Sunz Of Man - Behold [Demo]

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Originally Posted by Cilvaringz

On your second point though, I must agree with the geeks, I hate it when I hear a recycled verse. I'd rather have all new verses. Not that I haven't done it before, but I'm a purist in that way.

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Same here. Can't stand recycled verses - it just highlights the fact that the track/album has been spliced together, which affects my enjoyment. Wish it didn't because it's pretty naive of me to think all projects are crafted in the studio with everyone together in the room. I know that's not realistic these days and that most people are just hitting up M-Eighty for features... ugh. Oh well.

Also, as far as I am aware, Razah has only released one project of new verses since his health problems - search for "Heaven Razah - Recovery" on streaming platforms. It's kinda hard to listen to though. He can just about get the words out, but the flow is gone. I hope he heals up - in his prime he was one of the best.

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Originally Posted by Lord Ganesh

Where are all these costs coming from. The artist, the producer, the egineer? I not sure if publishing is expensive or not. I know there are many companies out there, ex. cdbaby which got absorbed by Amazon, can print up like 50 cd's for like $300-400 with options like cardboard or sleeve inserts, etc... So once all parties come to an agreement as to whose getting paid what, what is stopping them. It comes down to time & making that time, work ethics, etc... The perfect example of this is Dom Pachino. You think he poors a ton of money in for no return. No, he puts in very little revenue for a large return. It's a business! Every business though has exactly what their customers want. It has been far past due as far as you Ringz. Never got a Linz Brothers or a sophomore album. I'm just saying. peace

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I'm a bit excessive after the OUATIS first class approach to mixing when I had Kanye's engineer do the whole album. Can't stand home mixes anymore. So that's a cost. I took good time with designs and making sure they're right, so that's a cost. It's always full package for me. I'd rather have you pay more and get something that's worth it, rather than pushing it out cheap. That said, I'd love to know what PR's returns are. Think he'd tell me? lol them Bugsy albums are dope though. Not sure anyone is waiting for Lin Bros sophomore. That's funny.

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Originally Posted by Goldenchild

I think the Sunz of Man and other affiliates have little chance of making serious money, let alone getting mainstream attention. I thought Cilva could sign with a label of his choosing and get them some attention, but that’s apparently not the case. Now I think it’s just about recording a passion project for the sake of art and legacy (for the affiliates). But that requires time and money.

Cilva was on the verge of doing just that with Killa Sin before he got locked up. But I have to ask, what exactly was the goal for that project? I assumed Cilva was doing it as a “charity case” for Sin, giving him some shine, knowing he wouldn’t make much profit. Again, what was the goal for that project?

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With Sin i felt there was actually a viable market that we could tap into, and I wasn't the only one. I know E1 definitely wanted to do an album with him. Would've been a dream project too. He was 'rusty' coming out of jail to do OUATIS and he still murdered everyone on every track, like... easy.

Ironically the Shaolin album could be the best legacy/material Killa Sin leaves behind as an artist—that is, if his verses are truly that exceptional AND he never gets paroled. It’s a bittersweet end for an overlooked MC. Too bad he didn’t give Cilva verses before going to prison.

Canibus gave Stoupe the Enemy of Mankind verses before joining the Army and in turn Stoupe produced his best album, Rip the Jacker. Canibus admitted to going to Best Buy to buy the CD and that was the first time he actually heard the album and it made him cry. Make fun of him all you want but that album is his legacy and he had NO input. Fortunately, Stoupe is a monster beat maker who was in his prime in 2003, so Canibus got lucky

From what I heard, Sin really slaughtered everybody.

Sin really is the dopest. I hope everyone recognizes, realizes, elevates and propagates how great a talent he was and is and continues to push everything he ever did and will do.

As with this track, Ringz is trying to realize the "Sunz" essence with no promise of commercial or critical viability.

But the effort and attempt need to be applauded. There's barely any physical releases, streaming nets fractions of cents on the dollar but Cilva's still extending into the void to try and see what viability, if any, might be available for such content that is true to the consumers of "Wu/Sunz".

Most of you threw fits when he tried to include you in attempts to perfect a project that ultimately ended up being private.

Realize your opportunity here to weigh in and honestly assess something that will form in some regard and, even if it ultimately ends up in something you can't enjoy yourself, you know you helped to make it the best of things for everyone.

Thank you Buddah.

Yo Ringz,
Have you tried to reach out to Shabazz The Disciple??
I know he and Razah have their issues, but Shabazz is one of the most talented Wu-Affiliates out there

Bazz and I stay talking. Would love to do a whole album with him, he's awesome.

^That would be dope! You ever talk to La the Darkman? I remember you mentioned a collabo that was in the works a few years back. What’s the status on that?

We went from Killa Sin to Shabazz to La the Darkman. We're going down the totem pole here.

There's gotta be one General interested. Deck makes music with corny Czarface, so he's gotta be down for a Cilva collaboration. Tell him you'll recreate the album he lost in the flood. Too bad Shyheim isn't reaching out

I speak to LA on the daily. Re:Shyheim, I sent a whole batch right after he got home... never heard anything again... Killa's interested to work but needs a situation on the table, I prefer to work first and then look for the situation... timing and opinions always the culprit

Czarface is best thing to happen to Deck. If it wasn’t for them he would still be rapping over his sh!tty solo career beats. Ringz hasn’t had a beat on a Wu project in over a decade and most of the Clan/Bees are still probably salty about Shaolin. So there is no insert Clan member name here or affiliate/Ringz album coming. Peace

Salty... but maybe true?

Ringz' 'Rollercoaster' came on spotify yesterday and I thought that would make a great Deck track.

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Originally Posted by Cilvaringz

Bazz and I stay talking. Would love to do a whole album with him, he's awesome.

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That would be insane, would support the project right away

I talk to the guy next to me at work everyday and that doesn’t mean sh!t. Keep dreaming of these collabos that are not happening. Peace

The Hulu series taught me that the rappers don’t know what’s good for them and the producers are the smart ones.

I contacted Shyheim about working with Cilva and his reply was the laughing emoji, so that’s where he’s at lol. Didn’t he lay down some verses for the Shaolin album? Are these mfs STILL salty?

Cappa did an entire (solid) album with Stu Bangas, who’s a nobody, but can’t do one with Cilva?

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Originally Posted by josborne3680

I talk to the guy next to me at work everyday and that doesn’t mean sh!t. Keep dreaming of these collabos that are not happening. Peace

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Damn, we never gonna get that josborne360 X guy at his work album.

He’s having problems clearing samples. Hahahahha. Peace

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Originally Posted by Cilvaringz

I speak to LA on the daily. Re:Shyheim, I sent a whole batch right after he got home... never heard anything again... Killa's interested to work but needs a situation on the table, I prefer to work first and then look for the situation... timing and opinions always the culprit

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For all of my projects (literary, not musical) I always first assemble a team, put out a topic and guidelines and only when everybody (or most) has/have started and the first results starts dripping in, do I shop the project around. It's hard to shop a project based on the idea alone, although sometimes it works. I'm always upfront about this: we start the project, for now it's independent, while you're at it I look for high end outlets. So far it's always worked out

The difference with Sin and other people in a tight spot is probably that they need up front financial security, which is understandable. But that is hard to attain in today's creative market when you helm the project. There is less money in non mainstream creative projects than people realize. It's a cutthroat market with many many people offering up creative projects and outlets who want to play it safe and have the pick of the litter.

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Originally Posted by Goldenchild

The Hulu series taught me that the rappers don’t know what’s good for them and the producers are the smart ones.

I contacted Shyheim about working with Cilva and his reply was the laughing emoji, so that’s where he’s at lol. Didn’t he lay down some verses for the Shaolin album? Are these mfs STILL salty?

Cappa did an entire (solid) album with Stu Bangas, who’s a nobody, but can’t do one with Cilva?

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Wouldn't call Stu Bangas a nobody, but if that's your take, that's your take.

Agreed^. Has done full albums with Cappa, Apathy, Ill Bill, Recognize Ali, Blacastan, RJ Payne, Chino XL, Esoteric, and maybe more. Peace

Cappa did the Stu Bangas album because M-Eighty paid him to do the Stu Bangas album. It’s that simple.

Wu will work for money. No matter who the producer.

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Originally Posted by CL2coming

Cappa did the Stu Bangas album because M-Eighty paid him to do the Stu Bangas album. It’s that simple.

Wu will work for money. No matter who the producer.

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Bong Bong . well with the exception if they dont personally respect the producer or not enough amount of money being offered .

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Originally Posted by Goldenchild

The Hulu series taught me that the rappers don’t know what’s good for them and the producers are the smart ones.

I contacted Shyheim about working with Cilva and his reply was the laughing emoji, so that’s where he’s at lol. Didn’t he lay down some verses for the Shaolin album? Are these mfs STILL salty?

Cappa did an entire (solid) album with Stu Bangas, who’s a nobody, but can’t do one with Cilva?

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I guess there's plenty of saltyness left for OUATIS that isn't going away soon. Ah well.. we'll find a way, somehow. :)

Dope track. I would pay for a full LP of this quality.

Where is the LAD mixtape ?

Yeah I just listened again. I don't understand the hate... I'd love more of this