They think you're talking about beats.Quote:
Originally Posted by RADIOACTIVE MAN
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They think you're talking about beats.Quote:
Originally Posted by RADIOACTIVE MAN
besides the production side of things the wu lyrically need to get back to the wu forever rhyming style to me that is the essence of who they are and a fully bronze wu lp would be dope as hell in my opinion but in all reality it hurts me to say this and i hope they prove me wrong but i just dont think they got another classic album in them those days are gone they all grew up got families there not in that state of mind no more there about all in there 50s some approaching 60s i mean its just not the same and also as good as the beats have to be also there lyrics have to be as good as the instrumental or if not better thats just my opinion and damn i have not post in this part of the forum in mad long but had to put my 2 cents in peace
^ Run on sentence, are you allergic to full stops?
La been tellin me about his sessions with RZA...saying that shit is shaping up to be some classic shit....get ready for something new with the Clan.
Also I still got some shit I never dropped..
One with Killah Priest and Ghost that's stupid...some Meth, Deck & others as well.
You produce?Quote:
Originally Posted by JEM
Yes and Mc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
Quote:
Originally Posted by RADIOACTIVE MAN
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Originally Posted by RADIOACTIVE MAN
i agree…but that was done already and didn’t work out so well for us
you have my attentionQuote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
id rather have an album produced by john the fuckin baptist than fucking daringer. Id rather go through OUATIS AGAIN then get a daringer/griselda produced wu album.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollow Dartz
NUMBER 1 : the history
the fact you just gave the sound to roc marviano shows that you just dont know what your talking about
JAY ELECTRONICA , if anyone, started the whole throwback sound for NEW ARTISTS, NOT rocmarciano, not griselda.
Old school vibe? Exhibit c. CHECK
drumless beats? Eternal sunshine. CHECK
wu ish lyrics and OBVIOUS influence. CHECK
fuck outta here man. You new underground dudes are the fucking WORST. Stop listening to youtube and DO THE KNOWLEDGE.
what did roc dobthat sean price didnt already do 5 years prior to roc? They even rhyme similar. What did roc do doom didnt do? Roc is essentialy cuban linx meets doom with sean price funny lines.
these guys are just the next extension of the nyc underground except they do NOTHING new. Rehash old shit without an OUNCE of BOP wu had. ROC is dope. I agree. But i wasnt talking about roc originally.. And even he cant save wutang as ill show later.
ive had established forum beef with ringz and even ringz is 5 ateps over fucking daringer. GUERILLA HOOD to st valentines day massacre and whatever else >>> griselda. And like ringz said.. their shit does not even come close to hitting like wutang in 90s. Not even in the 2000s. They barely better tyan 2010 wu cuz the issue is really something else entirely...
94 ghost shit would be a fucking throwaway on cuban linx. what album isbthere classic bro? They got ZERO. THEY ALL HYPE. notice NOONE knows THE MUSIC! on any show they on. never is one song mentioned. They dont even got ONE SONG as big as a wu song in the fucking 2000s bro let alone 90s. Their shit comes and goes and is fed by lil hypebeast nerds like you who sell their “exclusive” slop for hundreds cuz its rare just so some lil white kid can go “you got this exclusive griselda release?”
there songs are essentially copy pieces. 96 jay shit. 94 ghost shit. References to wrestlers in titles to songsbthat mean NOTHING. Aka tye same shit wu did when “they fell off”. Im starting to believe even most wu fans dont even understand wu tang and just like that boombap shit cuz yall keep peddeling this eack offbeat sleepy boombap like its 5 mic worthy.
whats griselfas CREAM bro? What album is their 36? Which isbtheir wu forever? Explain to me how their albums differ from one to the next LIKE I CAN WITH WUTANG. You couldnt string 20 songs from ALL 20+ RELEASES that could fuck with ONE major wu album. FAAAAACTO
NUMBER 2. “Its iust the beats” lmao
you guys saying “lol wu elements” like making beats is something that changes for the worse over tome but the MCs are the mcs forever.. LMAO. THAT IS WUS PROBLEM. Mcing. Period. Been their issue since fucking mid 2000s. The beats are the beats. Maybe if they could string tigether a song that made fucking sense, didnt rush sessions, let shit cook, actually got together or didnt use shitty hooks like all over ABT itd be ok. But in what world are yall in where its “lmao wu elements” and not “lmao wu tang PERIOD”.
and you act like you saying something new. People been shitting on rza/elemnts since 1998.. and yet many albums have dropped since tht shit all over griseldas whole catalog have been dropped since.
gzas muggs album. Issue wasnt muggs. It was gza
cuban linx 2. Issue wasnt the beats. It was rae if anything tho that album is only proof of what im saying. A focused wutang with all the fixings and itll work.
masta killa had no problem with his albums whatsoever. Wu elemnts were dead when no said date came out too yet we all loved that album.
all 3 of those albums are better than griseldas best. Im not even tlking about the HOLY 7.
to say the beats are the problem and NOT the mcing is wow to me. The wu are nearing their 60s. You heard that? SIXTIES!!!! you think beats are gonna savw them? They aint hungry no more bro. They made their mark 30 fucking years ago. Of course griselda and roc sound fresher, they JUST MADE THEIR MARK NOW. You dont even realize WHY the beats have changed. If you did youd realize NOTHING griselda could do for wu would work anyway..
NUMBER 3. The REASON the beats are not the beats and why griselda CANT help wutang
wu tang.. a ten man crew.. CANNOT AFFORD TO SAMPLE THE WAY WE WANT ANYMORE!
Notice the second griselda drops on a major daringer couldnt even make beats no more for them cuz they all samples. THEIR MAJOR DEBUT WAS LACKLUSTER AS FUCK. WHY? Take away samples from daringer for a major release you have NOTHING. And yall DARE shit on THE RZA?????? Man. Fuck outta here. Ima fight up in here like its 98 wbo wanna go with this dumb opinion and COMPLETE DISREGARD FOR HISTORY.
again. People said rza fell off in 98. Plenty of classics since. In 2010 Yet when he was called in by kanye they dropped a fucking MONSTER of an album, album of the decade mind you. And what happened? RZA GOT SUED FOR SAMPLES.
Wu tabg is NOT shelling out 100k+ for samplws in 2020.. something an unknown griselda and dissapeared roc COULD DO in this era cause they were unknown and werent getting sued. You gonna sit down and pretend their shit hasnt already changed themselves since they came out? Cant even out half their shit on streaming because of that. Let wutang try that shit and see how fast they sued. Old wutang albums are filled with weird samples tht made the sound THE SOUND. The fact you think a sampleless roc/daringer is gonna outdo rza is fucking lol man. thinking that WITH SAMPLES... theyd outdo THE RZA WITH SAMPLES deserves a fucking BAN.
killah priest alone been shitting all over griselda with his releases since PWOWR. He literally just released 2 albums of dope music. The small freestyle tape over SAMPLELESS TRUE MASTER BEATS >>> the sample less major debut from griselda.
get ya hip hop history CORRECT before coming at me on some “wu elements” stan shit. Wu elemnts are the reason kanye, just blaze, madlib and dilla and doom and roc and griselda even have a fucking sound to play with.
the fact is the average fan dont even KNOW WHO THESE GUYS ARE. cannot name a single fucking song DESPITE everything you said.. Theyve had the popularity of ya avg underground rappers internet buzz for 5+ years and gunn complains about it every fucking interview that they arent known. They arent some endangered species of dope. Its all built on weird covers, limited edition releases for HYPEBEASTS.
AND If you think the diggs brothers are shelling out all that money so daringer can sample your fucking dumb bro. Just dumb. Retarded even. DARINGER IS WACK. if it wasnt for alvhemist who wu already worked with for fuvking years, idk where those dudes would be.
‘SCUST at you sir. Wu card RE fucking VOKED. Fuck off MY forum. #(
the end:
i just want wutang. Pure wutang. No other artist will or CAN bring them back. NOONE. Idc how hot said artist is, their are a variety of issues that prevent that from happening. See i aint the one looking to the past.. yall are. You actually believe GRISELDA. A homage based group.... lolzz... can “bring wutang back”. Its you who are blind to what happened with wutang. Not me. If anyone will do it it is themselves. No fucking new kid on the block is going to do that for them and if you a REAL wu fan you wouodnt want that anyway. All youd get is THE SAGA CONTINUES PT 2 with griselda production... if youd even get that at all due to all the issues ive stated above.
I changed my mind. I want Swizz Beatz to produce it.
I am still trying to figure out why Bone Thugs N Harmony signed to Full Surface. They must have been desperate
how bout an album produced by Bronze & Cilva that's like a beat battle with the Clan spittin verses over the beats....
Honestly think that'd be the best use of the production resources under the Clan umbrella rt now
^Not a bad idea, but I want Bronze to produce whole thing.. No one can beat him when on his A-game.. Check this one out and tell me you can’t hear Meth and Deck kill this! And yeah I know of course WTK and LA already did..
https://youtu.be/8shq8x_JBkA
Funny I listened to that Blades track yesterday for first time in years. Definite banger. Bronze’s grimy tracks are gold. But he seems to do more mellow soul tracks lately which gets a little blah to me. Peace
What the hell was that Forenzik rant about hahahahaha?
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Originally Posted by battle?
https://youtu.be/ZxU4B9PS9V0
Moon was steadily doing some beats in the Dutch scene for a while
https://youtu.be/S66q3GKKG-Q
LMAOQuote:
Originally Posted by ForensikZ
truth be told, they have been producing the last years. Wu-elements that is. But as much as I would like it to be insane, off the wall, next level Wu. It is just meh, and I lose interest. It has not evolved. Yes, I do get excited when people link up. Only to be grounded bu a quick realization that I can not name a dope track from the last 10-15 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollow Dartz
Shit, when I go over Wu's catalog. Most of the time I just get stuck in selecting tracks that are 15+ years old. And I am being gracious here.
hahahaha. this just reminds me of that Ricky Bobby quoteQuote:
Originally Posted by IronFizt
Quote:
Ricky Bobby : No one lives forever, no one. But with advances in modern science and my high level income, it's not crazy to think I can live to be 245, maybe 300. Heck, I just read in the newspaper that they put a pig heart in some guy from Russia. Do you know what that means?
As far as I see it, there was a vision with these first albums. And also for Supreme Clientele. A certain message or story being played out. Which made the thing work as a coherent piece. This vision was most of the time led by RZA. (Correct, me if I'm wrong.) Which also mixed and put together the whole album as one piece. And not a a collage of sorts with different kind of snapshots from a roadtrip of the last years. IN that sense it would not matter much who you have to produce. As long as that vision is there, as long as all these tracks are stitched together as one set piece. And I think that is what everybody is longing for.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee3
Also, what the fuck do you have to show for if you have been touring non stop for the last X years. Sit down, go on a sabbatical, and go look at the world for a bit. I think that would give you a lot more inspiration than the pretty closed circuit of shows shows shows.
https://youtu.be/jrLk3R9rk2IQuote:
Originally Posted by ShaDynasty
That would be Wu-Tang Clan ft. Swizz Beats on every track. hahahahahahahahahaha
Also, I'm pretty sure Araab did this beat. And maybe laid the foundation for a bulk of that last Swizz album.
Swizz should stop hanging around Araab Muzik before he ends up dead, he seems to be a bullet magnet..
What makes you say that? The bullet thing?Quote:
Originally Posted by David Daniel Davis
As far as I see it, there was a vision with these first albums. And also for Supreme Clientele. A certain message or story being played out. Which made the thing work as a coherent piece. This vision was most of the time led by RZA. (Correct, me if I'm wrong.) Which also mixed and put together the whole album as one piece. And not a a collage of sorts with different kind of snapshots from a roadtrip of the last years. IN that sense it would not matter much who you have to produce. As long as that vision is there, as long as all these tracks are stitched together as one set piece. And I think that is what everybody is longing for.
Also, what the fuck do you have to show for if you have been touring non stop for the last X years. Sit down, go on a sabbatical, and go look at the world for a bit. I think that would give you a lot more inspiration than the pretty closed circuit of shows shows shows.[/QUOTE]
True Rza had a vision when it came to the first rounds of wu releases. After that everyone became stars on their own and been questioning hes visions for wu albums since iron flag. Wich I see is their weakest group album and for me came out of nowhere.
Nowdays everyone seem to have their own vision when it comes to albums thats why you saw all that drama with mostly Rae and Ghost being vocal about the big vision of their last two albums.
I think the touring isnt really the biggest issue in this its that they all grew up and moved away from eachother. They got their own things that they run and they got kids now aswell.
As I wrote in a earlier post. Rent a mansion i a calm area sit down and throw ideas at eachother. Go party with eachother and find that spark. And we might get another banging album.
I read that a few songs that was ment for cl2 ended up on 8 diagrams for example so imagine how cl2 would sound with those songs instead of the filler songs we got.
The bullet thing is he got shot a couple of different times within the past few years.
i agree with jaydee3 , RZAs vision and was 100 percent dedicated to production all in
Since he is a busy man kinda in Hollywood thats not a good thing for his production style & vision
To me the worst clan album is A better Tomorrow , Theres beats on that album RZA made that are for a Movie OST type
and not a hardcore Wu Tang clan group album, also he wanted to experiment with live instrumentals with the beats , Iron Flag at least also 2nd worst but at least
the beats were hard.
But like jaydee said the vision has to be right , Bronze could definetely produce tracks, i dont agree that hes boring but an Entire clan album would be more of a Bronze Nazareth vs Wu Tang (Like Mathematics album) .
Daringer could do some tracks , Mostly what i heard are slow tempo beats I dunno if that would be good for an Entire clan i dont think so
4th Disciple should be involved,
To me the last two albums felt like it was rushed put together.
Maybe the best thing is to pick a team of good producers and sit down or something , Let the clan members also pick the production and RZA be involved in some way . Not rush it
All of them are cool, but Cilvaringz is for the children. I keep saying it.
For me personally, there are a couple of key elements that need to come together to make a great hip-hop/Wu-tang ALBUM (as opposed to just a collection of tracks).
1) Production cohesion. Bronze produced albums always sound like albums. The tracks usually complement each other. Similar sound palette. High quality. Rarely a dud. This is music at the end of the day - so if the beats suck, just quit.
2) Features/A&R. Obviously Wu fans usually want to hear fam members only on Wu-tang albums. I get that. But the direction the game is moving, and the way in which verses are being monetised through brokering (see M-Eighty's hustle), it's easy to end up with labels/A&Rs placing random verses on tracks that the artists have never heard. The result is a "copy and paste" feel - and you can often spot them a mile away, just by looking at the track list and features (Ghostface X Big Ghost Ltd for example - another M-Eighty creation).
Cilva - from what I understand, this is kind of what you did with OUATIS (i.e. collecting verses over time and splicing together a project). We never heard it, so I can't comment on whether or not it hurt the end product. But the fact is, tracks and albums will always sound better if a group of people are in the studio together, building, sharing ideas and feeding of each other's energy to create the end product.
Get the production right. Get the right people in the studio. 2 key elements, which people struggle to get right these days. But I get it - it's not easy to pull off with an older crew who have their own separate lives.
And if I was in Cilva's position (or even M-Eighty's or Remedy's) I can't say I wouldn't be collecting those verses myself. If it's the difference between a project not existing or existing, I think I'd still take the spliced Frankenrhymes.
OUATIS is definitely NOT random verse placements. All verses were recorded specifically for the tracks, sometimes with more members present. There's back n forth tracks, line for line. There's skits where everyone plays a role. If you wree to ever hear it, you'd hear a far more cohesive vocal pattern than most of their later work. Now the new one I worked on, that's far more copy n paste. And you can ask Hal, Buddah Mac and Radioactive Man how that sounded.
I like your 'similar sound palette' note though. I think it's true for all the first albums... but do you feel it's the same for Forever and Iron Man?
I think I missed this, but what's this "new one" album in the works?
Ironman - yes to an extent.
Forever just opened up whole new chapters to the sound.
In terms of people who really create great albums with a cohesive sound today - you've got Bronze, Muggs and Roc Marciano. Others too I'm sure - but off the top of my head, those guys.
Sounded really damned good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
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I like your 'similar sound palette' note though. I think it's true for all the first albums... but do you feel it's the same for Forever and Iron Man?
Those albums RZA & elements were showing off the length & breadth what they could do as opposed to the earlier albums where he'd make them cohesive with an overall dominant instrument as a theme (guitars on ODB's, strings on OB4CL, keys on LS).
Ironman is my favorite overall RZA produced album for that reason. RZA takes all the various pieces of the Wu sound to that point and condenses it down to have the sequencing and the emceeing coalesce the songs together. Like, going from the laid back breathy Camay to the buzzing frenetic Daytona to the plodding mournful keys of Motherless to the uptempo orchestral Black Jesus should be jarring and schizophrenic but because of what they established and how they transition into each other with intros & skits it all flows seamlessly.
I love that album front to back & will often even play the instrumental w/ all those extended tracks w/ extra RZA noodling with the beats (Do you know the story behind that at all Ringz? I've never heard anyone speak on it.)
Forever was similarly a showcase for what Wu could do production wise but it always came across a collection of songs rather than a sculpted album. I love that collection of songs, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't feel like the time was taken to have flow together and that's why the sharp turns with different sounds from song to song were more jarring while still having top notch production throughout. (Which, by the way, does fit a Wu album very well. Expressing 9-10 plus different personalities on an album should feel more schizophrenic while a solo should pare down to one aspect of that chaos.) And, next Wu album, RZA went back to his emphasizing an instrument throughout technique like the 95 solos in pushing the drums to the forefront to give that a cohesive feel in the production.
The Cilvaringz album is heat rocks front to back and side to side. Really, it's that good.
A atep by step manual noone can refute. Basically, wu need to be originators not trend chasers. Thats what RUINED them in 2000s.Quote:
Originally Posted by zooruka
theres no point in saying “wu beats will be wack, but them rhyming on new producers will make their songs better”
wus weakness has been songwriting for a long time. No new producers are going to help them get over that and everyone with any semblance of knowledge of their history knows it aint happening in a group that size where every dollar counts.
whos replaying the last 2 raekwon albums? The last 6 ghostface copy and pste jobs? Meth lab etc etc
new producers. Same result just even worse. Last rae solo i can remember loving is butter knives which reenforces the point of wu needing wu production.
and that noone can name more than maybe 5 great (not even classic) songs on any release griselda has, so to sayvtheyve earned the RIGHT to produce a wu album is fucking insane. The beats on 8 diagrams, the w, iron flag >>> all their albums production and people bitch about later rza shits cuz they not the first run. Rza didnt even peak until 99-00’s ghostsog, supreme clientele, the w, bpw production styles but have these guys tell it , it ended in 97.
To say rza is wack for wu right now yet new artists have been using his beats where hes still doing sessions like earl sweatshirt - mollasses, nas - tanasia and highly favored, the kanye tracks, the rnb tracks for snow alegrah - emotional, tanashe - doctor, asap mob - what happens
yet im supposed to be excited for some mediocre knock off shit cause rzas beats on ONE ALBUM were totally wrong (minus 3-5 tracks) im good on that. Ill wait another 88 years before i want to see that happen.
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Originally Posted by ForensikZ
I agree
How the hell did they go from 93-97 to the W and all the other subsequent stuff they released after that?
So lets analyze.. What is it exactly you guys think went wrong and when did it start to go wrong for you?
97/ Peaking on Wu tang Forever/ The Rage Against The Machine Tour?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
Bobby Digital maybe even? As much as I love RZA, this was a bad move. Peace
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
As far as I have learned now, Dirty played a huge role in getting grounded again. As ironic as this sounds. But I think him going to jail, and his subsequent death played a huge role in the decline of the Clan. Combine this with factors as ageing and everybody going their own route. The aforementioned trend chasing, and thus a lack of vision.
For myself, I remember when I first came here I was one of those people that was fiending for a 'hardcore wu sound.' Whatever the fuck that was. But nowadays I am way more open to just good fucking music. And not the same snoozefest of 'hardcore wu sounds.'
Ah, there is so much more to note down. But I feel I must go out now and enjoy the sun for a moment.
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Originally Posted by ForensikZ
I dont think Wu fell off lyrically at all, in my opinion they need the right production which is a hard task , RZAs production style & mindset is totally different since hes a busy man anyways. You are not going to get the hard shit from him right now
I dont think letting RZA do the whole thing again is a good idea anyways , It will be hard to match wu first two albums because RZA was incredible , i already posted but get the absolute best shit from wu element production & others might not be bad idea
let the clan members pick the beats, RZA be involved of course to do his magic with other producers production mixing wu samples in etc. , i agree with greselda doing the entire production not entirely ( just a track or two )
look at Raekwons - House of Flying daggers it was prod by j Dilla , which if you ask me i wouldnt think j dilla produced it if i didnt know (of course they added the wu formula to the beat) but it brought the best out of them lyrically
Yes, Jay Dee did an excellent job of catering to the Wu Tang sound.