Poker Discussion

The site that I play at WPX has changed slightly. Instead of 100% rakeback at the end of the week, it is now 75%. That means the limit tables are a little less appealing but still not too bad. Losing with AA still gets reimbursed at $1/2 and up.

5K added tournaments 3 times a week ($10 + 0) is their way of trying to get more traffic in. Usually there is less than 1000 people online at a time. I kinda like the tournament idea better....they were lacking in that department.....without reducing the rakeback to 75% they wouldn't be able to pull it off.

First tourney starts tonight....Im giving it a try since I estimate only 300-350 players will start making the total pot 5000+3000 = 8k

Damn....I wish i could play on bodog :P

cheers for the advice guys, all good stuff.

i rarley bluff in general play, as i said though, i seem to lose concentration on some hands when i have a chip lead...consequently finding myself to far into hands.

again, his blatant sign seemed ridiculous to me, and i guess in the end put me off completely.

anyway, im tightening up my play, i just have lapses at times lol.

update:

played another house game tonight, its and it felt like one of the best ive played.

i was extremely tight and aggressive and won basically every pot i was involved in during the first 2 hours. i think i played as well as i ever have, maybe adjusting my betting schemes would have lead to larger pay offs, but i was chip leader all game.

until:

3 players left, pre flop all in from short stack with about 1500 in chips, the next player calls, me being in good position and holding JJ i call also.

i lay down my jj

the player who went all in pre flop show 22

and the other player shows kj of suit, or something similar.

basically at this stage im backing myself with the knowledge that i have an upper hand, however the flop comes down, and the third card is a 2.

the next two cards improve neither my hand or my opponents and the player with poker 2's steals the pot.

the game progresses, i regain some chips, and the 3rd player is knocked out.

heads up.

i play tight and aggressive, all in with any pair above 5's and with any k and ace combo. it pays off well, i draw level with my opponent.

then , im big blind, him small. im dealt jj again (an obvious all in with my tactics), and my opponent does the work for me. i call instantly, thinking that jj is a very strong heads up hand.

he lays down Q6 off suit.

basically at this stage i think im going to get some revenge for the early steal when i had pocket jacks.

however, thrid card on the flop is a Q of course, next 2 cards help neither of us and i bow out as i had a slightly smaller chip stack.

in the end, i thought i played well, and i would consider the beats i had as bad ones.

interestingly, when i was beaten with jj while my opponent had 22, he gloated a bit, general bullshit.

i said something like "luck doesnt last", and the jj came up again.... and he got lucky again. oh well.

drops any thoughts on how i could have improved my play on those hands.

3 players left, pre flop all in from short stack with about 1500 in chips, the next player calls, me being in good position and holding JJ i call also.

i lay down my jj

the player who went all in pre flop show 22

and the other player shows kj of suit, or something similar.

basically at this stage im backing myself with the knowledge that i have an upper hand, however the flop comes down, and the third card is a 2.

the next two cards improve neither my hand or my opponents and the player with poker 2's steals the pot.




I'm trying to grasp this situation, Don't say lay down when you mean show, lay down means fold (gets confusing). Now the guy with deuces goes all in for 1500. The guy with kj flat calls? how much did he have after that? Are their sidepots? With Jacks here you really need to isolate against the all in player by pushing yourself and blowing that kj off the hand. Its bad ettiquette while near the money but at a short table its everybody for themselves.

Heads up you did nothing wrong but get unlucky. you were a 3-1 favorite to win the match. Next time its yours.


oh yeah...this right here----->i was extremely tight and aggressive and won basically every pot i was involved in during the first 2 hours. i think i played as well as i ever have, maybe adjusting my betting schemes would have lead to larger pay offs, but i was chip leader all game.

thats the "zone"---remember it.

hm, im trying to remember right now but its alluding me.

edit: ok now i remember, actually 4 players left, the player with dueces was not short stack, he bets the 1500 odd pre flop, the next player folds, then short stack calls all in. hence there was a side pot between me and the guy with 2's and the other player was all in. so we all showed pre flop/.

sorry about my termonology, i basically just play with acquantances and a bit online, so i dont really get into technicalities when it comes to that.

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Originally Posted by sean michael

hm, im trying to remember right now but its alluding me.

edit: ok now i remember, actually 4 players left, the player with dueces was not short stack, he bets the 1500 odd pre flop, the next player folds, then short stack calls all in. hence there was a side pot between me and the guy with 2's and the other player was all in. so we all showed pre flop/.

sorry about my termonology, i basically just play with acquantances and a bit online, so i dont really get into technicalities when it comes to that.

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Many times improper termanology can lead to disaater especially when playing in an official live tourny. Case in point a couple of weeks ago on the WPT Kido Pham was in a hand against an all in opponent and made the remarks "Do you want me to call it" and "go ahead you say call or fold" then he made the mistake of saying "fine I'll call it" when he meant to say was I'll make the decision because he had no intention of actually calling with his hand and was putting on a show. But a couple of players caught the slip and the floor was called and it was decided that the "I'll call it" was a verbal declaration and was binding. He consequently lost the hand and many of his chips. So be careful of what and how you say things at the poker table. The term you were looking for there was "showdown" which means to expose all cards in an all in race or on the river when betting is completed. "Laydown" means to fold. So be careful that you don't accidentally muck by saying the wrong thing.

Other fun poker terms...
the turn - some older players like Tj Cloutier and Doyle Brunson refer to the flop as The turn. Back in the day it was strictly turn 4th and 5th street. The terms flop, turn and river came later.

Dead Man's hand - Refers to Ace Eight in hold em. An omage to Wild Bill Hickock who was shot in the back playing poker. His hand? Two par Aces and eights.

Straddle - In cash games a blind bet to the left of the big blind, double the bb which allows the player to act last preflop. Players to the left have the option to re-straddle for double the previous bet before the cards are dealt. Action starts to the left of the last straddler and you can re-straddle your own straddle so you can keep going around so long as you still have chips.

The gay waiter - Q3 - A queen with a tray

backdoored - being beaten by running cards on the turn and river, describes an opponents hand 2 pair or better that sucks out to multiple needed cards.

the computer hand - q7 - The stats for texas hold em were compiled and entered into a computer and spit out and the mean hand in texas hold em is Q7.

counterfeitted - it can happen many ways, the process of cards on the turn and or river somehow making your hand worse or useless. Any hand can be counterfeitted from high card to a low end straight flush that gets counterfeitted by the board (It happens, happened to me) This is easily one of the most irritating parts of the game, and one of the best exploited,

Show one show all. - A second definition was officially added this year.

1. If a player in a cash game or tournament shows one player his cards after a hand and mucks, those cards may be requested by a player or dealer to be exposed for all to see.

2. If a player exposes one of his cards after the completion of a hand and then mucks, he is REQUIRED to expose the remaining card even if no request is made.

Board Talking - bad ettiquette. The practice of pointing out things on the board when in a hand with 3 or more players or even worse when are the dealer or are not in the hand at all. Things like oooooh look at all those spades or damn why did I fold I woulda had quads? are examples of board talk and are horrible poker ettiquette. When you fold don't make gestures or statements alluding to the strength of your hand and in general save your comments for the completion of the hand. Never coerce your fellow players into decisions when out of a hand, in fact when out of a hand you really shouldn't say anything at all, but rather gather information on the action around you.

Well I learned my lesson once again of playing on tables too heavy for my bankroll. In less than an hour I lost two 11 to 1 rivers and one 7 to 1 river with the biggest pots to cost me half of my bankroll. Yesterday I couldn't even break even with the deck for a few hands on any kind of table. Total hands won after 500 hands was around 5%.

I always know that you shouldn't buy in with more that 10% of your total bankroll. Usually tourney buy-ins are less than 5%. Oh well...I guess yesterday I was in a gambling mood to buy-in that heavy then I was feeling instead of playing right there right then.

Usually mind state is the strongest part of my game and it fell.

So I guess next post in this thread I will go over the mindstate in poker.

great idea! I will be reading!

Mindset in poker

When you get beat on a bad river sometimes peoples thinking is then colored by mood and then a pivotal point is reached and if you don't get your mind together, your whole session could fall off like a hub cap. When you start dwelling on tough 4th and 5th street losses whether it was your mistake or if you played it good, your concentration is broken and so will your stack.

Suppose after a loss you get pocket aces and they don't hold up, then pocket kings after that and they don't hold up either! Other players decisions and whims of luck brings a short term setback. If you don't get yourself through it you will stop playing and thinking why the universe is so unfair.

Then the negative vortex comes in....you get bad outcomes -> you get in a bad mood -> mood affects your play -> you make poor decisions

A good poker player can play through those setbacks. In my situation the extra factor was when I played with a large portion of my bankroll. One big hand loss takes you back a long way and is enough to get you feeling...and it did happen more than once. I did feel I was hazy in my decision making. It wasn't so much that I wanted to get my money back at least to even but I knew I could beat those other players. But after a while I had to only think about what I play and not my opponents. One strategy is to tighten up more...but even then I was getting playable hands in position and of course you want to change your table image fast. Of course they are going to give you action no matter what.

The best decision is to avoid bad neighborhoods. Those other players likely knew I was feeling, waiting to pin another one on me. I am usually the one who preys on those people knowing how the setback phases work.

In short, always focus on how you do right then and not how you feel.

great great post a fascinating read...

There are some pros (Cyndy Violette, Daniel Negreanu, Jennifer Harman and others) who believe that not only mood, but simply "feeling good" can drastically affect your game and the outcome of a session. They believe that positive energy not only breeds good play but good cards, and eating healthy and sleeping well, as well as other mood factors (positive environment/people) contribute to the success of a session. I for one have won tournaments under the most adverse of circumstances, sickness, bad mood, drunk, and seem to thrive under such circumstances. When I'm hungry for a win, I lose, when I just take it easy and flow into the zone starting with realistic goals in mind, I win. I think all in all its all a matter of when and how you are most comfortable that contributes to your success and failure at a poker table.

good add Rock...that is another technique to get over the mishaps. P.R.O. (positive reinforcement override)

Two “techniques” I use to stay focused and trying to resist a bad mood is following:

I loose, cause it’s my fault:
I played poorly, executed bad in critical situations or just couldn’t read my opponent or the board - couldn't lay down 3 kings while faced with 4 diamonds on the board and strong bets by my opponent...

Reaction:
I think about different solutions next time facing this situation and try to summarize my faults and analyze them, faults are the best things to learn of (also in poker)


I loose, cause I got outplayed:
He got me, slowplayed all the way, he just showed me a different level of bluffing, or in other words: he was better in this situation than me...

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In this case I do following: I congratulate my opponent. I need to overcome my ego to do that and with that being made, I feel better because I was able to do that - I put myself in a good mood, despite I just got beat ...afterwards I take that fresh energy I used to congratulate my opponent and keep playing with that energy...

Rock you mention attitude and feeling good.. I was at the card club last weekend, and a guy was at the table being OVERLY happy. Loud clapping once in a while trying to will himself good cards. He lost everything. I think its possible to be overly happy. I usually try to stay positive at the table and it works sometimes, but it seems that many overdo it.

I see that a lot of people on here find themselves calling even when they know that they are beat. I am not the greatest player, but everytime I lose I know that i just beat myself. Sure I am beat by the board on a few hands, but I am my own worst enemy. No matter how many times I do this and vow not to anymore, it doesn't change, I am thinking of taking a bit of a break from poker.

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Originally Posted by Jizzoex

Rock you mention attitude and feeling good.. I was at the card club last weekend, and a guy was at the table being OVERLY happy. Loud clapping once in a while trying to will himself good cards. He lost everything. I think its possible to be overly happy. I usually try to stay positive at the table and it works sometimes, but it seems that many overdo it.

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Yea thats the fake positive attitude, the poker gods see right thru that!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jizzoex

I see that a lot of people on here find themselves calling even when they know that they are beat. I am not the greatest player, but everytime I lose I know that i just beat myself. Sure I am beat by the board on a few hands, but I am my own worst enemy. No matter how many times I do this and vow not to anymore, it doesn't change, I am thinking of taking a bit of a break from poker.

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The very hardest thing to do in poker is to fold a good hand when you know your beat, unfortunately the way to get over this problem is extremely difficult. Let me explain....

Humans are embedded with two natural instincts, To create, to destroy. Some are more in tune with one or the other and this can greatly affect the way one plays. I myself by nature am self destructive (sado-massochists) and generally uncaring when it comes to money. I brush off failure and move on. I'm not worried about being wrong or looking stupid. This has a twofold effect. 1. I can get away from a good hand when my instincts tell me I'm beat. 2. I can call a big bet with almost no hand at all when my instincts tell me my opponent is weak. It also has a third negative effect 3. The Blow up, which is complete entropy. Those who are into creating, (the perfectionists) must be right all the time and therefore will consider the chance they could win rather than the likelihood that they are beat or they are so afraid to lose they won't call anything. Instinct fails because it is not allowed to work. In order to become a better more complete player, you must become detatched from the game and detatched from caring. Forget about the money and remember the essence of the game, which is to decieve and dillude. Don't let monetary aspects affect your play, and most importantly, don't lie to yourself.

One of the hardest things to do in this life is not care about money. But to become a successful poker player you must not let the cash distract you. That's why we take chips and not large bundes of cash to the table.