Anyone got the cd booklet? Is there a pic of the clan?
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Anyone got the cd booklet? Is there a pic of the clan?
^ all pictures from the booklet can be found in good quality @ Discogs:
http://www.discogs.com/Wu-Tang-Clan-...elease/6365968
i honestly don't understand what most people expect from the Wu.. to me this is a real solid album to say the least, there's a couple of clunkers, some corny lines and some beats that just don't work but overall this album gives me a good feeling, and to me it's just a blessing to be able to hear the entire Clan rhyme over new RZA and 4th Disciple tracks. i've seen mad comments that call this album out like it's the worst piece of shit of all time, i'm seriously baffled...
to me the LP flows very well, RZA's production is definitely on point for the most part, a lot of interesting ideas that's for the most part executed very well.. a few banging cuts that for me brings back the grimey classic Wu ("Crushed Egos", "Pioneer the Frontier", "Necklace"), some ill use of live instrumentation coupled with RZA's diverse sounds without straying too far from the tried and tested formula, and a bunch of great verses from the Clan (INS on "Miracle", GZA on "Necklace", Raekwon on "Crushed Egos", etc, etc). to me this is much, much closer to the classic Wu sound than "8 Diagrams" ever was (although as you might know i LOVE the production on that album, though vocally it was lacking unity)
what's funny is that the long time fans of an artists often seem to be super critical.. check out DJ Premier forum where a lot of people are shitting BIG TIME on the new "PRhyme" album, while people on here use that as a measurement for what RZA should strive for
I'm baffled how one could find this to sound even in the same ballpark as the classic Wu sound or formula. It's so far removed it may as well be a different genre. As evidence - even their own members don't want to take credit for this album's sound. All I expect from a Wu album is them to make Wu-Tang music.
But I digress, I'm glad this album can be appreciated.
Proves how much you simply underestimate the wide range of influences that go into the Wu sound. RZA in particular, of course, is intereseted in much more than narrow forms of hip-hop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumm Ra
The question at the end of the day is not whether it's Wu or not Wu ('cos it clearly is the same people on 36 and on ABT), the question is whether it's good music or not. And that will be revealed through time. For example the number of people enjoying 8D is increasing, not decreasing.
No, it doesn't though. I know very well. And what does this have to do with my quote? I said it in no way follows the classic Wu-Tang formula - do you disagree? I know Wu have many influences, much the same as mine actually, that doesn't mean they don't have a sound that they're famous for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gitche Manito
Let me put it another way. If Wu-Tang did a 100% autotune album, I'm sure there are people who would like it, because there are some people who like stuff like that. It would still be Wu-Tang making music, but it wouldn't be what they established themselves as.
If you like ABT for what it is that's great, I personally don't. I'm not trying to shit on it all the way, it has a couple good tracks but I'm just trying to make a point.
its definitely not that classic "Wu" sound. anyone trying to defend that it is, would be wrong. it has elements of it that show up on certain tracks though like Necklace or Crushed Egos, even Hold the Heater.
but its been known for a while that RZA isn't on the same page as Wu fans. the Clan also is going a different direction musically. but they all show up and play there part on ABT.
I just don't think they are all where they were 20 years ago, so we will never see that untamed hunger. and that's really what the root of it. as fans that's what we want to hear
exactly what i meant, there's definitely elements of the classic Wu sound in here on songs like "Pioneer the Frontier" and the tracks that you mentioned, but of course as an album it doesn't sound like the original round of solo albums. but it does have some Wu trademarks, the hooks on tracks like "Ruckus in B Minor" are very Wu-esque for example, and i like the mix of socio-conscious lyrics and street/punchline stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE MASON
whatever it is, it's a good album to my ears and i'm happy with that. it's not mindblowing but it doesn't tarnish the Wu-Tang legacy the slightest in my book (though that doesn't seem to hold true for the majority unfortunately).
GZA is the MVP on this for me btw, he killed whatever he jumped on. really brought the energy he lacked on a lot of "recent" projects such as 'Pro Tools'
My daughter sums up Miracle with this quote.
"Daddy, Why did wu-tang hire "Boys Who Cry" boy band to sing on Miracle."
I almost fell out laughing so hard.
This album is different that's for sure, it sounds t
Rushed,.
I don't understand that obsession for the "classic wu sound". It seems to me a lot has happened since the first round of solos and it's time some people in here catch up to the plot.Quote:
Originally Posted by claaa7
^^ not only that but the classic Wu sound has barely been sighted since about 1996. Forever wasn't exactly the classic Wu Sound.
The whole "Wu sound" thing has become a generic label with no real meaning.
Quote:
Wu-Tang Clan: A Better Tomorrow
A requiem for rappers passing in the night
BY KAHRON SPEARMAN, 4:20PM, WED. DEC. 10
Wu-Tang Clan: A Better Tomorrow
Being an admirer of Staten Island rap collective Wu-Tang Clan feels analogous to the constant rekindling of a relationship. Friends remind you that your time together has long passed expiration, but you fall back into it anyway. Of course, it doesn’t work. Really, what did you expect? Welcome to A Better Tomorrow.
Rick Rubin-assisted “Ruckus in B Minor” begins the Dec. 2 release with the bang of a pump-action pellet gun, GZA’s scientific verse cutting through during the first beat switch. It sets up the listener for RZA’s sonic theme of love action production, better suited to a film soundtrack. Discouragement starts on the very next track, “Felt,” an uninspired faux drum & bass blend.
“40th Street Black/We Will Fight” plays like a high quality demo RZA and Mathematics decided to stop pondering over and left as is. Method Man’s voice, a constant on the album, shines on “Mistaken Identity,” which evolves into an instrumental jam of septic proportions. Raekwon’s solo cut, “Crushing Egos,” appears to be RZA’s peace offering following years of contention over money and production quality.
In fact, Raekwon only appears on cuts fitting of his personal sound. The other members try snapping off on everything with varying degrees of success. Then there’s the general inability of everyone involved to suspend disbelief, as is the case on “Hold the Heater,” wherein RZA laughably claims the group can still keep “rugged” and “raw” over softer-than-Charmin production.
Worst offender, “Preacher’s Daughter” suffers from horrible execution in all directions. That’s in addition to containing the weakest hook on any Wu album after the atrocity of the preceding “Miracle.” Worse still, as with any doomed relationship, some good times are sprinkled in.
The last third of the album, starting with schizophrenic 4th Disciple production “Pioneer the Frontier,” offers what the album should’ve been. Standouts “Necklace” and “Ron O’Neal” would’ve been outstanding support tracks on prior efforts.
Troubles reappear on the title track, with its gross over use of the Harold Melvin & the Bluenotes sample, and continue through the end. The saccharine sweet positivity, for both their longevity and hopeful resolutions of world ills, remain exhibit A in the gruesome wreckage presented the listener. The most appalling attribute of the project, aside from the obvious dysfunction, is that RZA has lost his previously uncanny ear.
Once unstoppable, he’s become rap’s version of cruiserweight Roy Jones Jr., the slower, hittable version of an all-time great. General, and perhaps inevitable, decline also shows on the rest of the clan. In the cases of Ghost and Rae, their disinterest is palpable.
While making the album, Raekwon went public on both RZA’s control issues and the severe lack of production quality, even occasionally boycotting sessions. The outcome proves his apprehension was based in tark reality. Wu-Tang is broken.
A Better Tomorrow isn’t only the sound of people grown apart. It’s the soundtrack for ships passing in the night – from opposite sides of an ocean.
http://www.austinchronicle.com/daily...tter-tomorrow/
I'm not sure who did the drumming on "never let go" but it's on some next level production. I need to look at the booklet. . Not sure if rza's drum game has advanced that much or if he got some professional drummers.
Wu-Tang Forever is part of what ppl consider "the classic Wu sound". 1993-97, is often the time period that is given that phrase. Because none of the albums during that era really sound anything alike (as in repetitive), yet they still carry a sound that became famously known as the "Wu-Tang sound". Forever is sort of the last chapter of that sound. Everything after that, for the most part, seems to be either a different variation/experimentation of the Wu sound, or a throwback, trying to recapture it's original vibe.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hound
24k copies sold in the first week. They must be slutted.
I would say Silent Weapons and Heavy mental ('98) both still very much carried that Wu sound. With Sunz album the fading into a newer sound started. Supreme Clientele had the best known link to that 93-98 era on the majority of songs. Cuban Linx II was in between old and new, but well executed due to the way the album was arranged.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWuCepticon
Ghost Dog was the "Wu Sound" too IMO
That's really just the golden era of Wu-Tang though. I see the "Wu Sound" thrown around a lot but not many Wu-Tang records sound a like, probably 36C and RTT36C being the closest and that's why RZA was so door because all of the shit was different specific for the artist. The Clan albums are all different.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWuCepticon
To me the Wu-Sound is whatever a fan makes of what Wu-Tang means to them since that's why I see it thrown around a lot but people differ on what they call it. The Wu sound to me is 36Chambers
Yeah exactly, that's kinda what I mean. After Forever, It was the albums from Killarmy, Priest, Sunz, Cappa etc that heavily maintained the Wu sound. I know because those were the albums that sustained me when i was feenin' for that Wu sound the most during that 98-99 period. I should've clarified, I meant as far the 9 generals go, it somewhat dwindled during that time. Because the second round of solos didn't hit as hard. So for them, Forever was sort of the last chapter of that definitive sound. It wasn't until Supreme Clientele was it fully recaptured.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
I like Ghost's verse on Miracle. Throwback.
"Ghost Dog was the "Wu Sound" too IMO"
^ Yes it is, I agree.
Yeah, Return To the 36 definitely sounded the most like Enter, and fittingly so, since it was "Dirty's version" of it. When you say the golden era of Wu though, that has to encapsulate those 7 albums from 93 to 97. Because that's when their sound was born and evolving (through the solos), and capped off when they came back together as unit on Forever. And that was the last truly great Wu collective album imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hound
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hound
The Wu sound for me is fully encapsulated from 36 to Forever. Because like i said, when it started with 36, it continued with the solos. Because if you say its just with 36, then thats basically saying every album after should sound like that first album. Which is why, it was brilliant that RZA was able to accomplish experimenting with the sound and giving it new life with each album...without it ever sounding redundant. At the same time, keeping true to what made their debut compelling.
And it starts with the generals, so any affiliate albums after or during that period is maintaining the sound, that's how I see it.
Wu-Tang's still good, but they fell off when they started worrying about what people thought about them.
They used to be like...
"What's up. We're the Wu-Tang Clan. Yeah, it's an Asian name, fuck you. We like obscure kung fu movies, and comic books, back when liking comic books wasn't cool. We speak in weird slang over weird beats and are not dumbing it down for you. We hate R&B and don't care what everybody else is doing. Meth smokes weed. RZA's the Abbot. Ghost is weird and abstract and emotional. Inspectah Deck name-drops philosophers like Socrates. Rae's hungry. GZA's awake. ODB is alive. U-God & Masta Killa & Cappadonna are great in small doses. You don't like it? Fuck you."
Now they're like...
"What's up. We're the Wu-Tang Clan. We want everyone to like us. Here's a song for the ladies, here's a song for the club, whatever you want - WHAT DO YOU WANT?! We like popular television shows and movies. We speak in typical slang over typical beats and are willing to dumb it down for you. It's all part our to plan to slowly turn into The LOX. Maybe we'll throw in a kung fu sample or a comic book reference, but that's not really our thing. We love R&B - every album has to be full of pretty R&B hooks, and one of us made a whole R&B album. We care deeply about what everybody else is doing - we're even open to dubstep remixes. Meth HATES it when you bring up weed. RZA's the leader who nobody believes in or wants to follow. Ghost is normal and direct and workmanlike. Inspectah Deck name-drops popular TV shows like The Big Bang Theory. Rae's well-fed. GZA's asleep. ODB is dead. U-God, Masta Killa and Cappadonna are now the stars, and get the most mic time. You don't like it? Let us know what to do, we aim to please!"
lmao, can't say I agree with everything but at the very least this was an entertaining read and there are some valid points in there. But I guess it's not a bad thing to embrace the fact that some things do change over time. You don't want to wake up in 1993 every day.Quote:
Originally Posted by FakeAlias
http://realitysandwich.com/wp-conten.../groundhog.jpg
this has never not been the caseQuote:
Rae's well-fed.
Excellent reviews! Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by 5th state
this album really keeps drawing me back... they should've put "Execution in Autumn" on there though, a lot better than "Wu-Tang Reunion". the latter is a really poor choice for an album closer too, don't know what they were thinking there. they should put "Never Let Go" after "Ron O'Neal" and close the album with the title song instead imo
The track sequencing is flawless imo
I agree with that. Maybe this has been discussed, but was that Ghost verse the final verse of the album because he wasn't on 'Life Changes' maybe? Coincidence or not I love that 8D and ABT both sorta end on that same note.
Another thing I apologize asking about if its been talked about(tried to skim the whole thread), but didn't RZA(or someone) say there was gonna be a bunch of 'surprises' in store for ABT? So, what were they? The ODB snippets on B-Minor? A chorus from Street? Would have loved for some of the other affiliates to have been on the album
I remember ghost was fully on board with this album. That's why he was on family reunion their first single from like 2013 or early 2014 I forget. But he was chillin with rza and going on game shows and shit then fat raekwon opened his mouth and Ghost listened to him and didn't want as much involvement.....damn shame
I'm still heavily enjoying this album. Got 36 season as well but I am still deep into ABT.
I'm still regularly listening to this. The tracks I tend to skip are We Will Fight, Ron O Neal, Wu-Tang Reunion and Preacher's Daughter (I think this track is cool but I need to be in a certain mood to listen to it).
Felt, Mistaken Identity, Hold The Heater, Crushed Egos, Miracle, Pioneer The Frontier, Necklace, A Better Tomorrow and Never Let Go are all in constant rotation. Ruckus In B Minor is cool but to me that's let down by a few subpar verses.
This^^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by JZA/Jordon
i'm enjoying this a lot too, right now it's by far my most played album.. i tend to listen to it straight through too, not really skipping anything but if i just want to play a few tracks i find myself return to "Miracle", "Never Let Go", "Pioneer The Frontier" and "Hold the Heater"... the tracks that don't do much for me are "40th Street", "Wu-Tang Reunion" and "Preacher's Daughter" - they are all listenable though
i got to say that "Ron O Neal" has grown like crazy
I've been hearing a lot of people say that about 40th street but its actually one of my more liked tracks
its more of a straight up hip hop beat than most of the album, like a 2014 version of a 80's whodini beat with those kicks
ron Oneal got that same girl vocal from odb's " black widow"
Girl vocal sample??? I don't recall a girl vocal sample on Ron O'Neal. Need to throw it on again and listen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Illmatic Hispanic
Do you mean from the original Kiss of a Black Widow track or the Black Widow Pt. 2 track from Digital Bullet.
The sample in Black Widow Pt. 2 is from the same track that RZA used to sample 'Tearz' from 36 Chambers and 'Stimulation' from Tical. I think the singer, Wendy Rene, just passed away a day or two ago.
Peace!
Also, I dunno if this has already been mentioned (only skimmed the last few pages)...
Meth seems to be censoring himself on this record. He doesn't say fuck, mutha fucka, bitch, shit or anything like that. I noticed he said 'ish' a couple of times instead of shit and he said 'trick' on one track instead of bitch.
He does say piss a couple of times and nigga I think (not sure) but I did get the feeling that he was trying not to cuss throughout the record.
He also did that Westwood Freestyle a few years ago and said "No curses" before he spat his verse so maybe that's his thing these days.
Peace!
Right in the start when meth starts his verse, very well could be, it was much more noticable on the first mix of Ron that was releasedQuote:
Originally Posted by Illmatic Hispanic