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I'd rather hear more about the music than counter-attack everything Cilvaringz says. for example, how many of the 24-minute beat session did he end up using? is the Killah Priest track on there? who's the album's MVP? I'd rather people ask those questions than complain about the marketing.
I want clarify my feelings about the project at this point one last time. Then as I said, I'm out. The issue is not you (Cilva) trying to do something different and ensure money is made from the album. In fact, I would be all for it if you hadn't teased us about how nice it would be and how much we would love it, only to turn around and say you hope we never get our hands on it at all. Don't get me wrong, you have the right to change your mind. The fans also have the right to be pissed off that you did. We are. Interesting idea. Unfortunately, you portrayed the project as something completely different for so long, you have alienated many of your fans. I can't imagine working that hard for that long and hoping only one person can ever own the music. How badly are you in need of money? Must be awfully bad to not care if people hear your music. Still a fan of your beats Cilva. Very disappointed in the way you mislead your fans for so long. I'm out.
I think Cilvaringz understands the frustration of everybody in here. For years people want the "old" Wu back and it didnt happen, untill this album shows up in this forum. Everybody was very hyped (even the haters but they will never admit that) until it was crystal clear it would not be released they way we are used to. I think this one copy only album is a big statement and the change in plans sucks but I hope this plan succeeds eventhough I really would love to bump this 2 cd album in my own house. I also hope the gallery listening experience is more then just a headphone, a chair and the music.
At the End of the Day...i was spitting alot of Venom..I was more hurt by being decieved by a Group that kicked so much Knowledge to me in my youth....then to find out.. i've been Hoodwinked..Bamboozled...led a Stray!! My beef is more with the Clan fighting amongst themselves...and RZA for supporting this Crazy Art project. Taking the Music from the Poor people. ODB is Spinning in his Grave! Like i Said..i respect Cilvaringz as an Artist/Producer...his Vision has some Merit...but it's the wrong time, wrong place for it. Cilvaringz can come up with all the Crazy Concepts he wants..at the end of the day, RZA owns the Name, and has the final say so. He could've said.."Naw Kid...I promised the Fans one last Album." "We might as well give them this album..since i can't get the Crew together no more." He should of PAID Cilvaringz a Handsome Amount of Money for his work..instead of Wasting a Million Dollars on "A Better Tommorow"....RZA's Ego wants a Wu-Tang Project all Produced by him! That's the same shit Rae is saying! If this Album was in the Public..and it turned out to be the "Sgt. Pepper" Of Hip-Hop....and the whole thing was produced by someone else...then RZA would feel like shit..and he would lose Credibility.
Im pissed....and i dont wanna hear a Better Tommorow...if it comes out..Im torrenting it. For the simple fact..if these Brothers cant give it they all and come together..well i can't part with the little bit of money i work for...for a Half Assed Album. I've been Burnt Waayyy to many times by these dudes since 1998 to trust it. "Keep Watch" is a Prime example of not knowing what the public wants out of a Wu Record. You damn well know Cilvaringz has WAV. or MP3's of this Album. He'll be insane not to! Especially if he himself said he enjoys the shit out of it. He's a Fan first, and he aint gonna just part with it. So, knowing what i know, it's gonna eventually Leak....We just gotta wait and see how this plays out. After all sales are final..and the Rich Asshole who Buys it, is sitting in his Room listening to it. Some Mysterious Morracan Engineer who stole the files when it was sent to be Mastered will have uploaded it. You never know!
I had to take a step back and think(SMOKE)...Cilvaringz might of been dishonest to his fans to a degree....but the guy obviously cares...because he would'nt be on here responding to our Hate or Trolling, he's answering our questions and interacting with us. He does'nt have to do that. They have the whole Mainstream World right now Sweating them for this concept..but he's still taking time to come on here and be Verbally Assaulted by us. LOL.....i think he feels bad in a way...but this concept has totally went over their heads and out of control..he has no choice but to see it all the way through.
I still have no respect for Wu-Tang Clan anymore...Hopefully the W can be Restored....Just dont talk that "God-Body" shit anymore..because we know better!
so much drama...
So I guess there wont be a single dropping then..
@cilvaringz.. I'm starting to understand your thought process.. But aren't you afraid that this album will lose the momentum that you are initially trying to gain, after the album is sold and the hype is gone? If the buyer decides to do nothing and let it collect dust, I think people will forget about it. Wouldn't it bother you that more people could've heard the album? Especially an album that you're so proud of. Future generations will never get to discover it, unlike the other classic wu albums. And therefore, later on, nobody will pay attention to it... Attention that it might deserve. That's why I think that in the long run your plan could backfire. But respect for trying something new.
I was fortunate enough to meet Ringz several times back in the Lin Brotherz era and what always struck me in him was his ambition and self-confidence. I think this project is the incredible result of those traits combined with almost two decades of hard work. I'm disappointed I won't be able to own this album, but from a business point of view I am beyond curious to see how it will pan out and what industry revolution it may provoke.
BTW: here's a tip, it worked for me. Once you're able to accept the idea that you don't OWN this, it's actually much easier to accept the spin that's been given to the release of the album.
A way I feel you could make money off of this and would be far better than listening in a museum is by treating your album as a movie. It is shown in theatres around the US and you can go and listen to the album in a movie theatre for movie theatre prices. You can have old footage of wutang playing or what not on the screen.....I think this idea trumps the museum one. You see how much people make in the box office? Ridiculous bread. After a period of time it gets released for sale just like movies .....or you release it as a blu ray movie format. There is piracy in the movie industry but not even close as the music industry. This way fans could purchase and get excited for the "music/movie" showing
RZA in interviews will talk about how he owes it to the fans for a reunion album, but in the same breath say that this album is a "peice of art".....but ABT is for the fans....huh? So that means ABT isn't a peice of art, it's a generic giveaway to the fans? Same as 8 Diagrams which was damn near universally panned, Rae didnt like the album, same as he doesn't ABT. Why are the two albums separated into two categories? Why is one "art" and the other "for the fans"? Why isn't the "art" album "for the fans"? Sounds to me like the "Shaolin" album is THE real album, and ABT is 8 Diagrams part 2. And here Ringz basically wants to call fans cry babies who have a sense of entitlement, because we were teased about potentially great Wu album in the future. On one hand RZA says we are "owed" something,and on the other Ringz says we shouldn't feel entitled to anything... that sounds contradictory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubanlinx95
I would imagine that most of the beats on the youtube beat session are on this album (hence why he suddenly took that video down after like three years of it being up). And I also, definitely suspect that track with Priest is on there as well.
On the flipside why did Van Gogh only sell 2 paintings out of 2000 in his lifetime, Kafka get only a small amount of his works published in his lifetime (his main income was from working as an insurance officer), why was Bach largely unrecognised as a composer in his lifetime etc etc (theres tons of cases like these) whereas soulja boi can earn millions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
if we follow ur proposed logic then soulja boi is a more respected artist than people like Edgar Allan Poe.
u keep mentioning that musicians nowadays cant earn a living out of just doing music. so what.
the vast majority of poets today cant earn a living out of just doing poetry. they need another job unless theyre extremely famous.
im not sure but I guess its the same for novelists as well.
do u really think literature isn't valued as art cuz it doesn't gain much money.
I think this is the main problem with ur argument. u seem to think something is regarded highly as an art form if it gets lots of money.
those artists selling pretentious crap for large sums of money wont be regarded as good artists in the future.
u also say ur scared that digitalisation will mean no one will discuss the music in ur album after so many weeks, well how can anyone discuss the music in ur album if most don't hear it. they don't, they only discuss ur business plan.
also what u say about how LPs and crate digging were better is mostly just nostalgia
its kinda like the guy who said this
"These talking machines will ruin the artistic development of music in this country. When I was a boy, in front of every house in the summer evenings, you would find young people together singing the songs of the day or old songs. Today, you hear these infernal machines going night and day. We will not have a vocal chord left in America! The vocal chord will be eliminated by a process of evolution as was the tail of man when he came down from the ape.
If you do not make the people executants, you make them depend on the machines."
it just seems absurd nowadays but ur kinda doing the same thing by saying music has no value cuz of digitalisation.
trust me as somebody how got into hip hop largely from utube and downloading, music still has a large value today which cant be changed.
Ahhhhhhhhh!!
Onyx!!!!!!!!!!!
I didn't realize the video was taken down. I only remember three beats that stood out for me: the Killah Priest track, the one that sounded like a Western theme song, and I think there was one with an Arabic dude shouting allah uh akbar. I hope they all made it into the album.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWuCepticon
call me crazy, but this album has the potential to rival Wu Tang Forever, maybe even surpass it. I get the feeling that Cilvaringz is a spiritual dude and wanted to erase the 5% ideology from Wu Tang Forever and make a more "Islamic" double album (whatever that means) with this record. or not.
If there were no Medicis there wouldn't be no Botticelli, Da Vinci, Buonarroti.
One Medici could easily piss on a peace of art rather than allowing public to see it. Let's just hope this owner does the right thing.
I'd laugh if a jew bought it and kept in it tel aviv
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubanlinx95
Yeah I ripped it years ago from YouTube, and converted into an mp3, just to listen to it. He actually released some of those beats in the Wuki package, the Allah Uh Akbar instrumental was one of them. So I'm not sure if that's on the album.
I can't say whether he would want to erase the 5%er ideology, seeing as how it's a definitely part of the Wu concept (at least on the 90s material). But it's possible, who knows but him. Whether this album is the quality or better of "Forever" is yet to be heard, I can definitely say this will be their best since that album. Because all the Clan need are some grimy creative production, and that energy seems to come back...and all of the energy and beats sounded just right from the snippets that I've heard thus far. It's most likely another classic, finally.
I didn't get the Wuki package, but damn, he's not going to use the allah uh akbar beat on this album? that sucks. please tell me I can download the instrumental somewhere. I need to hear the whole thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWuCepticon
I was just spit balling when I mentioned erasing the 5% ideology, because I just heard his "I" album for the first time (it was alright) and I noticed Cilvaringz had some negative things to say about the organization. plus he said he's going to add "in the name of allah" in the album and hired a muslim dude to design the nickel and silver box, so I just took it as Cilvaringz "cleansing" the 5% ideology thing from Wu and going all "traditional muslim" on us. but whatever.
Cilvaringz, I haven't seen your instagram photos that you mentioned, but what exactly is your concept/theme for the art cover? I'm guessing it's more than just a photograph of the Wu members looking all tough and rugged. since you're so into the Renaissance, I'm picturing a kind of old style painting
Cilvaringz is right. The concept doesn't hurt anyone. If wutang said they had 12 unreleased tracks in the stash nobody would be pissed even though they didn't get to hear it. If they said they had 1 person listen to them (which this is the case), nobody would still care. So why act like this is outrageous? because wutang is also getting the money their 20 years of hard work has earned them? This is only controversial because it's a good idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ol dirty abbot
Hahhahaha! I'm not going to read all of this thread but i get the impression that someone said it was going to be a 'more islamic' album. I think that's fucking gay and stupid but i'm not buying it so it's cool
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubanlinx95
Yeah I can upload the Allah uh Akbar track on mediafire or something. I'm not saying it's not on there, it could definitely be, because the snippets had alot of the beats from the session. It's possible that youre right about the Islam thing because he seemed a bit disparaging when mentioning 5%ers on "I", but idk. I liked "I", it wasn't perfect, but overall I thought it was a nice throwback (sound wise) to the classic Wu era. In The Name of Allah, The Weeping Tiger, Jewels, Elephant Juice, Dart Tournament, Dumb Deaf and Blind (The Epic of Bitter Triumph song used this beat better IMO) were great tracks.
much appreciated if you can upload that Allah uh Akbar track. any other beats from the 24-minute video session make it into the Wuki package? that Killah Priest track sounds godly
No prob man, and unfortunately no, the KP track was not in the package. And yes, that track sounds to be epic af. The beat reminded me of some old 4th Disciple shit, and Priest was about to decimate it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubanlinx95
People are typing paragraphs about 5 %?
just heard the Allah Uh Akbar instrumental. wow! very unfortunate it didn't make the album. it sounded like the soundtrack to a conquest. that's the song the Turks would've played as they entered Constantinople lol
There's no 5% angle (even though I'm totally not down with that whole movement calling caucasian people devils and Yakub and stuff)... and most of those beats are not on the album, some are. The KP track isn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
What album is the KP track for? Heavy Mental 2?
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by cubanlinx95
Can you give us all a link for this track? It was the best one on that 30 mins sampler vid Cilva gave us! Cilva any hints of where this track will end up or who will spit on it? Killarmy getting it or is it on the new Album?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubanlinx95
It's on one of the Mental Chambers albums.
Whats the official title of the track and where I can get a copy of it?Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalsouljah36
so neither the Allah Uh Akbar nor the Killah Priest tracks are on the Shaolin album. that's very very unfortunate
thats actually good... for you... think about it
doesn't that new interview with Cilva and the Snippet go live today?
Now you're just being a dick! Your basically saying since none of of you average Wu fans will get to hear my album those songs not being on it is good for you. Well good for you Ringz you just lost a fan. Peace out!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
it's good for yall because they will come out normally and you'll have them in your possession...
Yea thanks I understood the first time. Anyway read through this thread and i have to say I never thought I'd turn on the Wu but I will not support this idea. I think it's extremely disrespectful to the fans and I really question what kind of musical artist doesn't want his music to bring happiness and joy to the masses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
Like I said I supported your past projects but you've lost me as a fan. I guess in the grand scheme of things one fan doesn't really matter to you so it is what it is.
Peace out!
Every fan counts, and Im sorry you feel that way and of course thank you for the past support.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
Weren't there supposed to be multiple announcements? You said yourself to have patience because you would never disappoint the fans. It seems a lot of us are disappointed...when do we get the update that makes us all feel better?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
All this talk about the Medicis is bullshit, Cilvaringz. If it wasn't for the fans supporting Wu this whole time, you all wouldn't have been in a position to even release this album. It's not about a sense of entitlement...it's about you biting the hand that fed you all these years.
As for whether we would still be upset if these songs just sat on a hard drive and were never released...well, that isn't a good comparison. Why? Because these songs were prepped for years to be released. You made the decision to release them, and then backed out at the last second much to the disappointment of the fans who were supporting you throughout the entire process.
"Ohh, but think about the idea. Let's discuss it as art. Let's talk about what this means for the world." Stop sucking your own dick. Sure, it's a good way to make money, but it's an even better way to shit on everyone who supported the Wu since the beginning. Simply because we don't have the money to play this game.
Prince and all these other artists like the idea? Were they supporting you and buying all of your albums, you fucking idiot? NO. WE were buying all the Wu albums. We invested all of the money that had you in this position. WE kept the Wu alive throughout all the shitty releases. And you shitted on us because you're with the cool crowd now. Prince, David Bowie...get the fuck outta here. I'll put it on everything those motherfuckers never bought a Wu Tang album.
"People only listen to albums for a week. Waaaaaaah." Stop putting out shitty fucking music. Give us music with longevity, and we will listen for more than a week. Your debut had its fair share of wack shit...lord knows the clan hasn't been releasing quality shit for a minute now.
You and RZA aren't in it for the artistry. You're fucking suits. Greedy fucking businessmen who are shitting on everyone who got you where you are now. I hope you enjoy your new country club friends, because you aren't revitalizing the Wu movement--you're destroying it.