Russia invades Ukraine - international tensions abound - Dooch gets the kiss of death

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Originally Posted by HANZO

The importance of the Stans in central asia is mainly natural resources. There's a shitload there and the countries are relatively easy to control due to being full blown dictatorships.

One thing to note with Russia is population. When the Soviet Union collapsed Russia's population was 150m people. Today it's around 140m, so it's stagnated but something to note is that the percentage of muslims within the country has increased. Now somewhere between 25-30% of Russia is Muslim and this is going to increase as years go by. This eventually is bound to become an issue, 20-30 years from now Muslims from all these different ethnicities at this rate will make up half the Russian population. If your peddling a Tsarist Russia narrative it won't work if a bulk of your population isn't even Russian.

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The natural resources in central Asia are vast. Isn't this also where the Soviets got there resources for going nuclear? China is pretty happy with still having Tibet I believe, due to that country being full of resources.

Are you sure the Muslims are going to increase? Because going by the news, it seems there has been nothing but prosecution of Muslims in Russia. After the invasion of the Ukraine, people where immediately talking about the prosecution of minorities by the Russians. It also reminded me of the Chechens, which are primarily Muslim and have been at war since the 90's.

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Originally Posted by Hal Incandenza

@ Dooch : no, we don't want to be 'ruled' by the US government. But if given a choice between power blocks we'll go for the US even though obviously there are some problems there - hell there are problems anywhere. but trust me you'd feel the difference in your day to day life if Putin (or Xi) was in charge of the US

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In all fairness, I think Europe & the EU have been looking a lot more towards themselves, and way less overseas. Ever since Trump got elected. That is not to say that Europe did not have their own internal struggles and polarizations. Right wing parties have been coming up all over the continent. Germany, Sweden, UK, French, Poland, Hungary, Netherlands. And the narrative has becoming more and more disrespectful. The EU was slowly falling apart, and after Brexit their have been small movements within various countries to leave the EU or the Euro. (Within the Netherlands there were groups calling for a Nexit, and going back to the Gulden. Mind you, most of the people calling for this often go on holiday in EU countries and are mid to low income. They would be hit hardest.)

Besides this there is of course NATO. But also in this party, Trump heavily damaged the trust towards the US. Europe will not that easily be leaning on the US anymore.

And what Hal said, you would feel the difference immediately. Just look at how the opposition is taken care of in Russia, or how Belarus diverted a commercial flight from Greece to Lithuania on a fake bomb threat. Just so that they could arrest journalist Roman Protasevich, a vocal critic of Lukashenko. We have been seeing the other side of the curtain on a regular basis.

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Originally Posted by zooruka

I hate these proxy wars now either fight properly or shut up. Also the US fighting for Ukrainians isn’t political suicide because the west for decades has been ranting and raving about these bogie regimes but yet when the opportunity arises to confront them directly they chicken out? These evil regimes need to be dealt with sooner or later, otherwise they become more intrenched and there will be even bigger problems to deal with in the future or you will keep getting more Ukraine’s or Taiwan’s? Sanctions don’t work and hoping the people rise up and overthrow the government is lame IMO?

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Go fight for Ukraine boy. Save the world. They need you.

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Originally Posted by IrOnMaN

The US is not in a position to go to war with Russia. No one's dying for a Ukraine, period.

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Uncle Sam is always ready and willing to fight Commie Nazi’s lol. I wish George W and Cheney were still in power?

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Originally Posted by IrOnMaN

What makes you and Australia so special?

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Rugby League

Don Bradman

Hugh Jackman

Four n Twenty Pies

Anzac Spirit

The Baggy Green

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Originally Posted by zooruka

Uncle Sam is always ready and willing to fight Commie Nazi’s lol. I wish George W and Cheney were still in power?

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No. You don’t need your government to tell you to fight. They want volunteers. Go.

The Russians have begun taking cities in the south, I guess plan A is to block Ukraine's access to the black sea entirely. Though movement in the north is slow, in the South Russia is making progress. I think the Russians expected the same thing that happened in the Crimea to happen, where the Ukrainian army pretty much switched sides. A chunk of Ukraine's naval force joined Russia during that time for example. Moscow didn't expect the Ukrainians to unite like this and it's the reason why the war hasn't gone as initially planned.

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Originally Posted by Jet Set

The natural resources in central Asia are vast. Isn't this also where the Soviets got there resources for going nuclear? China is pretty happy with still having Tibet I believe, due to that country being full of resources.

Are you sure the Muslims are going to increase? Because going by the news, it seems there has been nothing but prosecution of Muslims in Russia. After the invasion of the Ukraine, people where immediately talking about the prosecution of minorities by the Russians. It also reminded me of the Chechens, which are primarily Muslim and have been at war since the 90's.

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Central Asia has vast amounts of oil, gas and minerals. Kazakhstan was Russia's primary nuclear testing ground.

As for the muslims in Russia, it ain't just Chechens. Historically the Chechens and other muslims in the Caucuses have rebelled against Moscow. Those from Dagestan, Karachay-Chekessia and many others, these are all different ethnicities. Tartarstan is one of the wealthiest republics in Russia and it's predominantly Muslim, made up by Tartars but is a key part of Russia instead of being rebellious like Chechnya. So while some Muslims in Russia get persecuted others don't. It's the Muslims in the Caucuses whose population is rising because they are much more devout and having plenty children. Kazakhs, Uzbeks and a majority of Tartars aren't that devout.

EU should say no to EU membership for Ukraine and Georgia instead of making promises now that will (a) take years to ratify into actual membership treaties (15 plus years normally) and (b) give these possible member states (vain?) hope so early on in the process

the vetting process is there for a reason : environmental, financial, anticorruption and human rights standards need to be met in order to fit in with at least the base line of the EU

the EU and its member states should definitely continue to supply arms to Ukraine but it's not really helpful that each individual member state is now listing its grocery story list of army supplies lol. there's an overabundance of statements against Russia. I'm pretty sure Putin got the message, he's gonna do him regardless but at least he knows we're not gonna lie down and take an ass fucking

in other words, any kind of support should be supplied except for membership cards (NATO/EU). other individual (trade / protective) treaties can be negotiated with both Ukraine and Georgia now or preferably when the smoke clears

there's no need to escalate further. just deliver a steady supply of arms to Ukraine, take care of the refugees and keep on blocking Russia economically to the fullest

when the war is over, whether won or lost, EU will need the remaining buffer states in their current geopolitical function


btw there is also the question of what will happen with all the army supplies that are being sent to Ukraine, after the war is over, regardless of the outcome. there's no predicting the future here but obviously whenever large amounts of weapons are sent into disputed territories that comes with its own problems after the conflict is over. guess we'll deal with that whenever the time is right

The problem is when you think past any conceivable future scenarios that might be okay for a short period, theres just more problems to deal with, and they don't diminish the potential for a full scale war someway down the line either.

The sanctions have the potential to backfire as well, once the Kremlin is economically weak and imposing martial law on its own citizens. They'd be dug in at that point.

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Originally Posted by zooruka

Uncle Sam is always ready and willing to fight Commie Nazi’s lol. I wish George W and Cheney were still in power?

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You don't understand. Hanzo, Hal, Jet Set said it. Ukraine isn't a NATO member. They're isolated and vulnerable. Russia is one of the world's largest Petro states (countries that have vast amounts of Oil and Gas). Also, Crimea has a water shortage, a shortage caused by Ukraine. Russia wants the water flowing again.

Ukraine has a lot of oil and gas deposits on the western and eastern parts of the country. Also, Ukraine's gulf contains large amounts of oil and gas. Shell and BP cancelled drilling contracts for some reason. So, Ukraine doesn't have the technology, manpower, nor the intelligence to extract the oil they have in their shale deposits. That's a lot of money to leave on the table!

The USA won't get in Putin's way when it comes to oil nor will the world.

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Originally Posted by IrOnMaN

The USA won't get in Putin's way when it comes to oil nor will the world.

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I understand what you’re saying Ironman but sometimes there are more important things than money or business. This is about democracy and human decency, countries like Russia, North Korea, China ect…….Shouldn’t be allowed to get away with this bad behaviour or go around holding the world hostage. Yes Ukraine isn’t a NATO member but this isn’t about that, it’s about putting Putin and the rest of his Commie mates in check so they will think twice before doing whatever they like?

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Originally Posted by zooruka

I understand what you’re saying Ironman but sometimes there are more important things than money or business. This is about democracy and human decency, countries like Russia, North Korea, China ect…….Shouldn’t be allowed to get away with this bad behaviour or go around holding the world hostage. Yes Ukraine isn’t a NATO member but this isn’t about that, it’s about putting Putin and the rest of his Commie mates in check so they will think twice before doing whatever they like?

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I seriously doubt China or North Korea care too much about Putin. China has its own agenda, and they're way more ambitious than Putin

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Originally Posted by IrOnMaN

You don't understand. Hanzo, Hal, Jet Set said it. Ukraine isn't a NATO member. They're isolated and vulnerable. Russia is one of the world's largest Petro states (countries that have vast amounts of Oil and Gas). Also, Crimea has a water shortage, a shortage caused by Ukraine. Russia wants the water flowing again.

Ukraine has a lot of oil and gas deposits on the western and eastern parts of the country. Also, Ukraine's gulf contains large amounts of oil and gas. Shell and BP cancelled drilling contracts for some reason. So, Ukraine doesn't have the technology, manpower, nor the intelligence to extract the oil they have in their shale deposits. That's a lot of money to leave on the table!

The USA won't get in Putin's way when it comes to oil nor will the world.

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Who's buying Russian oil and gas after this? Shit holes like India, Venezuela, Cuba, Nicaragua, North Korea, Africa lol Even the German pussies have been backed in to a corner over Nord Stream 2.

Even the Russian puppet Trumpov is giving up the goose a week after calling Putin a genius lol

Former President Donald Trump described Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine as a “holocaust” and urged an end to the fighting there, in an abrupt shift from his recent praise for Russia’s president.

In an interview Wednesday with Fox News’ Maria Bartiromo, Trump said Russia has to “to stop killing these people” and suggested that a deal could be struck with Russia to stop the fighting.

“We’re watching a holocaust. We’re watching something that I’ve never seen before, the way that they’re going to go in — they’re blowing up buildings with children, with women, with professionals, with people — think of just people,” Trump said.

“They’re blowing up indiscriminately, they’re just shooting massive missiles and rockets into these buildings and everybody is dying.”

“But they don’t respect the United States and the United States is like, I don’t know, they’re not doing anything about it. This is a — this is a holocaust. This is a horrible thing that’s happening. You’re witnessing and you’re seeing it on television every night.”

Trump’s comments represent a huge shift, exactly one week since he praised Putin as a “genius” and “very savvy” on February 23.

At that point, Putin had recognised two separatist regions of Ukraine as independent states, as a pretext for overtly deploying Russian troops into Ukraine.

On the following day, February 24, the limited incursion escalated into an all-out war as Russian forces pushed into Ukraine from multiple directions and bombed major cities like Kyiv and Kharkiv.

Even in his Wednesday exchange with Bartiromo, Trump did not criticize Putin personally.

Trump had criticized the invasion already, condemning it at a recent speech at the CPAC conservative conference. In a series of public statements Trump has blamed the Biden administration for the crisis.

Trump claimed that he could have prevented the war if he were still in office, though has given no specifics on how. Ukrainian and Russian delegations began ceasefire talks in Belarus this week, but no agreements were reached.

Trump’s relations with Russia and Ukraine were a source of enduring controversy during his presidency.

Russia launched a widespread campaign to help secure Trump’s election in 2016, according to US intelligence agencies and multiple independent reports.

Amid unsubstantiated rumors Trump had been entrapped by Russian intelligence, Robert Mueller, a special counsel appointed by the Justice Department, in a 2019 report did not find evidence that Trump’s campaign had deliberately conspired with Russia.

Later that year Trump was impeached for the first time for pressuring Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, to produce dirt on Joe Biden, and cancelling military aid to Ukraine to force Zelensky’s hand. He was acquitted after a Senate trial.

Zelensky has been widely praised for his courage and leadership during Russia’s attack, and in Wednesday’s interview Trump said he had been “very impressed by him” and defended the phone call with Zelensky that resulted in the impeachment.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/t...22-3?r=US&IR=T

rumors that are circulating :

* the Polish government is considering handing out weapons to Polish people who are willing to go and fight in Ukraine (Ukraine has an official foreign legion)

* there are fears that Putin will install martial law in Russia

second rumor seems like a stretch right now. he can still further tighten security, censorship etc. under the 'danger of foreign parties at work in Russia' act (IDK its official name). martial law would help him enlist anybody he wants in the army and he would not be obliged to honor any treaties he signed with foreign nations. not that he is honoring those right now anyway lol