Michael Vick Allegations...

in most states but not all? so are those states that dont have these laws immoral?

you cant show me a verse in the bible that says that dogfighting is immoral so then what is your basis for saying that its immoral or sin? an now your saying im poorly raised or without morals because i dont agree with your subjective view of this issue? SMH :no:

my point about the law thing is that, believe it or not, legality and morality are not synonmous. saying that i dont care about the law may have been a poor choice of words. it has its good purposes but i dont see the law as a template for morality.

you have been saying throughout this thread that people who think that dogfighting is okay are immoral people. that is an objective judgement and therefore you must show why this is the absolutely truth and so far you have been unable to do so.

EDIT: seriously though man, if you can show me something in scripture that says that having animals fight to the death is a sin then i will change my position.

the bible is bunk to me. men wrote it for their personal gain. there is a lot of stuff in peoples religious books that are just totally out of wack with reality. thats a totally different story and i dont think it should really be brought up here.

so in the united states when slavery was going on it was ok because blacks were viewed as property of the slave masters and seen as less than human? because something is owned it is ok to do with it what you want? is that your arguement?

I suppose my standpoint is objective, but I have reasons for feeling so strongly and defensive about it.. Honestly the Bible can be interpreted in so many ways and I am in no position to determine the absolute truth of its teachings.. I do however, believe that people that are capable of doin harm to any innocent creature, simply for the sake of entertainment, are not right in doing so.. This is just what I believe in , and I would hope that any logical person with good intentions would agree..

I apologize if I came across arrogant in my posts, just understand this is something that really bothers me and it is natural for someone to defend his/her belief... When I try to understand how/why someone would participate in dogfighting, the only conclusions I come up with are those of self-satisfying motives.. that in itself goes against the teachings of the Bible and the human conscience..

I guess I would like to know, do you personally, think it is morally acceptable for people to treat animals in this way, and why?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Complex

I suppose my standpoint is objective, but I have reasons for feeling so strongly and defensive about it.. Honestly the Bible can be interpreted in so many ways and I am in no position to determine the absolute truth of its teachings.. I do however, believe that people that are capable of doin harm to any innocent creature, simply for the sake of entertainment, are not right in doing so.. This is just what I believe in , and I would hope that any logical person with good intentions would agree..

I apologize if I came across arrogant in my posts, just understand this is something that really bothers me and it is natural for someone to defend his/her belief... When I try to understand how/why someone would participate in dogfighting, the only conclusions I come up with are those of self-satisfying motives.. that in itself goes against the teachings of the Bible and the human conscience..

I guess I would like to know, do you personally, think it is morally acceptable for people to treat animals in this way, and why?

---

I do agree. Shit aint right! But you keep bringin up the law. FUCK THE LAW AND LAWS OF OUR FUCKED UP JUSTICE SYSTEM AND CROOKED, RACIST, GUNG HO FAGS WITH BADGES THAT CANT WAIT 2 BLAST ON A FOOL CUZ THEY DONT WANT 2 BE TROWN IN A JAIL OR PRISON WHERE THEY MIGHT FIGHT 4 THE ENJOYMENT OF THE STAFF AT ONE OF THOSE LOVELY FACILITIES! DO YOU RESPECT ALL OF THERE LAWS?

damn

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ERICHWV

I do agree. Shit aint right! But you keep bringin up the law. FUCK THE LAW AND LAWS OF OUR FUCKED UP JUSTICE SYSTEM AND CROOKED, RACIST, GUNG HO FAGS WITH BADGES THAT CANT WAIT 2 BLAST ON A FOOL CUZ THEY DONT WANT 2 BE TROWN IN A JAIL OR PRISON WHERE THEY MIGHT FIGHT 4 THE ENJOYMENT OF THE STAFF AT ONE OF THOSE LOVELY FACILITIES! DO YOU RESPECT ALL OF THERE LAWS?

damn

---

lol.. hell no i dont respect all of the laws.. I said this earlier.. I do respect the laws that actualy protect innocent people and animals, and these laws are necassary to keep fucking devils from doing sick shit..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Complex

lol.. hell no i dont respect all of the laws.. I said this earlier.. I do respect the laws that actualy protect innocent people and animals, and these laws are necassary to keep fucking devils from doing sick shit..

---

I say if you pose no danger 2 innocent people, no one has the right 2 incarcerate you! Ok, you say ONLY innocent people and animals. Hmmm........
Ok, but who is innocent? I say someone who is threatining me with incarceration when I dont pose a threat 2 innocent people, is fair game! 4 real son! I aint goin 2 the slamma unless I deserve it! And if I dont, I wont go alive!

Over 40 states have improsinment penalty of 1-5 years and fines up to 5,000 dollars.. Some states are even harsher with torture/aggravated abuse cases.
People can get it 10 times worse in a drug-related offense.. What do u think is a worse of a crime? This is my point.. People that murder animals get it easy comared to someone slangin work to pay bills..

The whole message of my thread is how fucked up it is for someone with the status of Vick to fight dogs just for entertainment.. He aint doin it for the money, Im sure money is involved but cmon now.. There are other ways to get money/enjoy ya self without hurtin animals.. You gotta have issues to enjoy that shit, point blank.. I have no simpathy for millionaires who torture animals..

most serial killers start off by toturing animals...just thought i'd throw that in there.

not saying vick is a serial killer, hes obviously not, but thats what kind of mind also enjoys animals torture.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whitey

so in the united states when slavery was going on it was ok because blacks were viewed as property of the slave masters and seen as less than human? because something is owned it is ok to do with it what you want? is that your arguement?

---

i knew this was eventually gonna come up and i think its a bad angle to take. to make a point like this is pretty much saying that you view blacks as animals. if not then you would understand that what happened to african slaves was wrong simply because they are HUMAN BEINGS, not animals(unless you actually do think otherwise)! my argument is that animals are no more than property and you can do as you please with them.

the bible is brought up because you both bring up the subject of morality. neither you or i are in a position to objectively declare what is moral or immoral. you cant say that what vick did is immoral just because you dont like it, that doesnt work. you can say that it is against the law which it is, at least in the state where he did it. what if he did it in a state, or in another part of the world where it was legal? what do you have to say about the states or countries that do legalize this?

if you're gonna approach this from an atheistic point of view then what is right and wrong is gonna differ for each individual. there is no set standard for morality. the only rule is that with every action there is a reaction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Complex

I suppose my standpoint is objective, but I have reasons for feeling so strongly and defensive about it.. Honestly the Bible can be interpreted in so many ways and I am in no position to determine the absolute truth of its teachings.. I do however, believe that people that are capable of doin harm to any innocent creature, simply for the sake of entertainment, are not right in doing so.. This is just what I believe in , and I would hope that any logical person with good intentions would agree..

I apologize if I came across arrogant in my posts, just understand this is something that really bothers me and it is natural for someone to defend his/her belief... When I try to understand how/why someone would participate in dogfighting, the only conclusions I come up with are those of self-satisfying motives.. that in itself goes against the teachings of the Bible and the human conscience..

I guess I would like to know, do you personally, think it is morally acceptable for people to treat animals in this way, and why?

---

im not trying to convince anyone that they should enjoy dogfighting. i stated earlier in this thread that i would never go to a dogfight because i wouldnt want to sit and watch any living thing get mauled to a bloody pulp. hell i dont even like watching horror flicks. blood and gore just isnt my thing.

at the same time i have no basis to say that those people who have the stomach to watch such an event are immoral. immoral according to what moral authority?

its all personal opinion thats gonna differ from person to person. clinton portis said that there his dogs and he should be able to do what he wants with his dogs. and i think its goes without saying that those people who participate in this feel the same. they all see dogs as property and nothing more.

if you think its sick, thatS fine. if you say its illegal, well, it is illegal. but i dont see the basis for calling it immoral.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by B O T

i knew this was eventually gonna come up and i think its a bad angle to take. to make a point like this is pretty much saying that you view blacks as animals. if not then you would understand that what happened to african slaves was wrong simply because they are HUMAN BEINGS, not animals(unless you actually do think otherwise)! my argument is that animals are no more than property and you can do as you please with them.

---

i most certaintly dont see them as animals. but at the time they were seen as such, at the time. so im saying the way you look at it, at that time it was ok for whites to do what they wanted because that was the general perception at the time? i know it was wrong as fuck then, and it is equally as such now. it does not change. but society saw it as right then. does that make it right? of course not.

animals are in a sense property because if they were not "owned" by humans they would be wild. but i still dont see where the fun (?, for lack of a better word) is in dog fighting. what compells these people to do this? and as i said before about the serial killers, people who start of killing animals. i just think it puts a demention in the mind thats not supposed to be there. a blood lust if you will, dog fighting, and gladiator fighting of roman times, is there a difference? the gladiators, most of whom were slaves of the roman emporers were made to fight to the death for no good reason other than the benifit of the people watching. that essentially what dog fighting is. it has no real value to people other than satisfaction to the people who are watching it. thats what i feel is wrong.


if two dogs fight to the death in the wild over a kill so one can survive that is life, but if two dogs are made to fight to the death so some people can bet and have a good time, its just a f'ed up situation to me.

as i i've said numerous times here. if you think its uncool, thats fine. just understand that other people disagree and that there is no real basis to say objectively that they lack morals.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by B O T

as i i've said numerous times here. if you think its uncool, thats fine. just understand that other people disagree and that there is no real basis to say objectively that they lack morals.

---

Uncool? Figureskating is uncool, CNN is uncool, Dr Phil is uncool... Dogfighting is fucking wrong...period

Seriously try to justify the shit to me.. You already said u dont wanna see a living thing get shreded to a bloody pulp.. Why do u think that is??? MAYBE YOUR CONSCIENCE.. OR MORALS???

How about people who are terrorists who kill hundreds of innocent people and their justification is that they will have a better afterlife... So just because they believe it is ok or dont know any better, then it is right??? Do you think that is a moral issue??

Even ya most hardcore thug ass muthafucka that is in the most dangerous projects cant justify dogfighting to me.. If you really got to go that low to survive and have fun, try selling drugs or pimping hos, animal torture is crossing the line and there is NO REASON SOMEONE SHOULD DO IT.. For someone who is looked up to by thousands of young kids in America to do it is a fucking disgrace.. Im not saying Vick is guilty, but there are obviously other "high class" people involved in it.. You would think someone so blessed would be a little more humble, but I forgot this is the mindset of our country..

word.

It's a little more than uncool. LOL @ Complex bustin Dr. Phil's balls. It's definately wrong! No doubt. However, is throwin a human being in a cell any less wrong? I say no! I don't think Vick should serve time. I hope he runs into the biggest baddest animal luver in the world, and gets beat tha fuck down! Then, well see how he likes it.