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I didn’t see the sequel, I just based it off the audience and critics overwhelmingly negative reactions. It doesn’t seem that much of an improvement over the first one. RZA definitely should not have acted in either movies. The problem is the movies are too gaudy and sleek for a supposed old school kung fu homage. Again, it should’ve been like Tarantino’s Pei Mei scenes from Kill Bill 2. But that takes certain skillsQuote:
Originally Posted by Sam the Seed
Bro, don't take critics' word tho. WATCH am ovie before you say its bad. If they hated the 1st movie, they're gonna hate the 2nd. Especially if there's an agenda to keep RZA out of directing. He got that little directing gig just because he begged Tarantino for years. The 2nd movie is like a real old school Golden Harvest/Shaw Bros kung fu film. The 1st was some corny Kill Bill/Enter the Dragon jokey shit because they forced Eli Roth on RZA.
I'm not saying its amazing and yeah they got some B-list director to replace RZA as director. Thats because the first film flopped and they don't let you direct again if you flop. RZA probably had to agree with the studio to let a more experienced guy direct, but RZA still wrote it. And he produced it unlike the 1st movie. Its not even a comedy like the 1st one was.
The first one sucked. Second one sucked even more. No doubt about it. Next to that, RZA only co-wrote it. He did not direct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenchild
There is a lot of history to the first one. RZA had been trying for years to get a Kung Fu film of the ground. You can see this all way back with The Night The Earth Cried by Gravediggaz. After that, in the early 2000's, some footage leaked online of test scenes for an unnamed Kung Fu project with RZA's sifu, Shi Yan Ming. As far as I know, that never materialized.
What are the sources for these claims this was a joint QT x RZA project? QT rarely does collaborations. He might do a scene or story, but a movie together? Seems Roth was always involved according to wikipedia.
Quentin Tarantino was more of a co sign. Rza basically used his name to gain acceptance. Basically a stamp from him. Like Quentin Tarantino saying, "This is my understudy, go support him."
RZA only co-wrote the 1st one, so who cares if he only co-wrote the 2nd? What matters is RZA PRODUCED the 2nd which means more of his vision remained. And they replaced RZA as director because he's not capable of directing a big overseas project while being on-screen more than in the first movie. None of that shit has anything to do with the quality of the film either. Y'all say the 1st one is shit, then why is the sequel worse because RZA didn't direct it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet Set
My sources are RZA saying in interviews and press that Tarantino was helping produce his first film. Tarantino didn't end up producing TMWTIF but Eli Roth did, who is Tarantino's lackey. Not to mention the fact "Django" is the same basic plot as "Iron Fists" and doesn't seem anything like what Tarantino would make himself. He did the same shit with "From Dusk Til Dawn". Tarantiono was going to make "Demon Knight" the Tales/Crypt movie then left the project and made "Dawn" out of spite with Robert Rodriguez.
I don't know when Roth got involved but Wiki is not a good source. Never have I heard Roth is a kung fu head. Its obvious he was brought in because the studio didn't trust RZA as a first time director and writer, so Roth added all the goofy, racist grindhouse shit which a bunch of Hollywood Jews would love.
"QT rarely does collaborations"
What are you talking about? Pulp Fiction was Roger Avery's original script. Jackie Brown was based on a novel. Tarantino made his career being a script doctor rewriting other people's work. Thats exactly what he was going to do on Iron Fists. And there's the fact other directors have directed his scripts before (Natural Born Killers, True Romance). And 2 films with Rodriguez.
RZA's first kung fu project was a Bobby Digital film, which the album was originally a soundtrack for. He released tons of pics and video clips of it but never finished it. You can find some on old Ground Zero kung fu dvds that Wu Tang produced. But then Tarantino got RZA to do the music for KIll Bill in exchange for helping produce TMWTIF. Tarantino left the project over creative differences with the studio and made Django instead. Roth replaced him because he's Dollar Store Tarantino.
And the way Django turned out as a Blaxploitation Western, its probable that RZA's project was still a Bobby Digital movie when Tarantino was still attached.
The sequel is worse because it is worse regardless. Maybe it is even worse because RZA produced it. In any case, both films suck. 2nd one more than the first one. It may have something to do with the budget, director, producer or whatever. But don't put words in my mouth. I did not say it is worse because RZA did not direct it. I'm just saying I think the 2nd one was more crap, and noticed RZA did not direct it, the budget was down, and the film just did not work.Quote:
RZA only co-wrote the 1st one, so who cares if he only co-wrote the 2nd? What matters is RZA PRODUCED the 2nd which means more of his vision remained. And they replaced RZA as director because he's not capable of directing a big overseas project while being on-screen more than in the first movie. None of that shit has anything to do with the quality of the film either. Y'all say the 1st one is shit, then why is the sequel worse because RZA didn't direct it?
And I stand by my Tarantino comments. Can not see him doing this project together with RZA. The Tarantino Presents is nothing more than a RZA Presents being slapped on a film. He did it for Iron Monkey and Hero too.
btw, bobby digital in stereo was finished. It was even showed at some festival some years ago. He just never released it for whatever reason. Might be that it was on par with No Limit movies.
Wiki is a pretty good source though because you can check the sources they use. Like this one, this one, and this one. If there is not source, it is sketchy and needs to be checked. Like your claims. As far as I can see, even though Tarantino produced it, his involvement seems to be minimal.
A well. The movie still sucks and Remedy is suspect for releasing Never Again during a genocide being perpetrated by Zionists.
You said Tarantino doesn't do collaborations. Thats total bullshit. And he "presented" those finished films because Miramax/the Weinsteins released those films and he was their top director. He didn't bring them here. TMWTIF, on the other hand was NOT from Miramax and Tarantino was attached to its production BEFORE it was made.
Wiki is not a good source if your claim is Eli Roth was always attached to the film. Because there is no fucking source. You're deducing that the same as my "claims", so miss me with your "sources".
Funny how you ignored the similarities between Django and TMWTIF and Tarantino making his own version of Demon Knight after leaving a film in the same fashion. Its ridiculous acting like this is impossible unless there's a source proving it, Wikipedia being the most absurd example.
How does Bobby Digital being shelved prevent RZA from bringing the same concepts into his first RELEASED movie?
"The sequel is worse because it is worse" Your opinion is irrelevant if you can't even give an informed explanation . You're mad touchy & getting personal because of previous times we argued that you're still salty about. You injected yourself into a convo I had with someone else, looking to argue. "The movie's bad because I say its bad". Alright, man. You don't like the movie. I do. Move on.
Do your little response because I'm not going to reply to it. You're trying to distract from the Israel criticism.
My original point is TMWTIF2 has an anti-Jewish, pro-Christian message and its probably because of the negative experience RZA had with the 1st film where Zionist Eli Roth took over the script. If you hated the original, check out the sequel. Dudes getting heated in the comments about me recommending a fucking movie to strangers are heated because of what I said is in the movie, not because it might be a bad movie.
I didn’t expect this to turn into an Iron Fist/movie discussion. In any case, I think filmmaking (and acting) may not be for RZA. I expected too much and was blinded by his music. Never mind Tarantino, RZA doesn’t even have Robert Rodriguez level of craftsmanship when it comes to making movies. That’s too bad, but at least he tried. I gotta rewatch Iron Fist and see if it holds up as campy fun at the very least. I don’t know why I thought RZA could make a Kill Bill type martial arts movie
Yeah, I'm mad people got sidetracked because I only brought it up because of the sequel's commentary on Zionism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenchild
But this is the last post I'll make on the movie on this thread. First movie is mixed. I don't care what anyone says. I worked in Hollywood film-making. RZA had handlers. Its not unlikely that they used the DP or 2nd unit/action director to direct half the film, which is actually standard practice for 1st time directors that the studio don't believe in. The scenes which are obviously directed by the RZA (ones where he's actually in them or the tone is more serious) are actually good. The scenes that are campy Grindhouse shit are terrible.
Some of the action is good. Some is awful Power Rangers shit that I know RZA didn't want because I know his taste in kung fu and which kung fu he finds shitty.
IMO, RZA understands filmmaking. TMWTIF was not his vision at all and he was conforming to what the studios wanted. The man knows too much about kung fu to make that bullshit with Batista and racist jokes about Asian people. Same way his Prince Rakeem music was him selling out, thats what the 1st film is.
The 2nd film is better for all the reasons I've already explained. Real martial arts. Real respect for Chinese history and kung fu. No stupid humor. No shitty celebrity cameos. Way more RZA. I do wish he directed it, but if you flop hard in Hollywood, you don't get another shot. So him not directing Part 2 doesn't mean its worse or its less of a RZA film. The PRODUCER matters more than the director or writer. And he clearly learned that. Thats why he's more interested in producing like the Wu TV series.
Form your own opinion. I'm not saying my word is God. I think Kill Bill is absolute Orientalist, "white washing"garbage and Tarantino is a hack. His take on Bruce Lee is proof of that.
lmao, you are clearly having a different discussion than I didQuote:
Originally Posted by Sam the Seed
tarantino definitely cosigns and collaborates. first movie that comes to mind is that suyaki django western he gave a stamp of approval