WAKE THE FUCK UP!}:TQuote:
Originally Posted by B O T
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WAKE THE FUCK UP!}:TQuote:
Originally Posted by B O T
hispanics with no legal papers do more than a ghetto black with a citizenship, social security, medicaid
and start doing what?Quote:
Originally Posted by -aid4afrika-
very great topic,all im gonna say is martin luther king and all those blacks who died to make a better standard of living for the future black race must be rolling in their graves right now...its really really sad,im glad im staying educated
Quote:
Originally Posted by graveyard_shifter
the point about king is spot on.
Theres a thread in the hip-hop forum about beanie segal calling out kanye and pharell for dressing nice and shit. This is part of the whole ignorance thing on the real. You got money why the fuck you wanna look like some bumy thug. Step your shit up for real.
Thank you. Just because you're a black man shouldn't mean you have to dress in 5x t-shirts, air ones, saggin pants, etc. Ignorance!Quote:
Originally Posted by whitey
yeah but as intelligent black hispanic man its hard for me to find a job even with a college degree and connections its like i got something against meQuote:
Originally Posted by CID DIGITAL
hah as an intelligent white man its not a whole lot easier. its all who you know type of bullshit now a days.
I agree with Beanie Siegel that Kanye and Pharrell do wear some gay clothes but i also think that rappers should wear dress suits, dress pants, dress shirts, dress shoes sometimes instead of always looking like a thug wearing big t shirts, baggy jeans, boots or sneakers. I don't know why it's hard to get a good job. If a person has the experience and the credentials, you should get the job no matter what color you are. The world is fucked up and that's never gonna change because there's always gonna be racist, ignorant, jealous people who don't wanna see other people succeed.
Bigben i agree with what you said and the inner city schools should do better like fix up the schools, get new text books, computers, fix up the library and get new books. Most inner city schools don't even have libraries. I believe the problem is most black youth don't wanna learn and that's why the inner city schools are fucked up because the school administration feels like why should they fix up the schools and get things for the students when most of them don't wanna learn a damn thing. School teachers at inner city schools need to help the black kids who have low test scores and don't do good with their homework because these kids aren't getting help from their parents. School teachers at inner city schools also need to get paid good salaries because i'm sure their salaries aren't that good. It's a damn shame that pro athletes, movie and tv actors, rappers, singers get paid more than school teachers. That's not right. School teachers prepare students for the future so they can get a good job when they graduate and because of that, they should be rewarded with a good salary. I feel bad for school teachers at inner city schools because they also have to be concerned about their safety because you got stupid ass ignorant black kids beating up teachers. Did ya'll hear about that white school teacher that got beat up by 2 students in Pennsylvania? He got beat up because he took a Ipod from a student because the student was listening to it while he was teaching class.
I don't care what some of ya'll say. Like i said, people shouldn't be getting paid minimum wage period. That's slavery to me. I know there are some people who aren't smart and that's why they have to get minimum wage jobs but people still need to be able to take care of themselves and how can you do that when you're getting paid $5.50, $6 a hour? That shit is crazy. As much as rent is going up everyday, prices of food is going up, gas prices are going up, car prices are going up, people should be making at least $12 a hour and more.
If things don't change it has nothing to do with white people's racist society, nor is it the ignorant, or jealous people....the people who keep saying things won't change is what's keeping things the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJones
I see, it's not ok for rappers to dress how they dress (jeans & t-shirt) but it's ok for some 20-60 year old rocker dude to wear the same thing except all ripped up?
Dress code for rappers: basically anything goes, they got that freedom and they got there dress code. Don't be mad because you have to coform to whatever dress code you are made to wear, they are rappers not the president of IBM.
All "thugs" (I'd guess most people here really don't know what a thug really is but whatever) don't wear jeans and a t-shirt....but when ignorant people start talking about society without really knowing what really good, then you have stereotype ideas of what this and what that is.
All black men don't dress like that. Ignorance!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironman
What jobs do ya'll think are slavery? Here's some of the jobs i think that are slavery even though the pay is good.
Construction
Driving delivery trucks
Janitorial/cleaning(this job doesn't pay good but it's slavery work)
Factory and warehouse work
Office work
I don't believe in working hard on the job because people that work hard sometimes don't get paid well and they don't get pay raises. I believe that nobody should work like a slave at their job. If you do a good job at your job, that's all that matters. I believe the people that work hard usually end up being stressed out and tired because they're trying to please their boss and kiss ass so they can keep their job. My dad has a office job and he helps poor blacks and hispanics get housing in the projects. My dad works hard and he told me he hasn't gotten a raise in a long time and he wants to quit because he doesn't get along with his boss and he thinks his boss is trying to get him fired. My dad comes home with a lot of papers from his job sometimes because he gets behind in his work and that's not good because it seems to me that his boss is trying to overflood him with work which will give him a reason to fire him.
Step your game up like who? Russell Simmons....the same dude who goes to board meetings with executives, world leaders, politicians, etc. etc. in jeans and a t-shirt.Quote:
Originally Posted by whitey
Black Man you tripping. Most thugs do wear baggy clothes, boots or sneakers. Have you seen a thug dress differently? I haven't. Your right that rock and roll artists do wear ripped up gay clothes but not all rock and roll artists dress like that. Mostly heavy metal artists dress like that. I've never seen Phil Collins, Billy Joel, Huey Lewis And The News wearing ripped up jeans and t shirts. Russell Simmons does wear a t shirt, jeans and sneakers to board meetings but he also dresses up sometimes. He wears gay clothes sometimes. I've seen him wearing pink shirts several times.
Respectfully, how are you educated?Quote:
Originally Posted by graveyard_shifter
Martin Luther King and all those black leaders didnt' think the same nor did they want the same things.....Huey P Newton, didn't always get dressed up...as a matter of fact the black panthers (who by the way were the first group of people to establish a "free" lunch program for their communities they also provided health care for the people among other things) were known to wear jeans, leather coat, and beret....no dress shoes, no tie!
I guess people still got the mind set of "keeping up with the jones'"
Accept your own and be yourself!
You do have a point about the black panthers. They never dressed up.
how so?Quote:
Originally Posted by TUCO
what does that mean? are you woke the fuck up?Quote:
Originally Posted by -aid4afrika-
what the hell is a ghetto person?Quote:
Originally Posted by B O T
as far as change, change is happening right now, maybe your the one who's not with the program so you don't see change or know what to look for in order to see the change. maybe you should actually talk to the people in that particular environment and see what they have to say verses.....
now imagine if no one carried out the task that these jobs require,
Are you in a building right now? How did that computer get from China to here?
Yes, I've seen many thugs dress other than baggy clothes, boots, or sneakers. The thugs that I know that I admired for various reasons very rarely (some never) wore baggy jeans, boots, or sneakers.Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJones
I've seen Phil Collins (I actually like his music), Billy Joel (never got into but I know who he is and his music), Huey Lewis (they had a song or two that I like never got into them though but I know their music) all wear jeans and t-shirts dude. Rappers don't wear ripped up clothes (except during that cross colors, damage era, you remember X-Clan), and it's not mainly heavy metal artist that dress that way.
I'm not going to say what's "gay" and what's not. Ok, russell dresses, so does beanie sigel. I've seen him suits quite a few times. I'm quite sure all of those rappers that are being mentioned, know how to properly dress for the occassion. I highly doubt when they go to church, a wedding, a funeral, etc. etc. they're wearing jeans, triple X gangsta T, and air force ones.
how do you know it's not easier?Quote:
Originally Posted by whitey
Exactly and they're some of the most honored among minorities (not just blacks) and they've done more than just hold guns.Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJones
A suit and tie doesn't equal respect! Especially among the people you're striving to help.
You want people to change, you have to be amongst the people. Talk like the people (Jim Brown, Khalid Muhammad, Huey, Malcolm/Malik), dress like the people, be where the people be at....otherwise you're not getting at the people who need the most help.
Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, NAACP, CORE, and the rest of the civil rights movement left overs, are not reaching the people who are need, for they are not in touch with their reality and their struggles....this is 2007, not 1957!
Most rappers are very young in age. Not many rappers out there in their 30's! How did you dress when you were 17? How'd you dress when you were 22?
Like the old saying goes, don't judge a book by it's cover! Can somebody call Dead Prez please? They don't get dressed up and they're far from ignorant! Speaking of which, the rapper Paris, and Chuck D still wear jeans and a t-shirt and they're kinda old....and they're far from ignorant.
fix up the schools with what? pixie dust.Quote:
Bigben i agree with what you said and the inner city schools should do better like fix up the schools, get new text books, computers, fix up the library and get new books.
have you been to most inner city schools? nope!Quote:
Most inner city schools don't even have libraries. I believe the problem is most black youth don't wanna learn and that's why the inner city schools are fucked up because the school administration feels like why should they fix up the schools and get things for the students when most of them don't wanna learn a damn thing.
your problem is you believe to much and don't know. if they don't treat you right they won't teach you right....in the words of dead prez fuck dey schoolz!
is that what the administration believes?
of all people who have a desire to learn, it's children. it's natural, but kids are not stupid they know what it takes to survive and school doesn't equal survival for all. in the words of bunz to sincere, your kids can't eat no books! those inner city kids that you say don't want to learn, they learn what they need to learn and they learn very quickly.
and you know this how?Quote:
School teachers at inner city schools need to help the black kids who have low test scores and don't do good with their homework because these kids aren't getting help from their parents.
in this post this is the first realistic thing you've said. i agree.Quote:
School teachers at inner city schools also need to get paid good salaries because i'm sure their salaries aren't that good. It's a damn shame that pro athletes, movie and tv actors, rappers, singers get paid more than school teachers. That's not right.
this however is not true!Quote:
School teachers prepare students for the future so they can get a good job when they graduate and because of that, they should be rewarded with a good salary.
like those rich white suburban schools who's teachers get beat up and shot the eff up!Quote:
I feel bad for school teachers at inner city schools because they also have to be concerned about their safety because you got stupid ass ignorant black kids beating up teachers.
What happens when you have innadequate resources?Quote:
Originally Posted by bigben
how do you know it's not a culturally biased test when you don't know the other culture?Quote:
Originally Posted by whitey
there's three birds on a wire, you throw a rock and knock one down. How many birds are left?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Man
and over crowded class rooms with teachers carrying an overwhelming work load.
he didn't say that group of people couldn't pass the test, pay attention to what's being said.Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJones
you don't have to agree with what he said, however those who are the founding fathers of "americas" schools system say they did design it with specific purposes and education was not one of them.
instead of listening to gangstarr and forming an opinion on something somebody else is talking about (and maybe researched for himself) you should do some research of your own.
it is true in sum skools if u never ha to deal with it u wouldn't kno, and it was really relevant wen the song came outQuote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJones
A lil something about they schools.....
The Educational System Was Designed to Keep Us Uneducated and Docile
It's no secret that the US educational system doesn't do a very good job. Like clockwork, studies show that America's schoolkids lag behind their peers in pretty much every industrialized nation. We hear shocking statistics about the percentage of high-school seniors who can't find the US on an unmarked map of the world or who don't know who Abraham Lincoln was.
Note: The above says America's school kids lag behind their peers....not black students, america's school kids!
Fingers are pointed at various aspects of the schooling system—overcrowded classrooms, lack of funding, teachers who can't pass competency exams (how can the kids learn when the teachers are not even qualified) in their fields, etc. But these are just secondary problems. Even if they were cleared up, schools would still suck. Why? Because they were designed to.
How can I make such a bold statement? How do I know why America's public school system was designed the way it was (age-segregated, six to eight 50-minute classes in a row announced by Pavlovian bells, emphasis on rote memorization, lorded over by unquestionable authority figures, etc.)?
Note: The above, that sounds like the dude who trained his dog to salivate at the sound of a bell.
Because the men who designed, funded, and implemented America's formal educational system in the late 1800s and early 1900s wrote about what they were doing.
Note: Doing some research, you will find what the cause is, instead of your i believe statements.
Almost all of these books, articles, and reports are out of print and hard to obtain. Luckily for us, John Taylor Gatto tracked them down. Gatto was voted the New York City Teacher of the Year three times and the New York State Teacher of the Year in 1991. But he became disillusioned with schools—the way they enforce conformity, the way they kill the natural creativity, inquisitiveness, and love of learning that every little child has at the beginning (as i've stated before, children naturally want to learn). So he began to dig into terra incognita, the roots of America's educational system.
In 1888, the Senate Committee on Education was getting jittery about the localized, non-standardized, non-mandatory form of education that was actually teaching children to read at advanced levels, to comprehend history, and, egads, to think for themselves. The committee's report stated, "We believe that education is one of the principal causes of discontent of late years manifesting itself among the laboring classes."
By the turn of the century, America's new educrats were pushing a new form of schooling with a new mission (and it wasn't to teach). The famous philosopher and educator John Dewey wrote in 1897:
"Every teacher should realize he is a social servant set apart for the maintenance of the proper social order and the securing of the right social growth."
In his 1905 dissertation for Columbia Teachers College, Elwood Cubberly—the future Dean of Education at Stanford—wrote that schools should be factories "in which raw products, children, are to be shaped and formed into finished products...manufactured like nails, and the specifications for manufacturing will come from government and industry." The next year, the Rockefeller Education Board—which funded the creation of numerous public schools—issued a statement which read in part:
"In our dreams...people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hands. The present educational conventions [intellectual and character education] fade from our minds, and unhampered by tradition we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive folk. We shall not try to make these people or any of their children into philosophers or men of learning or men of science. We have not to raise up from among them authors, educators, poets or men of letters. We shall not search for embryo great artists, painters, musicians, nor lawyers, doctors, preachers, politicians, statesmen, of whom we have ample supply. The task we set before ourselves is very simple...we will organize children...and teach them to do in a perfect way the things their fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way."
At the same time, William Torrey Harris, US Commissioner of Education from 1889 to 1906, wrote:
"Ninety-nine [students] out of a hundred are automata, careful to walk in prescribed paths, careful to follow the prescribed custom. This is not an accident but the result of substantial education, which, scientifically defined, is the subsumption of the individual."
In that same book, The Philosophy of Education, Harris also revealed:
"The great purpose of school can be realized better in dark, airless, ugly places.... It is to master the physical self, to transcend the beauty of nature. School should develop the power to withdraw from the external world."
Several years later, President Woodrow Wilson would echo these sentiments in a speech to businessmen:
"We want one class to have a liberal education. We want another class, a very much larger class of necessity, to forego the privilege of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks."
Writes Gatto: "Another major architect of standardized testing, H.H. Goddard, said in his book Human Efficiency (1920) that government schooling was about 'the perfect organization of the hive.'" While President of Harvard from 1933 to 1953, James Bryant Conant wrote that the change to a forced, rigid, potential-destroying educational system had been demanded by "certain industrialists and the innovative who were altering the nature of the industrial process."
In other words, the captains of industry and government explicitly wanted an educational system that would maintain social order by teaching us just enough to get by but not enough so that we could think for ourselves, question the sociopolitical order, or communicate articulately. We were to become good worker-drones, with a razor-thin slice of the population—mainly the children of the captains of industry and government—to rise to the level where they could continue running things.
This was the openly admitted blueprint for the public schooling system, a blueprint which remains unchanged to this day. Although the true reasons behind it aren't often publicly expressed, they're apparently still known within education circles. Clinical psychologist Bruce E. Levine wrote in 2001:
"I once consulted with a teacher of an extremely bright eight-year-old boy labeled with oppositional defiant disorder. I suggested that perhaps the boy didn't have a disease, but was just bored. His teacher, a pleasant woman, agreed with me. However, she added, "They told us at the state conference that our job is to get them ready for the work world…that the children have to get used to not being stimulated all the time or they will lose their jobs in the real world."
so what happens when all of what you said occurs?Quote:
Originally Posted by bigben
Why did you start another thread to discuss "the ignorant black youth"?
It seems you are going more with what you experienced in the schools you have went to and it seems to be misleading you.
I have been to a high school where the few black people had a high percentage of underachievers, but again there were countless rich white suburban kids (and I do mean rich) that would be brain dead all day too. The reason is their parents are so busy working all day to make all that money while their kids "have low test scores and don't do good with their homework because these kids aren't getting help from their parents".
You are right in a sense that some of those suburban black kids are pressured by the hip-hop culture (that they do not live) that they realize they are black in a white population so that makes them cool. But instead of being "cool" they act like the egotistic rapper which that rapper acts like a hustler, thug, whatever.
However, I go to a University where there is a large percentage of students who were the inner city black youth that you speak of. There is likely more of those black students than white students enrolled, and my university does compete very well in federal standards. I study amongst them all the time and they are serious. They told me about their neighborhoods and yes some help out at youth centers and all that stuff. We all experienced peer pressure as teens, but I can say that they went through a lot more than I did.
So is one of your premises that getting caught up in extensive peer pressure as a youth in the inner city mean that the youth is ignorant?
to many guns not enough books. you can have all the guns and the books and the world if your not using them they'll have no impact.Quote:
Originally Posted by whitey
neither guns nor books is a problem. guns don't just go off, and books don't just open.
war is only one way of maintaining power, not the only way, nor is it the major way, but it is a way.
do you know what caused the depression?
minimum wage is not slavery! you should really learn what slavery is. minimum wage is a good thing (how they work it, may be a lil shady however it's not a bad thing). at the very least, you know every job is "supposed" to pay this said amount. nothing wrong with that. making min. wage in california is different from making min. wage in nebraska.Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJones
i know you said, "in a sense" but how do you explain the same thing happening with the same group of people before there was such a thing called hiphop....i mean, it didn't start until the late 70's and how the schools are today, they were like that before hiphop (i guess hiphop is the new scapegoat like 30 is the new 20). and when i say the schools, i'm also including what the student body does...their actions.Quote:
You are right in a sense that some of those suburban black kids are pressured by the hip-hop culture (that they do not live) that they realize they are black in a white population so that makes them cool. But instead of being "cool" they act like the egotistic rapper which that rapper acts like a hustler, thug, whatever.
Alright Black Man i get your point. You're right. You can't judge a book by it's cover. Rappers shouldn't have a dress code because music artists don't have a dress code anyway. Your right that Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and the NAACP aren't reaching blacks in the ghetto and they aren't talking to them to ask them why do they act the way they do. If black politicians want blacks in the ghetto to change, you have to go to the ghetto and talk to these people instead of just dissing them at a public forum. At least Bill Cosby has made a effort to go to bad schools in the ghettos across america to speak to the black youth.
Black Man you're also right for questioning Tuco about the comment he made about hispanics that are illegal citizens in america do more than blacks that are legal citizens. I don't see hispanics doing more than blacks. Some of them are doing better than ignorant blacks and that's because they stay stick together and save their money. Most blacks don't stick together and we don't save money. One thing i notice about hispanics is that they don't wanna learn to speak english and they think it's ok for them to speak their language and get a job and not learn to speak english so they can communicate with americans on the job. I have some female hispanic co-workers at my job and one of them has complained to me several times that she wants a better job because she's tired of doing housekeeping work but she doesn't speak english well. Her supervisor is a female hispanic and she told me that the girl didn't finish high school and she doesn't read and talk spanish well. That's terrible. Well i guess she'll be a housekeeper the rest of her life because it seems to me that she isn't trying to educate herself and learn english so she can get a better job. She got a better car than i do and she has a house in a nice neighborhood so she's getting over on the system to me because it's not right that she can come to america and get those things when she doesn't speak english well. I don't like how the government treats foreigners better than blacks. Foreigners who come to america need to be forced to learn to speak english if they expect to become a american citizen and get a job.