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You'd probably have to clarify if you're putting one song on Johns Legends album or arranging a whole John Legend album without his knowledge.
quick question, if RZA deemed those albums floating around of "Wu-Tang vs the Beatles" as an official Wu Tang album.. Apart from RZA owning the brand name, would you say that the Wu-Tang Clan, or even just RZA, made that album?
at best you could call it a Wu Tang album as imagined by (whoever made it)
Dudes in jail like they aint got family on the outside to feed? Thats a sneaky ass move right there Cilva. They probably got paid dirt cheap for them verses especially Sin and Shy.
Shy got paid double than he was selling for at the time, Sin not only got paid well, he got paid to re-record verses. Fuck outta here with presumptions, try dealing with facts rather than what you think happened. And they weren't in jail when we were working with them. Dudes is grown men, responsible for their own actions. Not me.
Why didnt the other clan members get to hear to whole record before the auction?
I mean it's the biggest statement in the history of music selling only one copy, you should expect that all clan members wanted to hear the end product or that RZA tried his best to let them listem to it so they know what it is exactly because it's a wu album according to RZA isnt it?
that's gonna be one hell of a monster posse cut with John Legend, Hound and me on the same track. we'll pay DJ Khaled 10 bucks for some adlibs too. I'm gonna have him say shit like 'we do it for the culture!'Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
trueQuote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
Couple of reasons, first of all the Clan is too scattered around to organize a get together by a barn fire, warm coco and listen to the album in the cumbaya setting that you're implying. Secondly the album was kept here in Morocco, not with RZA in LA. Third, part of its mystique, uniqueness and strength was that nobody including the artists themselves had ever heard it. Owning the album would therefore be extra special.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toothflesh
You're implying that Wu-Tang vs The Beatles was made the same way and includes the Clan's participation in the same way as OUATIS and can therefore be compared to make the argument you're making? What you smoking on? And Sin and Shyheim being on these tracks don't make it a Wu-Tang album, or less than a Wu-Tang album, or more than a Wu-Tang album. Their contribution is more beneficial for them then the other way around. Listen to Method Man in the Huff Post interview, listen to Rae & Ghost on the scluzay.com site, check Masta Killa's interviews with Allhiphop.com.. everyone was aware of what was going to happen with it prior to any announcement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumm Ra
I was not referring to a cumbaya setting at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
Its pretty clear bringing them together has been a problem since years.
I just cant imagine that not one clan member was interested in the end product.
What was rza using back then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
LOL, who has the money?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
of course some of these artists are gonna say 'I want a (bigger) cut now', it's human nature
they got paid for their verse back then and that's the end of it really
if I drop a verse for ShaDynasty to add to a remix of his and his remix album takes off maybe I can ask for more moolah too but he would be right to tell me to go fuck off and be happy with what I agreed to first. even if Sha had changed it to a Mister Yo album with DP raps all over it without me knowing about it. shoutout to Sha & Senor Yo.
changing it from a cilvaringz / killah priest / kodak black / whatever album to a wu-tang labeled album doesn't change that they got paid. Idk if sin, shy etc would have negotiated a higher price if they knew it was gonna turn out a wu tang labeled album. maybe not cuz they could have figured being included on a wu album would give them higher exposure, which would reflect on the sales of their own projects. OR NOT. Idk, it's all conjecture
but let's not pretend these guys had to save on egg sandwiches just so they could record a verse for this
it's rap. EVERYBODY is always gonna try to get more money out of it when things take an unexpected upturn suddenly. (goes for most genres really lol) can't blame 'em. doesn't mean you have to give into them
RZA was using ProTools for the first time. It had just launched in a few studios. Re: money. We told Bloomberg how the money broke down, they didnt care to post it.Quote:
Originally Posted by num2son
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
How is it not? YOU decided that YOU wanted a new wu album featuring all the classic beez and beats and skits and famly ties... So YOU decided to gather the money to do that.
YOU decided the only opinion that mattered in the end was the RZAs and you knew that it was better to ask for FORGIVENESS than PERMISSION.
YOU set the example that ANYONE with MONEY can secretly record the album and offer rza a bag to make it official.
This is no different than the labels financing a wu album except they goto RZA and the GROUP not some c affiliate (no offense but your not subz of man, bk zu or killarm) who wants to replace rza
And you can deny this but you already said in this thread that it only matters what rza thinks when it vomes to a wu alhum
So its fck meth. Fuck ugod. Fuck deck. Fuck cap n gza etc. they are PART of the group TOO. THEY DONT OWN THEY NAME BUT THAT DONT MEAN THEY ARENT PART OF WUTANG AND THEIR OPINIONS DONT MATTER.
you already made it crystal clear in this thread their opinions dont matter.
And now the doors open to ANYONE with cash can secretly make wu albums as long as rza happy. Guess sermon when meth was signed to def jam could take his catalog of meth verses and tell def jam "i got a method man album ready". And if def jam okd it, wed have a new meth album without meths ok.
You helped set a very dangerious precedent for the clan right now and taught 9/10 that their opinions mean ZERO.
ALL THIS... and at the end of the day YOU stated the album was the ultimate wu album for the fans.
And because you were afraid it wouldnt sell enough you decided to sell it to a single rich buyer with terms that wed NEVER hear it beause he cannot put it out commercially.
So yur hip hop will NEVER be heard by the masses so you can make some EXTRA money. The ULTIMATE WU ALBUM... for the FANS.. sitting in skrelis house.
But let you tell it.. YOURE HAPPIER WE READ ABOUT THE ALBUM MORE THAN PEOPLE HEARING IT.
Thats not hip hop. Thats not hip hop culture. Thats straight making money off the wu brand YOU AINT EVEN PART OF.
ITS TEXT BOOK culture VULTURING. you aint wutang but because you have rich friends you secretly made a wutang album without the knowledge of the clan.
You took the power out of their hands but your happier about the press for an album noone will ever hear, more than the joy evey TRUE BLUE wu fan would get from hearing their rhyming heroes one last time the way we always wanted. You teased and dangled the carrot and then took it away and started telling us how we should feel about it.
Pure arrogance. Pure deception.
Is anyone mad at math? No cuz he told dudes ima make a new wu album, got rzas blessing and is dripping it for the fans.
You did the complete opposite and somehow cannot comprehend why people feel the way they do.
I didnt make threads askin fans to pick beats. I didnt hype them up for 2.5 years. YOU did. And then for money you make jokes about not recievint you decided to make hip hop for the RICH when its always been for the poor inner city youth.
This whole shit is such a shot at hip hop and hip hop culture its ridiculous.
You SOLD OUT. Easy breezy beautiful cover girl.
And the sad shit is everyone would atill forgive you if you gave them the album you promised.
You have no idea the joy you brought us all knowing that i was gonna be able to hear meth rap with shabazz on a wu track. That rae n rza (n the rest) were dropping classic verses and the beats weren't overproduced fluff like todays music.
And you took it away.
Why you even said ANYTHING about it ill never know. You didnt need to, it didnt help yur buzz at all its only hurting it.
You should have known better and you talked about that special idea pretty much from the get go but wouldnt tell us.
You with your vague answers, arrogant responses, questionable decisions and secrets caused EVERY SINGLE problem with this album.
The fact that you cant admit that nor give a flying fuck tells me all I need to know already...
You are a secret agent culture vulture who infiltrated wutng/hiphop for your own benefit. If this shit was really in your veins you wouodnt trade the wu fans ultimate dream for some press on forbes.
You did tho.
And now well never EVER get an album like this (one that recalls the old days/old teams/old beats and rhymes/old feelings) befause you made the "CLOSURE ALBUM" and EVERY TRUE WU FAN FROM DAY 1 will be DEAD before we get that "Closure".
So fuck rza for stating this album was closire for the fans...
Fuck you for sullying the rep and status of my favorite musicians by going behind their back and publically stating THEIR OPINIONS DONT MATTER.
the comparison isnt 100% but much more so than your examples. nobody in Wu including RZA had any input to how OATIS was put together, same as Wu-Tang vs Beatles where their verses were used on someone else's song arrangement and production. only difference is OATIS has new verses. Am I wrong?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
idk what you were smoking for your comparisons - at least the tracks meant for solo albums that made it to The W and whatnot were actually a manifestation of the wu-tang members. it was made as Wu-Tang intended, whether for good or bad.
OATIS is a Wu-Tang album as imagined by Cilvaringz. I aint mad, its just what it is and more power to it.
'it' as in the album? when it was already completed? that has no bearing on what im talking aboutQuote:
everyone was aware of what was going to happen with it prior to any announcement.
That Yo/Lee Towers/ShaDynasty LP is going to smash the world, but lets split the profits evenly homies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Towers
Anyway what does Pro Tools have to do with people calling this album copy and paste? I'm almost sure that thats not what people are referring to when they use that phrase.
in ref to the copy and paste nature of the album, comparing to rza makin 36 chambers is completely obsolete since the clan all knew they were making that specific album.. rza usin pro tools for the first time on that does not apply for that reason n im sure he himself would clarify the same.. and anyone who know anythin bout the music industry knows that fees for mc's n producers are based on budgets whether independent or a major.. chargin a fee to feature on this album opposed to chargin for a clan album r two totallt separate animals, exactly like someone wouldnt charge the same fee for a action bronson lp as they would a kanye project.. i can only speak on how ifelt when heard after all the hype that it wasn't a rza production rather a cr prod.. i felt jus like the majority of everyone else like it ws misleading, false advertisment to a great degree.. specially since cr has been talkin bout the project he gon drop for the fans all these years on this forum, only to find out its been branded a wu album at that.. they new album prod by mathematics is advertised as such and he a actual wu-element, not an affiliate.
it definitely is a fake album if John legend had nothing to do with it. I don't need to read the book homie I read "it's coming"Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
I don't think that my brother can read tbh he's a little under the weather
Yes it would be fake if john legend didnt know about the album.The issue is you cant say its a legitimate album if the vocals were recorded under the assumption it was a cilvaringz lp.Rza is the Abbott,but he doesn't speak for the other 8 members.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
So how about Rae, Ghost, Masta Killa, RZA and even Meth in the Huff post interview talking bout the album as a Wu-Tang album? Dont count right? And RZA doesn't speak for the group? You've been living under a rock for the last 20 years?Quote:
Originally Posted by wescraven
Well that's good news for you then since you didnt spend a dime on it, you had nothing to lose, nor have you lost anything on it. Problem solved. Unless there's emotional damage to deal withQuote:
Originally Posted by digi
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForensikZ
Ok. So. First you say it's a fake album. Now it's the ultimate Wu album. Then you say you dont give a fuck about it. Now you're crying about not having closure due to death. And I'm a secret agent who infiltrated the Wu. Somebody give this man an award for best post of 2017. Keep it up, you're fascinating.
Ok. So. First you say it's a fake album. Now it's the ultimate Wu album. Then you say you dont give a fuck about it. Now you're crying about not having closure due to death. And I'm a secret agent who infiltrated the Wu. Somebody give this man an award for best post of 2017. Keep it up, you're fascinating.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForensikZ
According to a comment on HiphopDX someone spilled the beans on this thing on Reddit and then deleted it.
This shit is stupid. We all know what happened here, spin it however you want. Some people hate this thing and others don't but the arguments won't change. People will keep calling Ringz out for being underhand and cutting the fans out and Ringz will keep being disingenuous about the upset hes caused with this embarrassment. Its not life or death but people still feel how they feel when the subject is brought up.
What I don't understand is.. why is some of y'all arguing with Ringz if The RZA himself say its a Wu-Tang album? Issue donneee!!!
What I don't understand is.. why is some of y'all arguing with Ringz if The RZA himself say its a Wu-Tang album?
I think ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance_Goines
1) people don't feel like thinking too much about RZA going on board for $$$, but personally I don't see what's wrong with a payday or with going on board for a one copy album (labeled as wu-tang) for that matter
2) people can't discuss all of their OUATIS issues face to face with rza himself on here
3)the It's coming thread over the years
Like Sha said people are gonna have their own opinions and feelings over OUATIS and discussion threads like these aren't gonna change people's opinion. It's good for venting, and for getting some additional info from Cilvaringz
essentially a lot of people are unhappy about Cilvaringz changing the original album labeling (originally a sort of Cilvaringz presents ... album) and the expected distribution method (mass production versus one copy)
I respect people feeling disappointed. Forensikz, with many others, would love to have heard a Wu-Tang album in the old style. Who wouldn't? It's only natural.
People are upset with Cilvaringz, not RZA, for going another route with OUATIS than originally intended. Understandable. But imo Cilvaringz can change his mind ANY TIME he wants, cuz its HIS BEATS, HE selected the artists, HE paid for their verses etc. How can he not do with his own project as he wishes? He got RZA to sign off on labeling it as a Wu-Tang album. We as fans feel entitled, cuz a lot of us were 'involved' with this project early on through the It's coming thread. But people feel so ENTITLED in general these days. 'You can't do this cuz I don't like it.' Well guess what, other people don't have to take your feelings into account.
Cilvaringz' idea, as explained in Cyrus' book, turned into :
1) selling the album as a work of art thus getting the discussion going of music as art and getting the wu's name in the international spotlight and getting a big payday
2) getting the album to the fans after the auction sale through Plan B. So Cilvaringz did want to get everyone to hear the album after the sale (but not with others making a profit off of it). Regrettably, due to some Martin Shkreli antics, this Plan B misfired
I hope for everyone who still wants to hear this album that it leaks somehow, someway. Personally I'm okay with not hearing it.
You never know what happens with the new owner of OUATIS. If his identity is revealed maybe Cilvaringz and RZA can feel him out as to putting up the album for streaming / free distribution / museum tour etc. But if it's a collector who just wants the album for himself then that's the end of it (for now)
For people who still want to hear the album, I would definitely not give up hope yet.
Because anyone who was here when "it's coming" was the top stickied thread in the Wu chamber knows that this is a cilvaringz alum that RZA stuck his name on to. Sure, Ringz deleted a massive thread that spanned over many years and new members are none-the-wiser but old heads know the truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance_Goines
After all this bullshit, Cilva will never be seen on stage again with the Wu-Tang. Method Man hates you man!
Has anyone ever thought about that maybe Cilvaringz lied about it being a Cilvaringz album????? If I look at how ABT was done with every membr knowing they were recording a clan album I too wouldve taken the route that cilvaringz took and not told anybody. Remember all the fights with ABT? but OATIS did not have any, not until after ! And we stil havent heard one clan member say it wasnt a wutang album. We only heard affiliates and managers. So Cilvaringz did you lie about it being your album while you and rza secretly cooked this up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
I didnt even wanna read your response because i had half hoped youd answer ONE point but alas lets keep it comedy for the corp cuz we all know your so witty and funny... yuck yuck yuck caaaw culture vulture
Still cant admit you fucked this whole rollout up cuz u couldnt keep ya mouth shut. Had to dangle that carrot...
Now wan tell us how we should feel about the whole thing...
It is a fake WU album CUZ THE WUTANG HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. THEY DIDNT DECIDE TO DO IT. THEY DIDNT PLAN ON IT.
Blbut alas they are present and together where they arent much anymore. For that alone its worth a listen iver your mediocre production.
You dont care what anyone but rza thinks. At all. Cuz thats your perogative. I wouldnt either if i were you. Why take a ten man vote when i can make a secret album and pay off ONE of them.
See how arrogant you are.
This is why NOONE likes you
You are no different than any shady exec. Used your money to infilitrate the group and set a dangerious precedent from here on out.
No different then m80 and his wannabe wu albums. YUR Bob perry ass wheres my 2 champs of shaolin tape? Bronze dont even like you no more and you put him ON.
You are the anr that gza warned about
The Morrocan mountain climber who plays an electric guitar.
course im mad. I was 5 when the wu came out. Im FROM staten island, i grew up around people who knew them, at places they hung out before they had money,etc.
Guarantee you if u woulda told these guys you would have pulled this move years ago.. NOONE would have helped you. You took advantage of a weak time in the industry and exploited it to make some bread.
Good day sir. May your joy turn to ashes in yur mouth. Thats my new wu closure. May you stay inside yur dutch morrocan castle and never come out.
It's funny that nobody likes cilvaringz in the wu family.
4th disciple, bronze, killah priest, meth, u-god, killa sin, remedy, ....
And how many tracks cilvaringz produced for wu members or killah beez ?
GFK 1 mixtape track, raekwon 1 track, inspectah deck 1 mixtape track. 3 tracks in 18 years.
And now look at bronze's catalogue....
OUATIS is a real Wu-Tang Clan album just like Duets: The Final Chapter from 2005 is a real Biggie album with features from Nelly and Korn
The Truth is a motherfucker aint it LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Antonelli
Guys, I know you're trying to find something here to make me mad or to ridicule me, but you need to try harder.
1. I haven't seen the stage in years and I'm not trying to. I did my world tours, great fun, great experience, now I'm a hermit.
2. You forgot Dom P and a whole bunch of others in that list. But you need to realize, that distrust and dislike of me by affiliates and others is something I've dealt with way before OUATIS. That's why I wrote Brothers Ain't Brothers. In the beginning that shit bothered me, in the very beginning it bothered me quite a lot actually because who doesn't want to be liked by his heroes right? But as time moved on I started seeing things, hearings things, dudes were telling me this and that about other dudes.. it wasn't what I thought it was. That's what Brothers Ain't Brothers is about.
Through it all, there were few brothers that remained cool, and RZA has always been straight with me, albeit we've had our disagreements and arguments, he was at least a man about discussing them face to face. So I don't care if somebody doesn't like me. I never stole from anyone. I just took full advantage of the brand I was allowed to rep. A lot of brothers made a lot of money with me, and I in return made my fair share. That's what most of this is about, making money. If you think dudes are sending each other christmas cards then think again.
Arguments and disagreements have been going on for years between these brothers. That ain't inside info, it's playing out in public. Little ol' Cilvaringz's situation is nothing compared to what went down in the 18 years before I came looking around the corner.
All those names you listed, sure they don't like me. But I got an experience with each one of them, and I never started shit. I just chose not to air shit out cause I don't play that dumb name calling shit in the media. You got a problem with me, call me. I'm the most accesible guy ever. But if you wanna play that dumb name calling shit in the media or make diss tracks... please.. that's just hilarious. But who knows, maybe one day I'll feel like fuck it, let me spill the beans on this whole shit.
And don't take my "emotionless" answers for arrogance. You ask shit nicely or normally I'll happily answer you in a decent way. You start coming with dumb accussations, that's what you'll get back. At least I'm talking back to you here.
WU-MASSARCE, Wu tang clan album?
This is clutching at straws big time and only 1% possible. The fact is dude wanted to make the perfect Wu Tang album to a 'Wu tang sound' that hadn't been years since The W and really take it back to 36C; I have no doubt that RZA was having none of a Wu Tang release unless he was getting in on the cake and the only way to make that was to do the 1 copy; the concept of 1 copy is good just stop frontin that it was always about reclaiming ownership of art (it's not your legacy that was apparently stolen) and stop frontin with these stories about creating the concept riding camels in the desert, this whole shit is just creative story telling. RZA didn't do shit on this album but market itQuote:
Originally Posted by Fucknuts
@ Fucknuts : interesting scenario but OUATIS historically evolved from a Killah Priest x Cilvaringz album (with Cilva providing beats) that didn't make it through for various reasons. at least that's how I remember it, it's been a long time by now lol
I dont know man. The more I think about it the more i think this is case!!! think about it. People tell me he (rings) was on here with some thread called its coming right? maybe he wanted people to think that on purpose so that anybody looking on here including wu affiliates would continue to think that this was a cilvaringz album. The reddit guy (i cant believe nobody fucking printscreened it!!) said that rza would be on the phone to them as they were editing. How are you gonna hve all the clan members on one album appearing over a dozen times and still think its only featuring work for a cilvarings album??? how is rza on there a bunch of times and not know anything??? it doesnt make sense man!! 6 years of recordings with everybody and their grandma and rza dont know nothing??? i dont believe it man. listen to raekwon and ghostface on the albums website scluzay.com, they are talking about it as a wutang clan album no doubt in their voices. I checked with cilvaringz said here himself about method man on huffington post and even he called it a clan album. Apparently masta killa said the same somewhere else but i cant find it. Been fucking with this shit for two days now I need to figure this out!!!! c'mon ringz tell us whats REALLLY hood!!! :)
well these are all good points
I wasn't there on reddit so I can't comment on that
now one thing I would like to add is that to the generals and killa bees this OUATIS project might not have felt out of the ordinary as a Cilvaringz album during recording sessions, as it wouldn't have been a very different experience for those artists who had been featured on Cilvaringz debut album 'I', which also featured a lot of generals and killa bees, and also was a long time in the making
but I can certainly NOT disprove your theory and you have certainly added intriguing insights