few listens.
This time next year throw up a poll and see the difference in opinion between now and then, I reckon it'll be a bit more definitive than either hate or love
GZA said, "Galactic matter served on a graphic platter."
Holy Saint Dominic!
Love the beat and lyrics on this track, the singing doesn't bother me much, but it should've been Tekitha of course. The part I hate is when the beat changes to some electronic rock on Ghost part...because he had a sick verse and I loved the beat.Quote:
Originally Posted by fortyglock
I agree with most of this, good points. I love Miracle and think the singing actually fits and the lyrics are good but knew a lot of people would just hate on it. It's a great song.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
What makes the fact that the last few albums were even good at all amazing(i think the only problem is that they each have a song or two that makes you scratch your head) is that they can't seem to do anything without acting like asses and fighting. If they could ever get together and work somewhat harmoniously it could be really great. As it is, they come out with reasonably good albums out of disasters haha.
:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by CEITEDMOFO
the original Preacher's Daughter song was in Pulp Fiction, Quentin probably gave him the idea to flip it. I like how Cypress Hill did it on Hits from The Bong
Gza uses tons of outer space rhymes, I doubt dark matter will ever come out. Considering he used the rhymes on ABTQuote:
Originally Posted by War and Peace
What the Wu should have done (and possibly still could do) is announced two albums. The first, A Better Tomorrow, following RZA's vision followed by a second sample based album with more Clan input on musical direction. Then if RZA wasn't able to bring the right type of music then draft in more 4th Disciple, etc.
Ghost mentioned something along those lines in a recent interview, he said he was looking forward to the next album after ABT, sample based shit where they can go all in. I don't know if he was meaning OUATIS or a new joint but it sounded like there was more to come.
I've been listening to the album in the car and I still can't make my mind up on it. For me the album is split in to three catagories... Dope tracks, Dope tracks ruined by hooks or distracting sounds effects, and flat out corny tracks. Felt, Mistaken Identity, Heater, Crushed Egos, Necklace and Never Let Go are dope as fuck!!! 40th Street Black is strange but Meth and U-God flow their asses off on it!! Miracle is dope other than the ending transition bit. Keep Watch, Preacher's Daughter, Ron O'Neal, A Better Tomorrow and Reunion are just meh to me. Pioneer The Frontier would have been ill if there weren't so many layers of different effects distracting from the MC's verses.
In one of the threads about Ghosts 36 Seasons, one of the Revelations said this...
"The challenge production-wise was to create an undeniably banging hip hop album that stayed true to the sound and feel of sample based, drum machine created classic hip hop, without the listener ever being aware of or distracted by the fact that all of this music was created by real musicians, playing real instruments."
This is my main problem with ABT... I'm very aware that it's not sample based. The beats, instruments, effects on a lot of the tracks are very distracting and make it difficult to listen to.
The one thing I'm happy about is that this has reestablished 4th Disciple's working relationship with the Clan. That can only be a good thing and I hope to see his beats featured on more of the generals solo joints.
Peace!
I think the main problem everyone has is those gay sung hooks. A compromise woulda been to leave all the beats the same but get rid of those hooks, did nobody try to compromise at all with RZA? If the clan had it their way, the beats woulda been less experimental and without the hooks. RZA's way (im guessing) was as released with experimental beats and those hooks. Get rid of those hooks and try to please everybody, no?
I enjoy singing on hip-hop albums when done correctly. Listen to fuckin Young Fathers "Dead" or any of The Roots last few albums, i know ATISYC didnt get as great of reviews as others but listen to "Never", "Black Rock" etc and see how perfectly the singing mixes. The singing of the singles of ABT were pure clean cut, safe, day-time R&B / pop hooks that your granny can enjoy. Nothing edgy, different, powerful just really cheesy and gay as fuck.
The beat change ups for different verses annoys me as well. On one hand it breaks the boring typical same loop over and over again for a whole tracks. On the other hand it sounds very calculated and mechanical, "oh heres Ghost, lets give him a different beat". Music is supposed to sound effortless, natural and like it all flows together. Dont change a beat if it isnt needed, and i do like a change up in beats but only when it feels natural and when it adds something to the tracks.
yo , that mistaken identity ending sounds like StreetLife vocals....shit is mad cool album the drum patterns that rza rae shit the part the beat just goes on, fav tracks are ABT and Ruckus in B Minor..Masta Killa murks it..Method Man deserves loyalty award dynamic emcee Wu Brotha #1
You might be on to something here. Good call.Quote:
Originally Posted by human torch
Possibly, but on the other hand compromises might have been made that we are unaware of. First off, there is the possibility of more than 16 finished songs being considered for inclusion on the album. Was it just RZA who decided which ones made the cut, or could say for example Rae have vetoed something? I know RZA & Rae let us know that RZA played him some beats in Rae's place or whatever and then Rae picked the joints he wanted to jump on (same with Ghost.) But who is to say him or Ghost didn't say 'RZA dude, don't put that corny beat on the album, period'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Durag
Then there's the fact RZA listened to some feedback he got off (I think it was) Ron O'Neal and cut out some of the sung intro which could be heard on the first version of the single.
We really have no idea whether and if so how many compromises were made.
In other words, maybe RZA originally envisioned (even) more sung hooks and beats people don't really feel.
i have no problem with the live instruments and drums, i think what might have ruined it a bit is RZA went back and reprogrammed every song, so it doesn't sound as natural.
The Roots have been doing live instruments forever, and no one cares. but i think its because they are all in one room making a song together and it sounds like everyone is on the same page.
live drums can be a great thing but the key is being there when its done and not rearranging things so it stay natural over the drum rolls and fills.
i still like the album quite a bit and it gets better the more i listen to it. sounds great when im driving to work. i have gotten past all the singing hooks, they tend to fade out fast enough that you don't notice em as much.
Maaan, it's been a loooong time I haven't been on this forum, but reading all this thread made me post shortly.
ABT is really an enjoyable album and a very good one. I can't understand the hate at all! I'm listening to Wu since the 90s and I'm no way disappointed by this album. I'd rather be more disappointed if they released imitations of "enter the wu 36 chambers" and proving to be a letdown.
ABT has a really special sound overall. Production is amazing! I admit, I'm not so impressed lyrically by the 9 MCs, they're not so hungry anymore and lyrics are not revolutionary, but they're at least over average hip hop nowadays. Method Man and Deck shine on this album, also Masta Killa and GZA.
Personally I can't stop listening to "Ron O'Neal", amazing beat and great overall mixture.
"Never Let Go" is one of the best beats I heard in recent years...can't understand the hate.
Rucks in B Minor, Necklace, Felt, Hold the Heater are pure Wu songs with clean and modern sound.
I love "Miracle".
Only skipable tracks for me are: Wu Tang Reunion, A better tomorrow, We Will Fight.
So for me there are at least 8 songs that I can listen to a LOT and I'm happy with them!
Just enjoy the music and stop comparing! :cheerlie:
I don't have a problem with people hating on the album. There is nothing wrong with wanting a group to come with an album with the sound that made you a fan in the first place. That said, I don't like the fact that people keep saying Wu fell off or don't have it anymore. Listen to the lyrics and delivery and concepts, from a rapping standpoint the album is impeccable. What people don't like is the beats and hooks. Guess what, that's not proof that Wu is bad now or even that Rza can't produce more. It's not a matter of whether they can still put out quality material. It's a matter of whether or not you still like their style. I'm convinced now more than ever that if they wanted to release an album with tracks like Necklace, that the album would be everything we all wanted. I'm also convinced now more than ever that we will never hear anything like that ever again.
peace fam. i read a few posts where some members said they had edited out the nathaniel vocals from the tracks. can anyone of you please hook me up with a link to those tracks or can someone please pm them to me ?
ABT keeps growing on me but i am starting to want to hear the non nathaniel versions. thanks fam. bong bong
Am I the only person who enjoy's what Nathaniel brings to these tracks? Dood is smooth and I hate RnB
U R not the only person. But I like RnB. Droppin my review in a few days...Quote:
Originally Posted by JZA/Jordon
Is that the real Lizard King??
I catch myself singing his hooks to myselfQuote:
Originally Posted by JZA/Jordon
8 Diagrams shits on this album. Album is just wack and clearly RZA rushed it.
Abt > 8d
ABT > 8 Diagrams and 8 Diagrams was dope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
I agree. The reasons for so many back n forth critiques is the structure of some of these songs. RZA is trying to gain mass appeal with these RnB hooks. That kind of comes out of left field when RZA was the First to say "this hip hop this isnt RnB." But I digress, people grow music becomes more polished, taste changes. etc...
Good Album. Different Album./ It sounds so much different on my system at home compared to head phones.
anyone read that recent article that called 8d the long lost wu masterpiece? i co-signed every word. the author said that was rza's "acid samurai" phase, which is iiillll, b. i have to agree here. the only song that makes me go "meeeeehhh. maybe not." is the 'gently weeps' one, for the same reason a lot of these new songs dont do much for me: the incredibly generic [it's almost a joke to call it 'live'] live instrumentation. it is so flat, so bland and doesnt move. it is like it is behind glass, and cant be expected to move the listener, either. (somehow, "reunited" had the opposite effect. hmmmmm)
i still think they've all got it in them. ghost might need to go on vacation in 2015, recharge his batteries. he sounded stretched thin on this (but was somehow still good). his new album sounds so good, and shows how the wu style can be done very effectively using a band.
i would even say rza still has it in him. unless "pioneer the frontier" is the best 'classical rza track' he has in his arsenal, then I'm wrong. when 8d came out, i wondered why he didnt use all the shit (except for the intro to one song... from afro samurai. he needs to stop playing to his weaknesses as a musician and as a producer and go back to playing toward his strengths, and doing very interesting things with samples; whether they come from instrumentation he's put together, or from older records, i dont care. now that this abt thing has fucked off out of his system, maybe he can read the writing on the wall and go back to doing what it is that people love (or loved) him for.
also, hopefully this will 'iron flag' a few dope releases from meth, rae and others, to prove something to their audience. people have been excited about new wu stuff for awhile in recent years. i really hope this album doesnt kill all that.
I want to read this article about 8D throw a link up. I went back and listen to it the other day and enjoyed it a lot more than when it first dropped
ok - i'll look around for it
by the way, nothing i said above applies to "mistaken identity". all the way down to the jackhammer in the background that somehow pops up toward the end of the song as the guy is singing. it played in the background in the intro for a reason, but it coming back in the song later is just one of those weird rza moves that you have to love him for.
i have to disagree with a few things that cilvarings said there. if we're both thinking of the same person, that's not who is singing the cringefest on "miracle"
yep i agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWuCepticon
"More than The W or The Pretty Toney Album or No Said Date or the instrumental version of the Ghost Dog soundtrack, 8 Diagrams stands as the great lost Wu-Tang masterpiece. It’s dark and woozy and all-over-the-place. There’s no center, but there are so many magical moments"
http://www.stereogum.com/1722423/alb...m-of-the-week/
I agree, Sparrow,about the instrumentation. I feel like it has limited RZA's sound more than it's expanded it.
I'm going to start taking about he positives though. Felt is incredibly dope, that's the track I've played the most. Meth sounds great on it. Also Ron O'Neal is really dope too, I don't get why so many people are so down on it. It's a great
mix of that old Wu sound with the new RZA style.
yeah, punch. definitely. felt, ddespite rza's dumb intro, is a real highlight. so is mistaken identity. necklace is dope, but they needed to spend more time on it, putting it together. having that sample interrupt between verses kinda kills the momentum (kind of like the other 4th disciple track on there errrmmm..... what's it's name??) crushed egos sounds like every other fuckin thing adrian young has ever done and it just zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. again, the revelations show how cool it can sound. they do it right. adrian young places unnecessary restrictions on his own shit out of pure fetishization of an era and its technology. just because you choose to lock yourself within a certain 6-year period doesnt mean you have to lock your songs into a less than 6-instrument producdtion and into the same 2-3 chords. damn! but whatever, raekwon sounds good over that track and breathes some life into it.
to me, ron oneal and ruckus are a little too similar. ron probably doesnt deserve the hate it gets, but it was the second fuckin nathaniel song in the row people were exposed to, and people were starting to get a little worried
I think most people on here agree that the main fault with Ron O Neal is the hook. The actual verses are cool and the beat is aite as well.
I agree about the vocal sample interrupting the flow of Necklace, especially since the "brother" sounds so good with the beat behind it before GZA's verse. Otherwise that song is near perfection, the twinkling piano that comes in every now and then really puts it over the top.
I like Crushed Egos, it would probably sound even better if it wasn't surrounded by similar sounding beats,same goes for Hold The Heater. Both Rae and RZA sound great on it. It also contains the best hook on the album imo.
I like Ron O'Neal better than Ruckus. Not that Ruckus is bad but it's really all over the place. I don't even mind Nataniel's hook on Ron O'Neal.