That time of the year again.. (NBA PLAYOFF THREAD)

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Originally Posted by B O T

duncan isnt a scorer. he has his nights where he'll get off but if you're gonna put it in his hands and tell him to consistantly be a scorer and get his own shots he's gonna have a hard time.

he's more of a cleanup guy who puts the ball in off of rebounds and broken plays. he's got that bank shot though.

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totally wrong. Duncan is one of the best scorers in the paint ever.

He cannot create his own shot? man, "so many moves, so much power" is one quote that describes Tim Duncan the best, he can get his shot whenever he wants to...

He's averaging 21.8ppg during his career (highest was 25.5ppg in 01/02). To call him a clean-up player is ridiculous - it's part of the job to clean the board as a big guy, why shouldn't Duncan do that too?

btw he is the anchor of the spurs offense, without Duncan Parker wouldn't have that much drives - Duncan spreads the whole paint for the frenchman

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Originally Posted by Visions Unseen

I gotta say Duncan's a good scorer in the low post. Great footwork with more than one move hes uses to score, or course his range isn't great as he's not that effective outside of the paint (unless he's killin' you with that off-the-board bank shot)

Anyone who thinks he's not setting up his players should watch what happens when Duncan fouls out of a game. It's a ensuing slaughter just about every time.

It should be noted I'm not a SA fan, its just I can't deny the guy's talent even if he looks like Corky. haha

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finally somebody sees the footwork, guys don't realize that these guys are 7-0 or bigger plus another monster is leaning into their back...but you aren't right saying that his range isn't great. His bank shot is deadly, his jumper is on point for a big man. Duncan has range nearly to the 3-point line (I'm not the first person who said that), 100% to the elbows...

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Originally Posted by Visions Unseen

man, if that's your top-ten all time then you really should've said top-ten current players, it's all just oppinions but its highly debatable that Duncan cracks the TopTen imo.

btw Nash runs the point better than Kidd

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not all time top ten since jorden left

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Originally Posted by Scribbles

Duncan is DOODOO. He's a class act player but to me, he's really not that great.

I'd rather have Dirk or KG at the PF position. They are proven scorers.

Duncan relies to heavily on his teammates to help him get position to score. Have you ever seen the dude, set up plays for his teammates? Nope. If he has a bad look at the basket, he throws it up against the glass. (I'll admit though, it's a pretty nice shot when he does that).

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Tim Duncan has won four nba titles, won the mvp twice a three time finals mvp a nine time all star a ten time all nba first team a ten time first defensive team he also won rookie of the year the spurs have the highest winning percentage in finals history so to say he is doodoo is wrong and kg is good but he is no duncan and dirk is good during the regular season but disappears when it counts the most if the spurs had him and not duncan they would prob never have won a title if the mavs had duncan the would have won title maybe 4

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Originally Posted by Illegitimate Devil

He cannot create his own shot? man, "so many moves, so much power" is one quote that describes Tim Duncan the best, he can get his shot whenever he wants to...

He's averaging 21.8ppg during his career (highest was 25.5ppg in 01/02). To call him a clean-up player is ridiculous - it's part of the job to clean the board as a big guy, why shouldn't Duncan do that too?

btw he is the anchor of the spurs offense, without Duncan Parker wouldn't have that much drives - Duncan spreads the whole paint for the frenchman

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you're not gonna dump it down to duncan and have him win it for you. i agree that he helps the offense to flow with his ability to distribute but if you think you're gonna give it to him downlow and he's gonna score 30 points, no way. he's actually pretty average as a back to the basket post player but if he's midrange from the bank side he'll hit that shot all day.

he has poor handling skills down there and has a tendency to get stripped. lot of his points come from the line and putbacks. you saw in those last 2 finals games where he got bottled up. ilguoskas(sp?) shut him down and there double teams where very affective against him.

he's far from "DOODOO" but he's a bit overrated.

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Originally Posted by B O T

you're not gonna dump it down to duncan and have him win it for you. i agree that he helps the offense to flow with his ability to distribute but if you think you're gonna give it to him downlow and he's gonna score 30 points, no way. he's actually pretty average as a back to the basket post player but if he's midrange from the bank side he'll hit that shot all day.

he has poor handling skills down there and has a tendency to get stripped. lot of his points come from the line and putbacks. you saw in those last 2 finals games where he got bottled up. ilguoskas(sp?) shut him down and there double teams where very affective against him.

he's far from "DOODOO" but he's a bit overrated.

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are you sayin that Duncan's never had a 30 pt game?? haha lol and Duncan is no way an "average post player", he's widely considered the best PF of all time and if not THE best then he's atleast top 3. He doesn't back in though a la Shaq, he's at his best facin the basket where his footwork and repotoire of moves baffles most. I'd also say he's got good handles for a big man, ofcourse they're not great, but he plays the 4 not the 1. When you're 7 foot that's alot of distance the balls traveling on every dribble lol, ofcourse there's gonna be strips but bottom line is he's the anchor piece for a club that's got four rings and there's not a single player that hurts the Spurs more by not being on the floor because of foul trouble or injury. They can play without Parker or Ginobli but when Timmy's not on floor, trouble often ensues. There's just no denying that or what he means to the Spurs.

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Originally Posted by B O T

he has poor handling skills down there and has a tendency to get stripped.

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if you really think that, a quote from ex-rockets coach jeff van gundy about duncan during the finals game 4 may change your mind, after Duncan passed the ball out of the post to Tony Parker:"...it is one of the hardest things to do for a big man to dribble the ball 2-3 times and to pass without picking it up. There are only a handful of big guys that can do that."

what repotiore of moves? he has the bank shot and what? take manu and tony off that team and the spurs are no longer championship contenders. why do you think tony got the MVP? and either tony or manu should've gotten it in their 05 championship campaign but you know, politics as usual.

im not asking him to hav kobe handles but he's pretty clumsy with the ball when he's backing dudes down. he's a good facilitator and because he draws double teams he gets guys open shots. but as far as getting your own shot and getting to the basket, manu and tony are WAY better.

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Originally Posted by Illegitimate Devil

if you really think that, a quote from ex-rockets coach jeff van gundy about duncan during the finals game 4 may change your mind, after Duncan passed the ball out of the post to Tony Parker:"...it is one of the hardest things to do for a big man to dribble the ball 2-3 times and to pass without picking it up. There are only a handful of big guys that can do that."

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okay, he takes a few dribbles, sees and open shooter and hits them. whats so special about that? theres a lot big men who will back a dude down and still be looking for an open man.

balkey is caught up in the tim duncan hype too. but again, he's not a crappy player by any means. he's just overated.

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Originally Posted by B O T

what repotiore of moves? he has the bank shot and what? take manu and tony off that team and the spurs are no longer championship contenders. why do you think tony got the MVP? and either tony or manu should've gotten it in their 05 championship campaign but you know, politics as usual.

im not asking him to hav kobe handles but he's pretty clumsy with the ball when he's backing dudes down. he's a good facilitator and because he draws double teams he gets guys open shots. but as far as getting your own shot and getting to the basket, manu and tony are WAY better.

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he's got the up and under, the jab step, amongst others (I don't know the actual name for all the shit he does but its alot more than you're givin him credit for) The Spurs haven't always had Manu or Parker there for those four rings, TD is the one constant in the equation so No, what you're sayin there don't hold water. And Tony got the MVP because the Cav's coach didn't have enough sense to put someone with some actual D on him for the get go.(how fast is Larry Hughes with one good leg? Apparently about the same as a turtle uphill) It's alot easier to get to the basket when TD is constantly absorbing the double teams as well.

Have you ever seen a Spurs game where TD fouls out fairly early?

Do Ginobli or Parker strap the team to their back and carry them the rest of the way?................:nonono: Nope , they look like Custard with Crazy Horse on the hillside

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Originally Posted by B O T

what repotiore of moves? he has the bank shot and what? take manu and tony off that team and the spurs are no longer championship contenders. why do you think tony got the MVP? and either tony or manu should've gotten it in their 05 championship campaign but you know, politics as usual.

im not asking him to hav kobe handles but he's pretty clumsy with the ball when he's backing dudes down. he's a good facilitator and because he draws double teams he gets guys open shots. but as far as getting your own shot and getting to the basket, manu and tony are WAY better.

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repertoire of Duncan's Moves & Shots:
The Postplay: starting with the hook shot which is the best after Yao's in the league

baby hook: Duncan's footwork is probably one of the best ever seen in the NBA, he's spinning too quick -no matter left or right - for most big men, the ones who are fast enough (Dwight Howard, Al Jefferson) are faced with the baby hook (fading away, also hits with the right foot)

lay-ups: Duncan uses lay-ups protected by the rim, 7 out of 10 times you'll see him use glass making the lay-up, even if the dunk is possible

dunks: use the dunk as what it is: a high-percentage shot which sends a message to both teams, put a body on the defensive player. draw the foul - GO STRONG, never saw Duncan NOT making one of these things

bank shot: combined with his jab step, Duncan creates space - most of the time the defense reacts, the bank shot is pure

jumpshot: Duncan can hit from the baseline, elbows, range til the 3-point-line


I know it looks weird to list dunks and lay-ups as his moves, but: Duncan always used them the best way possible, remember - always protect the basketball as an offensive player, coaches don't love him for nothing


why did Tony get the MVP?

well this doesn't start with the skills of Tony or Duncan, it starts with which team the Spurs played. the cavs defenders where helpless vs. Parkers penetration and speed, their transition defense was terrible, Parker scored 10 or 12 points in game 4 because of the lack discipline of the cavs going back on D.

second point: playing a zone vs. the spurs (which could have been a way to slow Parker down driving to the basket) is simply dangerous: coach pop plays with AT LEAST 3 threats from downtown (examples: Finley, Ginobili, Horry, Bowen)

third point: the 3-pointers + Duncan, both spread the floor for Tony, he gets alot of space to penetrate or create his own shot. he showed his improved J.


but as far as getting your own shot and getting to the basket, manu and tony are WAY better...

well this is funny. you compare a guy who's 7-0 with a 6-6 and a 6-2 point guard...of course the smaller guys have an advantage of dribbling the ball. you also can't compare the way these guys create their own shots - once again the height makes that impossible.

Whoever is using championships as a reason as to why Duncan is the best PF ever, needs to check themselves.

First of all Rings don't measure an individual's success (that's a team effort).

Second, Duncan is good but far from the best ever. Come on stop playin yourself, I don't need to elaborate furthermore.

Third, everyone always talks about how Duncan spreads the floor for his teammate. Well what about the other way. His teammates, Ginobli, Parker, Bowen - they are constantly running in and out of weaves, setting picks, etc. If anything they are avoiding the double team on Duncan almost - always.

Let me just clarify, Duncan is good but he is not GOAT. I mean he was NOTHING in the 90s when there was a lot of GOOD PFs. There just isn't that many decent PFs in the league right now....that's why people are glorifying him.

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Originally Posted by Scribbles

Whoever is using championships as a reason as to why Duncan is the best PF ever, needs to check themselves.

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well, why do people use championships for saying Bill Russell is one of the best C ever? same thing

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Originally Posted by Scribbles

First of all Rings don't measure an individual's success (that's a team effort).

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true. but MVP and Finals MVP trophys do...
Finals MVP: 1999, 2003, 2005
League MVP: 2002, 2003

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Originally Posted by Scribbles

Third, everyone always talks about how Duncan spreads the floor for his teammate. Well what about the other way. His teammates, Ginobli, Parker, Bowen - they are constantly running in and out of weaves, setting picks, etc. If anything they are avoiding the double team on Duncan almost - always.

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everybody is doing his job, that's true. but why do players like Rasheed Wallace (off-ball player: Richard Hamilton) or Jermaine O'Neal (ex-off-ball player: Reggie Miller) NOT spread the floor like Duncan??

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Originally Posted by Scribbles

Duncan is good but he is not GOAT. I mean he was NOTHING in the 90s when there was a lot of GOOD PFs. There just isn't that many decent PFs in the league right now....that's why people are glorifying him.

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His stats in the 90's when he was "nothing":
97-98...21.1ppg...11.9rpg...2.5bpg
98-99...21.7ppg...11.4rpg...2.5bpg
99-00...23.2ppg...12.4rpg...2.2bpg

I never said Duncan is the GOAT. Jordan is, but anyway...Duncan is the most consistent and one of the most efficient players ever. Put him in the Top 3 of the PF (I think he's the best PF, but nevermind).

^that's what I'm saying, has to be ATLEAST top 3 at PF. Curious to hear who'd anyone would put ahead of him. Barkley, Malone,....who else?

I think Malone is right behind him, yeah

yeah homey is right. stop dickriding tim duncan. he aint a goat. hes good but not a goat. its all about teamwork.