Does Geometry prove a God's Existence?

I love the way people ignore my post...

i read ur post and am familiar with that.. the concept that im getting at is that the concept of 180 degrees is still a humanoid construct. so it doesnt matter if we adhere to euclidean, Lobachevsky, or Reumanian. but i understand ur point.

the concept of a triangle is a symbolic humanoid construct... the value assigned to it is arbitrary (within the realm of whatever mathematical system is adhered to)

triangles existing or uniform mathematical concept existing, does not offer evidence for a higher power... (ur post proved this)

i didnt ignore ur post

peace

the sad thing i see a lot is that for those who believe in nothing, believe that humans have figured out almost everything.
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Brunette Interracial

so so so far from the truth.

those who dont believe in a god totally accept that we dont know much! thats why they are continually in pursuit of true knowledge instead of assuming everything is the manifestation of a higher power

first of all, I believe in God...i think that a lot of the disillusionment that is connected with religion and the concept of a God in general is engendered by the dilution of a lot of the basic principles and teachings by humans for personal interests of power and other egocentric aims.
we as people are supercilious and arrogant enough to think that, because this is all we are used to, this is automatically all there is. this physical world is nothing more than an extended metephor for the real, spiritual realm...we are all trapped souls on a physical plane of existence.
its funny how scientists are, stereotypically at least, against the idea of religion, when science really is nothing more than attempts to explain God's creation. i think the law of entropy concisely proves that there is some higher power...it states that if you put energy into something, then it will in general be better off than if you left it alone, in which case it would decay or deteriorate. much is the same with our situation...if there was no higher power, how could there be us? we are intelligent, coherent beings, and so it is impossible for us to arise from nothing...unless you consider the entity of nature to have some intellectual advantage over the human race. its like there couldnt be inventions if there were no inventors...
there is no such thing as death...that's a very subjective, limited view on the passage of one's essence from one stage to another...
great thread by the way.

peace

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its funny how scientists are, stereotypically at least, against the idea of religion, when science really is nothing more than attempts to explain God's creation. i think the law of entropy concisely proves that there is some higher power...it states that if you put energy into something, then it will in general be better off than if you left it alone, in which case it would decay or deteriorate. much is the same with our situation...if there was no higher power, how could there be us? we are intelligent, coherent beings, and so it is impossible for us to arise from nothing...unless you consider the entity of nature to have some intellectual advantage over the human race. its like there couldnt be inventions if there were no inventors...

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this is a long running weak argument for the existence of a god.

1st and foremost, entropy and the laws of thermodynamics do not accurately apply to us and our universe in the way you are simplyfying it!

basically what you are stating is that things "more time than not" , "tend" to always go from order to disorder when ever energy is put into something and it is left at rest.. THIS IS NOT TRUE AT ALL and is a major misconception people have about the laws of thermodynamics!

a simplified schoolyard example would be if i had a bottle of oil and water and shook it up (thus adding kinetic energy.. among other things).. the kinetic energy i just added causes everything o mix...,, but if i leave this bottle at rest (with a lack of energy) it with revert to a state of ORDERED EXISTENCE (oil sitting uniformly atop the water).. thus.. the bottle was a manifestation of choas going to order instead of order going to chaos

2ndly.. science doesnt try to xplain god's creation.. this is irrational first and foremost because this premise assumes the existence of a god to begin with! science is OBJECTIVE.. it simply explains what is out there and how our world works irrespective of how a person's belief system is... to be more accurate.. religion and groundless claims of a supernatural god. tend to make one contempt with ignorance....

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if there was no higher power, how could there be us? we are intelligent, coherent beings, and so it is impossible for us to arise from nothing...unless you consider the entity of nature to have some intellectual advantage over the human race. its like there couldnt be inventions if there were no inventors...

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this seems to be the crux of the issue.. as i have always noticed.. all arguments against science (the majority) and all arguments for the existence of a god, rely on a question instead of presenting a valid claim. it is well known how humans arose on this planet and it does not require immediate belief in a supernatural higher power

this is also known as the weak "watchmaker" argument that was put to rest about 100 years ago. its irrational.

one cannot assume existence of a highr being simply do to perceived complexity of life. first of all, complexity is a subjective assessment. (complex compared to what?) is the homo sapien really that more complex than ecoli bacterium? no, not at all.

what makes that argument even more absurd and irrational is the fact that if complex intelligent things require a higher power to create them.. what created God?

"god" is allegedly a complex higher being, thus by ur argument and implied logic... god himslef (or herself depending on ur culture and religion) must of been created by an even more greater power......

in a nutshell.. what gives one the right to irrationally stop and the one particular concept of god they believe in... logically the chain of the "first cause" can stretch back to infiniti

so the argument of complexity arising froma higher power is irrational if its going to assume that that higher power is a god.

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Originally Posted by MantiZ

hmm it's a good argument.
i think proportions of human body are good argument too. i know that it's evolution, but still body of a healthy man has perfect geometrical proportions.

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not true.. there is no perfect symmetry in man

our brains have evolved to "like" symmetry, but symmetry is not present in perfect form in humanity... our brains interpret symmetry as fertile and healthy...

there are solid evolutionary reasons for this.

yeah you most certainly have the upper hand on me in a scientific dialogue, but when i said that science is nothing more than attempts to explain God's existence, i wasnt trying to define the state of mind that scientists have when they delve into their field...
when i put forth the theory of entropy in relation to God, i was just trying to provide a simplified analogy...obviously there are aspects of this arguement that arent empirically able to be proved. i dont believe that you can apply physical laws that govern our world to spiritual matters, certainly not God...but at the same time, realize that this is not an arguement against science, on the contrary, i have the utmost appreciation and respect for it...its a shame that usually science and religion are pitted aginst each other continuously, when in reality it shouldnt be such a conflict.
i have a belief in religion, and systematic revelations that God sends to us through Prophets and Manifestations..most people see religion as a divisive illusion of no truth, but it is mainly people who have made theology so cloudy.
just because things can't be physically proven according to the laws that govern the world that we live in, doesnt necessarily mean that they aren't 'real'. i think this perception is one that is very constraining...one in which everything has to be measured for its existence to be proven.
much respect for the conversation...

peace and respect 2 u too :)

dont get me wrong.. i personally believe that religion was the most beneficial thing that ever happened to homo sapiens.. i dont confuse religion with "god".. to me they are 2 different things.

religion provides so many positive things (almost all positive)

my problem i swith the concept of an invisible supernatural higher power

Of course....even if someone knows geometry and some values given with universal properties....they know enough to apply it in day to day applications.

When someone knows these properties well enough...and good with manipulating numbers, they might be able to predict what a change in a universal property as we know them, could do to the universe.

However, it would be hard to explain why these values are "set" the way that they are and likely always have been since the big bang. That means it is easiest to think if someone (like a god) had some kind of control panel of the universe and set those values (as we know them from the number system) in.

This really belongs in KTL

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Originally Posted by Prolifical ENG

Of course....even if someone knows geometry and some values given with universal properties....they know enough to apply it in day to day applications.

When someone knows these properties well enough...and good with manipulating numbers, they might be able to predict what a change in a universal property as we know them, could do to the universe.

However, it would be hard to explain why these values are "set" the way that they are and likely always have been since the big bang. That means it is easiest to think if someone (like a god) had some kind of control panel of the universe and set those values (as we know them from the number system) in.

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but these values are only "set" because we created the scoring system and logic that houses them

I agree with TeknicelStylez, this belongs in Know the Ledge

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Originally Posted by My First Timbs

but these values are only "set" because we created the scoring system and logic that houses them

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I know, thats why I put "set" in quotations :D

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This really belongs in KTL

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Yes, earlier on today I put a request in the KTL sticky. THis thread was created before the new KTL was made....Timbs resurected this thread.

yeah GOD existence is real. in fact it is foolish to think other wise

the point is that entropy or whatever. There has to be intelligence for things to come into order.

moved.

Many see this God in Many different ways

God isn't the same for all

there are many levels of this

many who say they believe in God has never read anything that has been written about God

and never really done any study on themselves as to why they believe in such

this is where the conflict starts

and it needs to be sort out before all can elevate

the word 'believe' suggests a measure of uncertainty

a person who says they 'believe' is admitting they are unsure

...and yet they are willing to argue anyway

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Originally Posted by LHX

the word 'believe' suggests a measure of uncertainty

a person who says they 'believe' is admitting they are unsure

...and yet they are willing to argue anyway

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this is true and we all do this in some way when dealing with other subjects

why does one argue about what one does not know ?



off subject -

what is the opposite to ctrl - z ?

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Originally Posted by Wooly Noggins

this is true and we all do this in some way when dealing with other subjects

why does one argue about what one does not know ?

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it gotta be a pride / ego thing

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off subject -

what is the opposite to ctrl - z ?

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?

the keys on the pc keyboard

Ctrl-z


is there a opposite to it

Ctrl-z is like an automatic backspace

if you hold down Ctrl-z it will erase a portion of what you write

is there an opposite ?

something that will write something you havent written yet?

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Originally Posted by LHX

something that will write something you havent written yet?

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lol nah man forget it

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Originally Posted by SubtleEnergies

the point is that entropy or whatever. There has to be intelligence for things to come into order.

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not at all

i dont know why ppl cling to this belief..

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Originally Posted by LHX

something that will write something you havent written yet?

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lmao !! good answer

no - something that will retrieve what you have written and lost

edit-- undo?

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Originally Posted by Wooly Noggins

no - something that will retrieve what you have written and lost

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nope unless youve saved what youve written..

btw why press ctrl n z anyway? pretty random when u know it will delete everything u wrote!



as for the question..

i dont think geometry is the only mean of determining the whole idea of God and deleting it when flaws have been found.

geometry asks our mind to use a 3D perceptive view to understand logic.
a triangle is a triangle in our mind.. the logic behind it is born from there.

however let me put the limitations of geometry to explain God into perspective.

Quantum Physics and Metaphysics... shows that our ideaology on Earth is limited to viewing everything in 3D.. we see what we see through our eyes which too has flaws.

in terms of the whole universe.. our mind cannot comprehend everything as we are trapped by our own physical limitations and understanding.

entire universe is very vast and has dimensions that are not comprehendable to the naked mind which is trapped in our body most of the times.

the space/time theory shows that.. the issue of time in the universe indicated that there are dimensions which exist alongside ours.. it is because we travel in a certain degree of light and speed.. that we cannot connect with the other dimensions...

you see what i am saying here is that... the geometry we are talking of is the one which is comprehendable to our mind influenced by our physicalities.
geometry is not simple and pinpoint.. it is complex and continues to develop when we apply the space/time theory here as well.. because we must start seing things in 4D which shows the new dimensions.. however as we cannot do that.. geometry cannot be used to argue or counterargue God at all..

Quantum Physics is a betr option

peace and blessings

good topic

when i understood the principle of uncertainty

it blew my mind


it was all over after that
i couldnt recover

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Originally Posted by Princerai

nope unless youve saved what youve written..

btw why press ctrl n z anyway? pretty random when u know it will delete everything u wrote!

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it deletes a portion at a time
not the whole thing
lol but nevermind

quantum mechanics and physics of particles at the quantum level is indeed the future to human understanding

its all ancient knowledge

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Originally Posted by My First Timbs

quantum mechanics and physics of particles at the quantum level is indeed the future to human understanding

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yes indeed.. finally somebody who knows something about this.

you see these are the emans by which man can now see the universe on a wider level..

the fact that the universe is still bases on randomness yet works like a clock most of the times.. leaves the important room for the mere idea of God.

as well as lay down how God would be necessary to control randomness.. and why on Earth.. there is so much evil and what makes people so confused as to why God made what he did.

its because man sees through a small mind, that we only see what we do.. quantum future indicates that there is a common consciousness and a God who is the master of this.

quantum physics lays down the realm that.. God is no spook, but an essentuial form/ which cannot be seen due to SPACE/TIME theory, yet a force/consciousness to which we become united with.

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Originally Posted by LHX

its all ancient knowledge

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indeed ancient knowledge elevated through the mind..

now its a modern phenomenon elevated through science matter

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Originally Posted by Princerai

the fact that the universe is still bases on randomness yet works like a clock most of the times.. leaves the important room for the mere idea of God.

as well as lay down how God would be necessary to control randomness.. and why on Earth.. there is so much evil and what makes people so confused as to why God made what he did.

its because man sees through a small mind, that we only see what we do.. quantum future indicates that there is a common consciousness and a God who is the master of this.

quantum physics lays down the realm that.. God is no spook, but an essentuial form/ which cannot be seen due to SPACE/TIME theory, yet a force/consciousness to which we become united with.

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i think this still complicates the issue too much

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yes indeed.. finally somebody who knows something about this.

you see these are the emans by which man can now see the universe on a wider level..

the fact that the universe is still bases on randomness yet works like a clock most of the times.. leaves the important room for the mere idea of God.

as well as lay down how God would be necessary to control randomness.. and why on Earth.. there is so much evil and what makes people so confused as to why God made what he did.

its because man sees through a small mind, that we only see what we do.. quantum future indicates that there is a common consciousness and a God who is the master of this.

quantum physics lays down the realm that.. God is no spook, but an essentuial form/ which cannot be seen due to SPACE/TIME theory, yet a force/consciousness to which we become united with.
__________________

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i agree with you wholeheartedly!

my "crusade" is against the superstitious concept of an almighty father figure.. not the potential of of a "God" that is shed light on thru understanding of quantum mechanics.

imo the idea and concept of "god" that is hinted toward when one understands quantum physics is greater and mor epowerful and more far reaching than any concept of a supernatural father figure.. it makes all of that look like backwater nonsense.. if a "god" exists, the concept is so unimaginable and greater than what religion has ever conceived!

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Originally Posted by LHX

i think this still complicates the issue too much

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yes.. but the truth is soemthing that everybody thinks they have found..

it it was all that simple.. there is no need to debate..

the mind/sceince/universe/god is a complex matter..


quantum thought is definitely another new/old step to view things

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Originally Posted by LHX

i think this still complicates the issue too much

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its complicated but imo necessary for trying to understand the essense of what is meant by "god"

thru quantum mechanics we are led to believe or conclude that among other things, the world at its most distilled form must be under the control (or atleast vigilance) of a silent observer.. an "objective lens" thru which all exists

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Originally Posted by My First Timbs

i agree with you wholeheartedly!

my "crusade" is against the superstitious concept of an almighty father figure.. not the potential of of a "God" that is shed light on thru understanding of quantum mechanics.

imo the idea and concept of "god" that is hinted toward when one understands quantum physics is greater and mor epowerful and more far reaching than any concept of a supernatural father figure.. it makes all of that look like backwater nonsense.. if a "god" exists, the concept is so unimaginable and greater than what religion has ever conceived!

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i so agree here.. much props..

indeed the God explained thorugh these emans is definitely more powerful than any man depiction.. because we see the entire truth much more deeply..

scinece can always erase the God that religion depicts.. but never the picture of God which IS. (imo i respect ur position)

opeace