ISLAM...some questions

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Originally Posted by prof zooruka

ATTN: prince rai...please read this post it will explain everything to you.


yes JESUS didnt come to do away with the law that was handed to the jews...he wanted the jews to remain jews and believe in him as there messiah ( which is the fulfillment of the law)...but the laws of the jews was not meant for all mankind only the jews.... all those verses you posted from the old testement where given specifically for the jews...them and them only (not for all mankind)...the reason they are given to the jews only is to prepare the house of israel ...to make sure they was read spiritually and morally to except the messiah.... so in other words GOD was making everything up to his standard for the messiah to come...thats what the jewish religion was made for....for the preperation of the messiah.

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This is addressing another topic which I have accepted. I still maintain the view that the old laws are still good laws for Jesus, but I also understand that Jesus changed the outlook on much of the old law.

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in the new testement..the diciples decided that when it came to converting the gentiles...that they would not have to be subjected to the law of moses and the jews...they where given some simple rules to follow such as... dont eat any animal that has been strangled...dont eat food that has been offered to idols...dont eat any blood...and keep yourself from sexual immorality....those are the only rules given to the gential christ believers...and this is the way GOD wanted it.


peace

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This did not even come close to answering the following request I made earlier

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Please advise me on the following statement of Jesus is the NT:

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39)

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Originally Posted by prof zooruka

prince rai....re read the post above ^^^^^^ i made some changes...but it explains everything.


peace

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i understand and agree with the statements you made.

but i also want the other NT quote to be addressed.

peace

P.E.A.C.E and Blessings...

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Originally Posted by prof zooruka

ATTN: prince rai...please read this post it will explain everything to you.


yes JESUS didnt come to do away with the law that was handed to the jews...he wanted the jews to remain jews and believe in him as there messiah ( which is the fulfillment of the law)...but the laws of the jews was not meant for all mankind only the jews.... all those verses you posted from the old testement where given specifically for the jews...them and them only (not for all mankind)...the reason they are given to the jews only is to prepare the house of israel ...to make sure they was read spiritually and morally to except the messiah.... so in other words GOD was making everything up to his standard for the messiah to come...thats what the jewish religion was made for....for the preperation of the messiah.

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Yeah they were really well prepared. What did they do to Jesus again? :?

http://blog.catholic-convert.com/wp-.../Crucified.jpg

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in the new testement..the diciples decided that when it came to converting the gentiles...that they would not have to be subjected to the law of moses and the jews...they where given some simple rules to follow such as... dont eat any animal that has been strangled...dont eat food that has been offered to idols...dont eat any blood...and keep yourself from sexual immorality....those are the only rules given to the gential christ believers...and this is the way GOD wanted it...he didnt want them to follow the jewish religion because that was made for a specific people and a specific raeson to prapare them to recieve the messiah but since the messiah had come there was no need for them(gential christians) to follow the jewish law.


peace

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...So did the disciples decide or did God decide?

And don't eat blood?

"Take and drink, this is my blood..."

:?

No offence but your religion is a little confusing.

SHEM HETEP

praince rai..... do you understand the jewish religion (laws) where only given for the jews( to prapare everything for the coming of the messiah who would save mankind..GOD had to have a people living according to his standards for the messiah to be sent)...they where never intended to be universal.....GOD chose the jews as his chossen people and said right... through you I will save mankind...but to do that everything must be raedy and perfect for the messiah to come....(because i cant just send him to anyone living the way they want) so he sent the law down to the jews ... so that there would be a race of people who were living according to the will of GOD ...so who by doing that ...would make it acceptable for GOD to send the messiah.


do you understand..????

by you comparing islam to judism ...makes no sense...because islam seeks to impose its harsh draconian laws on man kind...where judism`s laws where set up to pepare for the coming of the messiah ... who would bring the real truth of what GOD want for mankind to reach heaven.... things like "turn the other cheek" "love your neighbour as you love yourself: do unto other as you want them to do for you" this is the real law of GOD ... the other laws ( the jewish religion) where preperation laws to make everything right and acceptable to GOD for him to send the messiah.... but what islam wants to do is replace the teachings of christianity..( the real law of GOD) with those that are like the preperational laws that the jews had...see the jewish law was not what GOD wanted to govern all mankind ( he wanted kindness and love the teachings of christ not harshness and the death penatly) they where only good for the preparation for the coming of the messiah....but islam has taken the preparation laws and is trying to make them superseed that of the real law that GOD wanted wich is what jesus taught...look read this example and you will understand

jewish law (laws passed for the preparation of the people to receive the messiah who will bring the real law which only the messiah would bring).

christianity( the real law of GOD)

islam( copy of the preparation laws to replace the real law which the messiah brought)


undersatnd


anyway

peace

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Originally Posted by prof zooruka

praince rai..... do you understand the jewish religion (laws) where only given for the jews( to prapare everything for the coming of the messiah who would save mankind..GOD had to have a people living according to his standards for the messiah to be sent)...they where never intended to be universal.....GOD chose the jews as his chossen people and said right... through you I will save mankind...but to do that everything must be raedy and perfect for the messiah to come....(because i cant just send him to anyone living the way they want) so he sent the law down to the jews ... so that there would be a race of people who were living according to the will of GOD ...so who by doing that ...would make it acceptable for GOD to send the messiah.


do you understand..????

by you comparing islam to judism ...makes no sense...because islam seeks to impose its harsh draconian laws on man kind...where judism`s laws where set up to pepare for the coming of the messiah ... who would bring the real truth of what GOD want for mankind to reach heaven.... things like "turn the other cheek" "love your neighbour as you love yourself: do unto other as you want them to do for you" this is the real law of GOD ... the other laws ( the jewish religion) where preperation laws to make everything right and acceptable to GOD for him to send the messiah.... but what islam wants to do is replace the teachings of christianity..( the real law of GOD) with those that are like the preperational laws that the jews had...see the jewish law was not what GOD wanted to govern all mankind ( he wanted kindness and love the teachings of christ not harshness and the death penatly) they where only good for the preparation for the coming of the messiah....but islam has taken the preparation laws and is trying to make them superseed that of the real law that GOD wanted wich is what jesus taught...look read this example and you will understand

jewish law (laws passed for the preparation of the people to receive the messiah who will bring the real law which only the messiah would bring).

christianity( the real law of GOD)

islam( copy of the preparation laws to replace the real law which the messiah brought)


undersatnd


anyway

peace

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lol


I already said i understand and accept your points that Jesus would not have taken a radical stance as was taken by the Jews.


LOL, what makes me really laugh is how you will STILL not address this quote for which i will make ANOTHER separate post.

Please advise me on the following statement of Jesus is the NT:

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39)



I even changed the colour if it helps spark ideas...

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Originally Posted by Prince Rai

Please advise me on the following statement of Jesus is the NT:

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39)



I even changed the colour if it helps spark ideas...

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what JESUS meant by this saying was those that follow me will be at odds with those that are around them..( meaning even your own family and freinds) because you are trying to do what is right and they are trying to do what is wrong....

JESUS knows that not everyone will be a follower him and or of GOD....there will be people that dont want to do what is right and they will want to follow there own disires...so they will peresecute you because you are not like them( even your own family)...and as you know that alot of people who are true believers in christ and are GOD fearing are shunned by there families ( as bible bashers and to preachy)...so what JESUS is saying is that if you follow me be prepared for even your own family members ( who are liberal and have no intrest in GOD) to persecute and shun you.



when JESUS said he did not come to bring peace he didnt...the law of GOD as taught by JESUS was intended to seperate the sheep( followres of christ) from the goats( those that dont follow christ)...so when he says i havent come to bring peace what he means is that those who follow me will rebel against the world and those that dont follow me will rebel against those that do follow me...so the wolrd wont be at peace but be at spiritaul war against each other...because you will have to competing forces ( those who obey christ and those who dont) both struggling against one another for there cause....so there wont be peace.




peace

^
good answer...now prince rai...how bout you answer some of the questions i asked you?

still waiting on a few...like why was Mohammed not blessed with hearing Gods voice? when all the other significant (other) prophets were?

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Originally Posted by sarr

^
good answer...now prince rai...how bout you answer some of the questions i asked you?

still waiting on a few...like why was Mohammed not blessed with hearing Gods voice? when all the other significant (other) prophets were?

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lol, "good answer". even if he said "jesus" drank coke you would say "good answer". Given that whatever you two say, you will always concur. I admire that, it's like scout camper brotherhood or something like that.

As for not answering your questions, well I apologise, usually I reiterate my questions to the person several times, in this case three times, to get an answer.

As for God not speaking to Muhammad.

Christians and Jews have to advertise how God spoke to Jesus and Moses, because if they didn't you guys would reject their claim to be divine. The amount of effort those two prophets had to go through to get their point through was ridiculous.

Whose words do you think the Quran were from? Who has the knowledge to put the knowledge and spirit into those verses?

Who at night would pray and pray and meditate to be "one" with God?

Have you heard about "The Night Journey" where God granted Muhammad a vision of audience with God?

Have you ever even read the Quran in FULL?


Night Journey

http://www.change.freeuk.com/learnin...htjourney.html

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Originally Posted by prof zooruka

what JESUS meant by this saying was those that follow me will be at odds with those that are around them..( meaning even your own family and freinds) because you are trying to do what is right and they are trying to do what is wrong....

JESUS knows that not everyone will be a follower him and or of GOD....there will be people that dont want to do what is right and they will want to follow there own disires...so they will peresecute you because you are not like them( even your own family)...and as you know that alot of people who are true believers in christ and are GOD fearing are shunned by there families ( as bible bashers and to preachy)...so what JESUS is saying is that if you follow me be prepared for even your own family members ( who are liberal and have no intrest in GOD) to persecute and shun you.



when JESUS said he did not come to bring peace he didnt...the law of GOD as taught by JESUS was intended to seperate the sheep( followres of christ) from the goats( those that dont follow christ)...so when he says i havent come to bring peace what he means is that those who follow me will rebel against the world and those that dont follow me will rebel against those that do follow me...so the wolrd wont be at peace but be at spiritaul war against each other...because you will have to competing forces ( those who obey christ and those who dont) both struggling against one another for there cause....so there wont be peace.




peace

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So many flaws.

I will address them and discuss with you when I get back home from work. I am late, and I hate lateness.

wow...night journey ey? sounds super gay...umm, i mean fun.

Face it bro...your prophet was a brilliant tacticion, strategist, political leader, manipulator, war monger and deciever. He spread and created a new concept and united the arab lands under one baner within the years to come...but i really doubt he was ever given visions from God...i think he made it all up to create something big, and unite the mid east because they felt like they were being rejected from the popular european Christian club. Kinda cute when you think bout it

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Originally Posted by sarr

wow...night journey ey? sounds super gay...umm, i mean fun.

Face it bro...your prophet was a brilliant tacticion, strategist, political leader, manipulator, war monger and deciever. He spread and created a new concept and united the arab lands under one baner within the years to come...but i really doubt he was ever given visions from God...i think he made it all up to create something big, and unite the mid east because they felt like they were being rejected from the popular european Christian club. Kinda cute when you think bout it

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Lol, super gay huh?

Seems like you don't know what to say or come back with so you deliver a crappy speech about "oh hey bro, super gay huh? yeah, islam is not all that huh?"

Christian Club???

It were the Christians in Arabia who embraced Muhammad and helped him with his quest.

As for modern Christian Thought and Philosophies.

They would not exist without the resussitation of ancient greek aristotlian texts that Muslim scholars had brought back from the ashes that the vatican then caused. We taught you and brought the "West" into the state of enlightenment we also see today.

Thomas Aquinas? His works have already been proven to have been plagiarised.

Read this...

http://www.the-philosopher.co.uk/averroes.htm

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Originally Posted by sarr

wow...night journey ey? sounds super gay...umm, i mean fun.

Face it bro...your prophet was a brilliant tacticion, strategist, political leader, manipulator, war monger and deciever. He spread and created a new concept and united the arab lands under one baner within the years to come...but i really doubt he was ever given visions from God...i think he made it all up to create something big, and unite the mid east because they felt like they were being rejected from the popular european Christian club. Kinda cute when you think bout it

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And also funny, as soon as I surprised you with the notion that Muhammad did talk to God, you came out with that childish post of your with comments like "super gay" and "face it bro" attitudes because you don't have much to say.

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Originally Posted by prof zooruka

what JESUS meant by this saying was those that follow me will be at odds with those that are around them..( meaning even your own family and freinds) because you are trying to do what is right and they are trying to do what is wrong....

There is a story where Muhammad said to a follower that he should return home and respect his mother after the mother had cursed out Muhammad and his beliefs. This is a far more liberal and correct approach without the need for negative language exhibited in the quote of the Bible. Moreover, You have been advocating a role where you have been trying to show the merciful and kind nature of Jesus and the quote negates that. It is no secret that people associate Islam with the sword, but Jesus himself is explicitly shown here to carry that sword. If Jesus is trying to convey a message that one should refrain from "bad" people, why did he not say so with his apparently consistent positive manner?

JESUS knows that not everyone will be a follower him and or of GOD....there will be people that dont want to do what is right and they will want to follow there own disires...so they will peresecute you because you are not like them( even your own family)...and as you know that alot of people who are true believers in christ and are GOD fearing are shunned by there families ( as bible bashers and to preachy)...so what JESUS is saying is that if you follow me be prepared for even your own family members ( who are liberal and have no intrest in GOD) to persecute and shun you.

"I have not come to bring peace but a sword"is what he said. Where is this much publicised "turn the other cheek" mentality that you advocate so much? Jesus meant what he said and I read the passages circumferencing the quote and it seems he maintains that radical and quite violent stance. I think it is quite obvious that not all will endorse and encourage your change in belief and lifestyle, but to bring a sword? How about maintaining a peaceful Ghandi-an approach?



when JESUS said he did not come to bring peace he didnt...the law of GOD as taught by JESUS was intended to seperate the sheep( followres of christ) from the goats( those that dont follow christ)...so when he says i havent come to bring peace what he means is that those who follow me will rebel against the world and those that dont follow me will rebel against those that do follow me...so the wolrd wont be at peace but be at spiritaul war against each other...because you will have to competing forces ( those who obey christ and those who dont) both struggling against one another for there cause....so there wont be peace.

OMG, are you aware of what you just said??????

So Jesus brought no peace and has the lack of ability to create peace even though he is "The Light" and what not? Was and IS he not Lord? Can't he at least try and establish some level of peace rather than bring no peace but a sword? In fact, this makes me scared of the Christian religion because you historically (I admit Islam has similar instances) have forced people to convert or die (South America, Africa, Asia, "the white burden"). And this talk of "no peace but a sword" is not the picture I would want Jesus to be identified with. Seems like a two faced stance.



peace

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And one of the most cardinal rules in writing is referencing and proving the authenticity of the "literal quotations used".

And given that the Bible is a collection of hand picked Gospels and Letters, how accurate are statements claiming Jesus said "......"?

Before People start bashing Islam and other religions, one must at least have read the Quran and understand the dynamics and tolerances of a religion.

I believe that there is a lack of cohesion in addressing the following verse which states the intention of Jesus to bring a sword and not peace. This radiates a war-mongering approach of "You are either with us or not, and if not, you will not have peace but a sword". This is a long mile of "Love thy neighbour as thyself", a statement which looks rather lost and empty in comparison to

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39)

where Jesus states so much more and with seemingly more intent and conviction.


What I will also address with this post is the view that Christianity is a religion with more dynamics and philosophical advancements than Islam.

The Enlightenment period of the Western World, is purely attributed to the hard work Arabs brought forward by saving the ancient works of Plato, Aristotle etc. Figures that have later dominated Christian thought and theology. Popular Christian theologians and philosophers like Thomas Aquinas had their work cut out to such a degree that it was tactless of the Vatican and various Churches not to have attributed his works to the true Islamic Scholars who brought the wisdom to him.


I will now post here, a few sites NOT biased of Muslim Scholars, to highlight these FACTS and not ambitious rants without evidence but mere childish "comeback" quotes lacking any form of structure and common-sense.

http://www.the-philosopher.co.uk/averroes.htm
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/arab-y67s11.html
http://www.catholicapologetics.info/...lam/thomas.htm