U-God vs RZA: U-God is in the right, RZA is in the wrong

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sam the Seed

All the Wu members are hustlers who will say whatever to protect them from looking like shitbags. I just want evidence U-God is lying when it comes to RZA. Because I find RZA blowing smoke way too much and getting endless passes for it. Its such a bootlicker non-argument "He did so much for these guys" and doesn't dispute anything the Wu says about him. RZA tells the most tall tales out of anyone in the group, but I know RZA will always have the most hardcore Stans. So I feel like I gotta give credence to U-God as the group's biggest underdog. It also makes more sense. We KNOW the album got blocked by members. .

---

I will say it is disheartening to hear about a lot of the legal shit RZA (and his brother) put the clan through, I think itÂ’s one of the bigger dark spots in the groups history that you kind of canÂ’t ignore the more you dig into the group. I do think there are two sides to every story and I do try to give RZA benefit of the doubt where I can, trying to think of ways he couldÂ’ve been acting that got mistaken as malicious; but like youÂ’ve said several members call out his behavior, itÂ’s not like it came from nowhere. Has there ever been some type of direct RZA apology for stuff? A lot of the time I think he just disputes the money claims people make, I canÂ’t really think of anything else. It also makes me wonder why they all come back together because it seems like every couple of years they have an issue with RZA and money.

It sucks because I do see him as a creative genius and one of If not my favorite artist, so I do have to like look back at these stories and be like whyÂ’d you do that shit. He preaches a lot of shit about being noble as the abbot I feel like, so it seems almost out of character to scam your group.

The one thing I have to say about outis is from what IÂ’ve seen is it really did seem like the group members (even ones who now claim they were always against it) seemed to have some support for it at some point. Now that thereÂ’s so much controversy around it, it seems like no one wants to have their name attached (even rza taking down anything he had up that mention it.) I really donÂ’t think Cilvaringz went behind everyoneÂ’s back like a lot of narratives push

Now that I’m just ranting, I feel like the clan try to say they keep their beef internal but they totally throw out these lowkey nasty accusations that paint people in a really bad light and then don’t elaborate. A couple years pass “we’ll always be family, that was just the media

Also, going off topic, I read a story the other day from someone who read raekwons book, basically saying after RZA went through with the American saga show (and basically shutting down Rae’s idea for a movie biopic with funding from Leonardo DiCaprio) that they may always be family but that their friendship was over or something and wonder if that beef is still going on or if they’ve managed to get past it. Maybe someone can elaborate for me.

Reminds me of an interview I saw I think earlier this year of Rae, where the interviewer opened by giving the American saga show like crazy praise saying it was incredible, and all Rae had to say was “you actually like that shit?” With a laugh. I feel like anyone would’ve known better than to praise that show to Rae lol

I'm dying to read Rae's book. Just finished RZA and U-God's. I can say this: I think RZA told so many lies and myths over the years because he's ALWAYS planned to tell the Wu Tang story in a cinematic form. He told that stupid lie for years that Ghost and Rae were arch enemies who tried to kill each other and when it finally amounted to a scene in his TV show, it made sense. He really cares more about their CHARACTERS and the Wu-Tang/Shaolin myth more than the facts because he's always been the lone member who cared more about the global/white market and less about the gritty street shit. Because he really was the least gangsta of all of them, tho he likes to exaggerate his street life a lot. Thats why I take other members' stories more. Their credibility with 100 Wu vets is more important to them than being beloved music artists.

RZA, from my research, never really owns up to anything unless pressed by other artists and then he almost always admits they were right but still won't say he was wrong. He admits things he did wrong in his personal life only if there's a happy ending later that makes him look like a genius for failing. Its typical super producer personality. In his book, he always uses a very condescending and pretentious manner when talking about "his students" aka all the artists who worked under him as a producer. You can tell he really resents the other members choosing to branch out with other producers and be their own artists.

A perfect example is in the book, RZA talks about ODB self-destructing and how he kept guys around him who let him get high, blaming them. But then he explains how ODB forced his own son to watch him get high in front of RZA and RZA did nothing. A few hours later, ODB died. Then RZA says "We all let Dirty die" to pass the accountability. He's a hypocrite a lot.

RZA is narcissistic. He only speaks of himself like an angelic innocent child or all-knowing sage and its obviously making up for childhood inferiority. But I think you have to be to psych yourself up to get out of the hood. Whereas the other members did crimes to get the money to ultimately get the Wu Tang off the ground, RZA convinced himself he's this Buddhist black prophet chess master super genius who's never wrong. The issue is he's the one who attained a level of wealth that he keeps 24/7 Yes Men around who don't check him anymore. When the Wu got tired of he and Divine's shitty business decisions, which essentially destroyed their career in '97, the first thing he did was cut them off and move to LA to get into Hollywood and mentor the Black Knights as a new group of ghetto thugs doing whatever he said. Plus, in his book, RZA says the Wu breaking up in 97 was his choice and doesn't at all touch on the Hot 97 Summer Jam incident.

RZA does have a good heart, but he's also got a mega ego and bends the truth constantly. Why tf would grown ass middle aged men who've known him since childhood put up with that bullshit? He isolated himself from them. 9 other niggas can't all be wrong for not wanting to deal with this guy. IMO, the reason he does all this stuff is because, in his mind, the he's the Wu's leader forever and if he looks bad, they all will look bad. But I don't think he can handle the fact that 95% of people who've heard Wu Tang don't even know RZA is the so-called founder. I don't think the Wu members even feel that way. He just started the label that ultimately owned the name.

​I can see both sides to a degree. The only thing I would dispute is that ‘97 stuff. That was the literal pinnacle of their career (Wu Forever) and it was a few years after that members demanded out of the clan contracts. I don’t remember RZA breaking the group up at all (I could be wrong?)

Then RZA and Divine released their contracts for free when they were worth tens of millions of dollars. I haven’t seen any member deny that. We all saw how solo careers tanked directly after wanting to be on their own.

After that happened I honestly think RZA took a more spiteful approach to clan dealings rather than his ego taking over. He even mentioned how hurt he was when that happened - if the members want nothing to do with Wu-Tang Clan as a business entity, why wouldn’t RZA do whatever he wants with the brand at that point

Quote:

---

He really cares more about their CHARACTERS and the Wu-Tang/Shaolin myth more than the facts because he's always been the lone member who cared more about the global/white market and less about the gritty street shit.

---

that’s literally why wutang exists and why we all love their music though lol. He made up a whole mythology out of thin air (as artists should do) and is solely responsible for their sound.

the global/ white market thing is weird to me though. I highly doubt he thought white people would be drawn to rapping about Islam and the black man being god and never being on global radio. They might be the group that pandered the absolute least to global fame and white people

1 Its well documented already that '97 was the year they started breaking down. RZA forced them to do a "white boy tour" with Rage Against The Machine that no one wanted to do and this caused a scheduling conflict with Summer Jam. They then left the tour (burning 1 bridge) and appeared at Summer Jam but Hot 97 wouldn't let them perform, causing them to act up and Ghost to scream "fuck Hot 97" which got them banned from NYC radio for over a decade. THEN, after the tour fell apart and was cancelled, they had a big blow up where the Clan confronted RZA and Divine for everything.

2 RZA and Divine did not let them out of their contracts for free. Deck was the first to sue them. BUt Ghost said, "Nah, we had to fight for that" after RZA told that fucking lie in the Mics & Men doc. No offense to you, but see how RZA's version is always the official version? If you watch the doc or ODB's reality show, you'll see their beef was over Dirty being the last member on Wu Tang records and RZA and Divine refusing to let him out of the contract. After pressuring and going public to make them look bad, RZA finally let him out of it. This means RZA & Duvine were eating off ODB's earnings while he was in jail for years.

3 Its not an opinion that Wu blew up to a global white boy market. RZA takes pride in it because its whats made him super rich and the group world famous. They're more popular in europe than the States. Everyone kinda accepts that. If you've been on this site for decades, you know the white fandom is huge. Most don't even krecognize the 5 Percenter shit plus there are cornballs who love it. I just read a book by a white boy called "Why I Am A 5 Percenter" and its him hanging out with RZA and explaining how there's no racism to it. Wu Tang and RZA's contrived, inconsistent description of 5 Percenterism is why he's a so-called member.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bluntedmecha

Also, going off topic, I read a story the other day from someone who read raekwons book, basically saying after RZA went through with the American saga show (and basically shutting down Rae’s idea for a movie biopic with funding from Leonardo DiCaprio) that they may always be family but that their friendship was over or something and wonder if that beef is still going on or if they’ve managed to get past it. Maybe someone can elaborate for me.

Reminds me of an interview I saw I think earlier this year of Rae, where the interviewer opened by giving the American saga show like crazy praise saying it was incredible, and all Rae had to say was “you actually like that shit?” With a laugh. I feel like anyone would’ve known better than to praise that show to Rae lol

---

It should be somewhere on here. Rae desperately wanted to do a movie, and had DiCaprio with his production company lined up. The discussion here was, would a movie had done justice, compared to 3 seasons of episodes. There is only so much shit you can show in a film, and most definetely not the stories of 9 different persons condensed to 90/120 minutes.

All of them had something to say, and often just said, that is RZA's work. In the end RZA set them up with a whole 5 years plan again: documentary, tv-series, world tour. I'm not convinced a film would have had that same push or impact.

Straight Outta Compton had a way bigger cultural impact than RZA's show, which took 3 seasons to cover just a small but important span of time from them being non-famous to finally having hit albums.

Nothing wrong with long-form storytelling and it does offer more details. But all of it came from RZA's POV and makes him the central character pushing others to the side.

If Rae made a movie, it would've been way more gritty and realistic, probably in the style of Scarface or The Godfather. Those films covered way more time and huge casts of characters. If the movie focused on a group's transition from drug hustling to hustling albums out of cars - yeah, thats a much tighter and watchable story.

Never mind the fact RZA admitted the show invented tons of stuff and members were angry their entire contributions were left out. U-God isn't even in the 1st season! So all that extra time for "details" was just filler because RZA wanted "TV producer" on his resume.

Do you want 30 episodes of dishonest revisionism from 1 guy or 2 to 3 hours of a story about EVERYONE? The RZA dick-riding is laughable.

But Leo seems like a cool white dude. He apparently became friends with RZA around the time he made Titanic, tried to buy the OUATIS album and had that hilarious encounter where U-God and someone else threatened to mush him because he didn't know these are real killers like an annoying nerd. I'd love to see him produce a Wu movie because he knows them and doesn't have to listen to one member (RZA) over another. We need more Wu media made from outside RZA's camp.