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Do I believe God punishes people? Of course its in the Bible. This isnt my opinion or anything. In the Bible it talks about him punishing Adam and Eve, punishing Sodom and Gomorrah.....he does it ALL the time. How could he be a just God if he doesnt punish.
How could he be just God if he does punish? :learning:Quote:
Originally Posted by LikwidSwordz
Presumably she'd use the same method she'd use to discern truth.Quote:
and how are you going to know if the contradictions are true?
are you going to decide from your own knowledge of Arabic and the Science of Quran study?
I have no reason to speak soft to you unless I so choose because you didn't approach me with anything resembling a peaceful nature. Funny how you seem to forget that. Friendship? I never claimed to be your friend to begin with and truth be told there's no reason for me to start now. You expect me to believe that a person I've only talked to a few times and in those few times made it abundantly clear that their only purpose in talking to me was to try and stir up something has my back and will never betray me? Your density knows no bounds does it? The only reason you started ending your posts with 'Peace' is because you saw that I wasn't going to take take any of your shit as easily as some others might. Hence calling me 'mean' and the like.Quote:
Originally Posted by LHX
1500 years 50 years, whatever, you still can't say that anyone has met the challenge. So while you twiddle your thumbs about a time span, consider that I'm talking about something completely different. Unless you wilfully decided to ignore THAT too.
My theory is on thin ice and it just broke? No, you, like most other people in your position can't face the truth and I'll prove it when I get to that comical Tao Te Ching remark.
I said THE EARTH....can you see it?? THE EARTH. Not THE SURFACE OF THE EARTH. THE EARTH as in THE ENTIRE PLANET. You know, that big CIRCLE-LIKE THING that's just after Venus and just before Mars?? I know it's difficult, especially for one who willfully skips over things due to the inability to deal with them, but to save some form of face, PAY ATTENTION.
Laws of physics? And just when did that become relevant to the conversation?? You're good for bringing things out of left-field when you have no other legs to stand on I see. Well, your precious laws of physics are broken time and again in fields that you'd rather not observe for fear of being wrong and having to admit that you were misled and loved it every step of the way.
Scriptures aren't mere books. Only to the people who would rather not take on such responsibility and bring about pseudo-philosophical theories that do nothing but make them feel better about their cowardice. You say 'scare tactics'. Which again proves that you would have to have faith to believe such things and you don't. The idea of punishment scares you, therefore, you consider it a con as opposed to a pro. You think it's profound, intelligent or difficult to say, "What if it's not true?", no, what scares you and people like you is, "What if it IS true." Because if it is, all you will have done is dummied yourself down into the negative side of the very thing that you used to mock at.
The Tao Te Ching contains the same lessons as The Qur'an?? You haven't read The Qur'an cover to cover. It's that simple and it shows from your statement. It has similar principles as far as self-serenity and social peace, but that's it. The reason why the Tao Te Ching doesn't resort to 'scare tactics' is because IT'S NOT SCRIPTURE. IT'S A PHILOSOPHICAL TEXT. LAO TZU WAS NOT A PROPHET, HE WAS A SCHOLAR. I suppose next you'll ask why Confucius never wrote anything about crime and punishment too right?? Philosophical texts have nothing to do with the Divine Law as a whole because that's not their purpose. Or did that escape you as well?? Fear tactics?? Again, your only problem with that is either your own fear, or your own stupidity. Either you're too afraid to think that maybe everything you've done, good, bad and indifferent is all waiting to testify for or against you, or you'd rather pretend that making yourself feel better by not thinking about it all together will somehow change something in the long run. Either way, it boils down to inability to cope with such things. Fear. Period. You'd rather say, "Why scare us." when you know damn well that the child who is told not to do something and does it anyway, once punished, will think twice about doing it again and will be a better person for it in the future. There's a very difinitive line between discipline and abuse. People like you can't even accept discipline, which in truth is designed to make you a better person overall. You'd rather moan, bitch and complain about the rules. Brats are the same in every walk. The language of The Qur'an doesn't matter, so long as you pick up a copy with the arabic text contained in it. The original recording was in arabic and it has not been touched. English translations vary by certain words, a 'you' instead of a 'ye' and the like, but on the whole, it's the same in every single copy.
The creation of an invisible entity with the suggestion of human attributes?? So, you're saying that all who believe in God are believing in something that was dreamt up by people. Plus, the people wrote the scriptures. Yet you say you try know know and understand God in every walk of life or with every breath you take or whatever blatant lie you typed earlier for the sake of putting on a spiritual sided mask. I pity you. I can't even laugh at you anymore. You don't know what the hell you believe in from one moment to the next. You say what comes to mind based on the paragraph at hand. That's why you're asking so many questions because it keeps you from having to face yourself.
The Tao Te Ching does NOT teach the same lessons as The Qur'an, Gospels, Psalms, Torah, or Proverbs. You'd know this if you had actually read the above mentioned texts in their entirety, instead of glancing at a few passages here and there and convincing yourself that you'd read it all. IF you even did that much.
I'm typing without an audience in mind, because, again, pay attention now, I DON'T NEED OTHER PEOPLE DO VERIFY ME. I do it because I damn well feel like it. Masturbation?? And here again you prove that there isn't a mature bone in your body. No, masturbation, you poor deluded creature, is when you approach someone who wasn't talking to you, with the sheer purpose of disturbing the peace, try to stand by a point that is only held together with spit and a 4 leaf clover, defend the point with contradictions and little to no common sense, and when you're met with direct opposition, clam-up and call the person 'mean', all for the sake of an imaginary status and the attention of other people. Savvy??
Still won't turn your back on me? Then I feel sorry for you. I hold no alliances with you and haven't taken any oaths that would warrant me having your best interest in any situation. If we do laugh together, you'll laugh first and I'll laugh second. Meaning I'll probably be laughing AT you and not WITH you.
Venture outside?? Explore different places?? Some say that's what man was born to do?? So, now it's about what may be man's destiny and purpose. Who was this destiny given by?? Lao Tzu?? The people who created God and wrote the scriptures?? If you believe man has a purpose, then you'll have to backtrack and re-consider something like EVERYTHING YOU'VE TYPED so far. But you won't do that, because this current statement is just another one of your famous contradictions. Made up on the spot in lieu of the desperate need to be important.
Started with you agreeing with me?? Again, your density knows no bounds. Unless you went back and changed the words, I don't have to go back, because your entry was, "Don't know what? That man is limited by his imagination?? You want to see me create a fly? Let's finish tearing down this society and go live in a garden for a few hundred years. I'll create a bunch of flies. Even let you name some of them." Now just where in the vast, barren wasteland of your mind does that look like agreement with ANYTHING I said??
Me and Quest are two different people. It's not funny at all really, because he obviously cares enough to take the extra step. That's my brother and I applaude him for his ability to do so. Also, you didn't approach him the same way you approached me. I, on the other hand, don't give a rat's ass about you. Yeah, peace is the better way and I stay like that by and large, but I don't take anybody's shit, especially when they take the good time to bring it to my door. Savvy? So in YOUR case, there's no reason why I should go that extra mile. What, because you're a moderator? I'm a New Yorker and we're famous for our ability to thoroughly not give a damn. Quest's approach is his approach and my approach is my approach. Deal with it. Maybe you'll think twice the next time you try to come at me stupid, but I doubt it. Maybe you should take notes on how NOT to contradict yourself because all you end up looking like is a semi-educated fool.
We are in this dirt together. Wow. How profound. Have you also heard the fable called, "What goes around comes around", preceeded by the award-winning short, "No pain, no gain"? There was all of NO POINT in what you said. None. We may be in the same dirt, but I clearly understand the situation better than you do. That's all there is to it. If you understood, there wouldn't be gaping holes in your approaches and reproaches.
So take your guesses somewhere where the more shallow of thinkers are more likely to say, "Ohhh, that's deep." and stop trying to convince me that what you're saying makes ANY kind of sense. A guess remains a guess no matter how pretty you try to make it.
"I treated the leper and I cured him. I treated the fool and he caused me distress. Silence is the best reply to the fool."-Isa (pbuh)
So, regardless of the half handy response you come up with, I'm going to give you the best reply because you've proven that you're a fool.
Lol......what? Do you know what punish means? Justice? Eye for an eye?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charging Soldier
Punish- When you punish your kids you spank them for not understanding what they did was wrong to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by LikwidSwordz
Why's everyone here always trying to teach me English.
If that version differs by two verses, then it was probably a mistake. I've seen a couple of them myself. I mean as a whole, the original arabic text is the same in all of them. Those who've actually read it, know that it tells you that, because it's the last revelation to mankind, it will be protected from the forgeries that the previous scriptures fell victim to. It also challenges the whole of mankind to produce just one chapter the like thereof that is in The Qur'an. It's not numbering I'm speaking of, it's the fact that the answers people call themselves seeking are right under their noses. It was a response to the statement or false belief rather, that all scriptures were written by men. If that were really the case, the challenge in The Qur'an would've been met by now. As a book written by men, why would it say, "Woe unto those who change the word of God for a trifling price. Woe unto them for that which their own hands have sent forth." speaking of both The Gospels and The Torah?? A person who is doing exactly what their being warned against and at the same time telling others not to do it for safety purposes makes no sense on this level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Fist
Its nice to see that 11 pages in and the tone of the thread is very much similar to that of conflicts in the world new and old regarding this stuff. Maybe religion, at core level, is just a good reason to have a fight. Interpretation is a very fickle moral standpoint..
Shropsher, what exactly is the challenge of the Quran? That sounds interesting. I read what you wrote, but what exactly is it claiming that men can't reproduce? Is it referring to the art of it, the composition, some mathematical arrangement or what?
There are many challenges set forth in The Qur'an. The two I'm speaking of are these;Quote:
Originally Posted by Os3y3ris
The challenge to create something in the same likeness as God Creates. Now, in The Qur'an, we're told that when God decrees something, he only says unto it, "Be!" and it is. We as humans can create. Civilization wouldn't exist if we couldn't. But none of us can create like that and that's a reminder. To anyone who thinks that their money, fame, fortune, physical strength, mental strength and spiritual strength that thinks they have control over anything.
The second challenge is to produce a Surah (chapter), like that of The Qur'an. Many won't tell you, because many don't know, that The Qur'an is an affirmation and a continuation of the scriptures that went before it. Since those have been tampered with and this is the last revleation to mankind, it's protected. Therefore, it's not possible for someone to re-write this one as they've rewritten it's predecessors. It's more like a challenge of God's Power really if you look at it. He's basically telling you, "Go ahead, try it with this one. I dare you."
Shropsher - have you ever written a story?
how similar is the relationship between you and a fictional character that you create
to the relationship between you and the most high?
what is the difference between those two relationships?
in between your ears is a space where you can make things 'be' just by virtue of saying it so
the same way i 'am' because the most high said it so
a figure you create is as eternal as you are
you are as eternal as the most high is
a lot of people do not recognize their creative capacity because it is something so simple and natural that they cannot fathom that it might be a divine property
as kids we use it all the time, and left to our own devices, thats what we would spend the majority of time doing - creating
i am being dead serious
i dont want to spar with you
you obviously are not dumb and i have respect for the thoroughness with which you present your point of view
i will re-read your post above later this evening and have a more detailed response
Peace
Dude. he said, "How can He be a just God if He doesn't punish?" Justice requires punishment, so God wouldn't be just if He didn't punish those who habitually do wrong with malice and forethought. You can actually take the parent/child analogy and apply it to us and Him. If all of us were called to account for the things we've done wrong wilfully, no one would be here. So, there's discipline. You may get sick, lose something you really love, or sustain an injury as a result of what you may be doing that isn't the right thing. In the case of nations, we've all read or heard about Sodom and Gomorrah, but very, very few have actually seen the remains of those cities. Trust me, it's fantastically horrifying, but considering what happened before it's destruction, they brought it on themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charging Soldier
this thread got totally out of control...
let's try to keep it respectful guys
Thank-youQuote:
Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher
I'm sorry, I just have a different philsophical view point. Your not talking about a just God, your talking about a wrathful one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher
Actually i've never read about Sodom and Gomorroah, is that about the city of homo's? The reason why there aren't remains of those citites is probably because they weren't there. If they were there, the Earth has a way of cleansing it's self. Nothing humans build last forever.....except maybe styrofoam.