We would all burn if that were the case...
What about those that burn....and burn... and burn....and were innocent...?
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We would all burn if that were the case...
What about those that burn....and burn... and burn....and were innocent...?
it would be the case if there was no atonement for our sins, but there is in the death of Jesus on the cross.Quote:
Originally Posted by V4D3R
im gonna guess that you also know john 3:16.
those who will be separated from God eternally(or as you call it, burn and burn and burn) are those who rejected Jesus and thus rejected the father.
as i said before, hell is those who wanted nothing to do with God finally getting their wish.
Idol worship going against the Law in the Torah.
The whole thing is driving you insane. Blind faith.
The contradictions...
I reject the bible...and I know I don't need Jesus to be in communion with the Creator.
You on the other hand will burn people constantly at the stake to see it the way it's written in that book. Those innocents that still burn today...people who believe on something other then Christianity or Islam. Those innocent women who were called witches, prostitutes, some murdered by their own brothers fathers and mothers all in the name of whats written in these books...in the name of sharia...in the name of this...in the name of that...
Next your going to tell me they didnt have the proper way to interpret the writings. Some don't see the meaning of the story of Tower of Babylon. The division of the people by the "gods" plural. The separating of the seeds and languages...
U-N-I ted we're strong - Divided we fall - together we can stand tall (best lyric in hip-hop's history)
what does the Bible say against pride and arrogance ?Quote:
Originally Posted by THE W
the Pharisees believed that they were following the laws in the torah laid down by God and rejected Jesus, correct ?
Jesus brought a new way in a new day - today, in our times, this also happened. we have people following an ancient misinterpreted writing that has many people looking down on each other and even killing each other over what they believe God wants from them.
will the proud and arrogant today have a rude awakening ?
Sunny where is he?
I think I found one
one with so much knowledge and jewels at a young age its unreal.
one so strong he wont hide his tears yet has no fear
one thats willing to burn this whole fucker down or flood it if he could but wont
his scepter is powerful
jesus went against the pharisees way because it became corrupted
this one went against Yashua's way because it became corrupted
anyhow its not only one of them - the potential is in all of us to see the light and to atone with god on a personal level. we are all god. you hurt me and its going to hurt you eventually whether you like it or not...
If I'm going to be a messenger relaying an enlightened message for example your all going to want to burn me at the stake because your all programmed to be aware of "false" prophets and your fear of hell will feed that. So many martyrs have died at the hands of this lunacy throughout the centuries its the biggest single mass murder in history...
Christinity was written with a very intrinsic defensive mechanism of word play...words are like 101101 100111 for a cpu for our minds. Put the right combination together and enough people preaching it and it has a snowball effect...no matter how many flaws are discovered the brain is still programmed and the defensive mechanisms kick in.
Whats it going to take to realize you been hoodwinked...bamboozled.
I'm in no way saying my way is right because the reality is nobody knows. We all have our own reality and experience here. That's the big picture.
matthew 9:16Quote:
Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS
“No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment, for the patch will pull away from the garment, making the tear worse. 17 Neither do people pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst; the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved.”
what do you take this to mean?
how about this, you show me a verse in the bible that says christians should burn people at the steak for not believing in Jesus.Quote:
Originally Posted by V4D3R
what contradictions?
in short you believe that you are God?Quote:
Originally Posted by V4D3R
how have i been bamboozled and hoodwinked?
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE W
I wont go any further then. If you aren't aware that names and the vibrational quality of sound and words mean anything then you probably aren't going see where I am going.
Yahweh in the beginning spoke all things into creation. The underlying foundation of the universe is the Word, Yah's Word (scientificly varifiable by the fact that all in essence is vibration). The first thing spoken into existence was light. The Hebrew word for light is "owr". The Kamitic word for this first created light is "Ra". Both words contain in them the vibrational quality of what eastern mystic traditions say is the first word ever spoken into existence, "Aum". When one abides in the Word, that is the light of the Most High it is said that one is surrounded and is permeated by an "Aura". (This will all help with a proper mystical understanding of John 1 by the way)
Names are not just names. Words are not just words. Apart from the fact that if you are going to deify a man you would think you would at least want to get his name correct, the importance of names and words and sounds is a whole nother topic in itself. I'd encourage you to look it into it further.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE W
It doesn't at all speak of a blood sacrifice, don't pretend like it does.
Again, if you study mystical traditions you will find statements, like those made by Yashu'a in John 14, all over the world. It is not enough for one to study the Tao (The Way!) one must live, become and embody the Tao. Indeed no one comes to the Father but by the Way, the Truth and the Life and Yashu'a embodied the Way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE W
The renewed covenant (spoken of in Jeremiah 31, which again beautifully explains the mystic experience of communion with the Most High) was brought to the lost sheep of Israel through Yashu'a's blood. Do you have any idea what was done to those who exposed the esoteric teachings of the mystic traditions to the "common rabble" back then? You were tortured and killed. But Yashu'a followed the Will of Yah even unto death. This is truely living in communion with the Creator. And through his example, by following his example (those who believe and follow his teachings) the Lost Sheep of Israel and eventually even the Gentiles are given the right to eat of the Tree of Life (which is from the beginning of the Bible in Genesis to the very end in Revelations the true way into life. An understanding of what the Tree of Life is, is only going to come from, you guessed it, studying the mystic traditions).
the books of exodus and Leviticus speak about sacrificing of various animals for atonement of sins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE W
No they weren't. It was never about the physical act of sacrificing an animal.
El's Holy Tehillim (Psalms) 51:15-17
15O Yahweh, open thou thy lips, and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness. 16For thou desirest not sacrifice; thou delightest not in burnt offerings. 17The sacrifices of El are a broken spirit, a broken and contrite heart, O El, thou wilt not despise.
The Most High gave it to the Israelites in degrees like any good teacher. They still didn't understand and neither do you.
And if you want to get into the mystic tradition of the Holy Tabernacle(which came out of Kamit) and what it meant that the sacrifice only took part within the Holy of Holies we can. (King David understood it as shown by the previous scripture)
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE W
God grew tired? Give me a break.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE W
Wow. You post this verse and still don't get it? That verse said in plain words that El never cared for the actual physical act of sacrifice, that it was always about doing righteousness, sacrificing your own flesh (physical body) and blood (life) for the Word of the Most High.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE W
Yet I, and you yourself with those words from Isaiah, proved that Yah doesn't even want sacrifices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE W
No you don't, but it still makes no mention of a physical blood sacrifice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE W
Damn straight it did. But not in some spooky babylonian blood for blood ritualistic killing. In hard work, nuts and bolts, living righteous unto death and beyond. "Be perfect even as your Father in Heaven is perfect" said Yashu'a. In this way the mystic traditions aren't really all that mystic. They've just been made to seem that way to keep the children of the Most High away from them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE W
If El is righteous and El gives to man an understanding of what righteousness is and it involves not killing ie. Thou shalt not kill. Then how is El justified in demanding the blood sacrifice of his son for atonement? (At One Ment, being of one mind ie. to follow the will of the One)
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE W
The same oneness that Yashu'a prayed we all might be?
John 17:21 So that they all may be one, just as thou, my Father art with me, and I am with thee, that they also may be one with us; so that the world may believe that thou didst send me.
I guess if we are all able to be one with the Father then that Trinity of yours is going to get awful crowded!
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE W
Already explained.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE W
Yashu'a also said YOU are the Light of the world.
Matthews 5:14. And in John 17 whilst praying for the oneness of Yah with his children also prayed saying that he has passed on his glory to his followers. Therefor you have yet to make Yashu'a unique as worthy of deification and serving (for you will love the one and hate the other!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE W
First of all that is doctored scripture when supposedly talking of the trinity. The original said "baptizing them in my name."
Regarding the other point. Worship as translated from the Hebrew/Aramaic in the scripture is not unique to worship of the One God. It is a reverence and honoring of someone, which may or may not be Yahweh. The disciples did not fall to there feet worshipping and saying "Praise to you the One God!" or anything along those lines. Yashu'a was comfortable with the reverence he was receiving, if that is indeed accurate scripture. The birth story and post death scripture is very suspect.
The Malachim/Angel in revelations however was not comfortable with it and told John to revere God alone. You cannot justify the the words or actions of one being with the words or actions of another.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE W
This has all been covered. Seriously look into the mystic traditions and stop worshipping idols.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE W
Please. The sword is being sharpened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE W
Nope. That didn't do it. The worship business has been explained. Forgiveness of sins being preached in his name is the idea that people thought that they were being punished for their sins. This is what people thought and still think. That karma has something to do with punishment. Yashu'a taught that as soon as you repent as long as you forgive the wrongdoings of others unto you, you are forgiven. In this light Karma is seen as a teacher not as punisher.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE W
Explained. Quit with the blood thirsty babylonian ritual crap. At One Ment through murder. This is what you teach.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE W
That's a bunk interpretation of the scripture. A quick google search will show you that. There is no christian concept of trinity mentioned by Yashu'a or another true follower of Yah in biblical scripture. The christian trinity is a completley misunderstood bastardization of the orginal trinity of mystic traditions. One to satisfy their left brain, idol worship way of thinking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE W
That bit of scripture doesn't even mention Yashu'a until the 17th verse. The first part is not talking of Yashu'a but the Light of the Word of El that became flesh through Yashu'a. Now see if you can connect this to the first thing I wrote about names and words.
Like I said, the trinity is completley misunderstood. The Word is called "He" because it is the masculine principle of the Yin/Yang that manifests out of the Godhead.
Godhead
/ \
Word ------- Spirit
Masuline Feminine
Yang Yin
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE W
You throw the word persons (persona ie. through sound) around without even having an understanding of the power of words. None of what your lengthy reply said justified your idol worship of a flesh being you call Jesus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE W
If the Light of the Word of Yah was with Yah at the beginning and indeed is Yah. And that Light is in us and is indeed is us (YOU are the light of the world, remember.) Then we were all glorified in the presence of Yah at the beginning.
Mystical traditions. The truth is not a bloodied clump of flesh on a cross to appease a blood thirsty god. It is Light of the Word of Yah that one must sacrifice ones life for.
Your scripture says "Ye are Elohim." Both Yahweh and Yashu'a said it. Why do you deny your birthright and give it up for hunger?Quote:
Originally Posted by THE W
@face of the golden falcon
so i see two things happening here.
you are limiting the almighty creator from having total authority over his own creation based what we believe we understand. you are also hell bent on establishing your own equality to God even though the scriptures do not give you such an office.
the fallen angel did similar. he was thrown out of heaven. you dont like the idea of blood sacrifices so you will twist and distort the scriptures as much as you possibly can so they fit what YOU want. God the creator cannot do as he pleases with his creation if it doesnt appease you.
the man centered theology.
yes, you need not go any further with this because to say that a rose would change its physical state if it were called something else other than a rose makes no sense at all. but this just speaks to you limiting the ability and sovereignty of God the creator based on your own finite understanding as a created thing.
you have chosen to conveniently ignore the fact that Jesus was not some guy who was super pios and without fault. Jesus was not a created being. Jesus was with God at the beginning of time. he willingly laid down the glory his father gave him from before creation to take on sinful flesh and bare the sins of mankind. he was murdered on the cross in God the father showing ultimate justice and was raised from the dead to sit at the right hand of God in God showing ultimate love and mercy.Quote:
Again, if you study mystical traditions you will find statements, like those made by Yashu'a in John 14, all over the world. It is not enough for one to study the Tao (The Way!) one must live, become and embody the Tao. Indeed no one comes to the Father but by the Way, the Truth and the Life and Yashu'a embodied the Way.
you will never have the ability to atone for anyone's sins including your own and you will never be in a place where you can be worshiped as such things were never appointed to you or anyone else in God's word. to think otherwise is heresy
all jeremiah 31 talks about is God's desire to restore his people israel back to himself. reading this it seems like you're disagreeing with anything i said. though i dont need to know about the mystic tradition to understand what the of life is about. they can just read the bible to understand it.Quote:
The renewed covenant (spoken of in Jeremiah 31, which again beautifully explains the mystic experience of communion with the Most High) was brought to the lost sheep of Israel through Yashu'a's blood. Do you have any idea what was done to those who exposed the esoteric teachings of the mystic traditions to the "common rabble" back then? You were tortured and killed. But Yashu'a followed the Will of Yah even unto death. This is truely living in communion with the Creator. And through his example, by following his example (those who believe and follow his teachings) the Lost Sheep of Israel and eventually even the Gentiles are given the right to eat of the Tree of Life (which is from the beginning of the Bible in Genesis to the very end in Revelations the true way into life. An understanding of what the Tree of Life is, is only going to come from, you guessed it, studying the mystic traditions)
revelation 22:1-3
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. 3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.
the sacrificing of animals for the atonement of sins was established by God himself. it was HE who made those laws, not man. not moses, GOD. yes, you are correct in saying that God gre tired of these sacrifies and offerings because people were giving God everything but their hearts which is what i made clear with the verse in isaiah.Quote:
No they weren't. It was never about the physical act of sacrificing an animal.
El's Holy Tehillim (Psalms) 51:15-17
15O Yahweh, open thou thy lips, and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness. 16For thou desirest not sacrifice; thou delightest not in burnt offerings. 17The sacrifices of El are a broken spirit, a broken and contrite heart, O El, thou wilt not despise.
The Most High gave it to the Israelites in degrees like any good teacher. They still didn't understand and neither do you.
And if you want to get into the mystic tradition of the Holy Tabernacle(which came out of Kamit) and what it meant that the sacrifice only took part within the Holy of Holies we can. (King David understood it as shown by the previous scripture)
im way ahead of ya which is why i posted this in the first place to show why God ended such rituals through the final sacrifice of Jesus. while God did not like the fact that people were following his law while their hearts were still unpure he still demanded the atonement of sins through his law. Jesus was the final sacrifice for all sacrifices, bringing on the new covenant in his blood. now we have access to the most holy place through Jesus as he is our mediator and intercessor.Quote:
Wow. You post this verse and still don't get it? That verse said in plain words that El never cared for the actual physical act of sacrifice, that it was always about doing righteousness, sacrificing your own flesh (physical body) and blood (life) for the Word of the Most High.
already explained above.Quote:
Yet I, and you yourself with those words from Isaiah, proved that Yah doesn't even want sacrifices.
didnt quote it for that purpose, i quoted it to show that those who place their faith in what Jesus did for us will have access to eternal life.Quote:
No you don't, but it still makes no mention of a physical blood sacrifice.
i explained this earlier but i'll do it again here. there are no nuts and bolts here. because of what adam and eve did there are no nuts and bolts or amount of hard work that can be done by man to make him pure enough to be worthy of accomplishing what Jesus did. john the baptist being the greatest ever born of a women according to Jesus would not have been a worthy sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins even though he was a pious man.Quote:
Damn straight it did. But not in some spooky babylonian blood for blood ritualistic killing. In hard work, nuts and bolts, living righteous unto death and beyond. "Be perfect even as your Father in Heaven is perfect" said Yashu'a. In this way the mystic traditions aren't really all that mystic. They've just been made to seem that way to keep the children of the Most High away from them.
the fact that Jesus was fully God is what made it possible for him to become the sacrifice for man's sin, not his piety. but he was also fully man in that he was the adam that adam should have been. adam was without sin and utterly pure before disobeying God in taking from the tree of knowledge. from then on adam and all of mankind were under the curse of sin.
Jesus did not come into existance through sinful man. he existed before the creation of man. he did however take on sinful flesh to become the final blood sacrifice for the atonement sin. which is what the new covenent in his blood described in the last supper passage.
yet again i explained this earlier but i'll go over it again. God is sovereign over his creation and has the right to deliver justice in the way he sees fit. all the killings that God did throughout the old testament(flooding the world and drowning everyone being one of them) were God standing apposed to those who stood apposed to him.Quote:
If El is righteous and El gives to man an understanding of what righteousness is and it involves not killing ie. Thou shalt not kill. Then how is El justified in demanding the blood sacrifice of his son for atonement? (At One Ment, being of one mind ie. to follow the will of the One)
you and i are created things. we have no power or authority over anything that we havent been given power or authority over by God the creator. who are we to tell God what he can and cant do with what he created?
God gave us life and ability to make life by procreation. you and i created NOTHING apart from God. God has the right to take away what he has made. we do not have that right as we have no authority over creation therefore we have no right to take away something that isnt ours.
isaiah 45: 9-12
“Woe to those who quarrel with their Maker,
those who are nothing but potsherds
among the potsherds on the ground.
Does the clay say to the potter,
‘What are you making?’
Does your work say,
‘The potter has no hands’?
10 Woe to the one who says to a father,
‘What have you begotten?’
or to a mother,
‘What have you brought to birth?’ 11 “This is what the Lord says—
the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker:
Concerning things to come,
do you question me about my children,
or give me orders about the work of my hands?
12 It is I who made the earth
and created mankind on it.
My own hands stretched out the heavens;
I marshaled their starry hosts.
romans 9:14-21
What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[f]
16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[h] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
not so,Quote:
The same oneness that Yashu'a prayed we all might be?
John 17:21 So that they all may be one, just as thou, my Father art with me, and I am with thee, that they also may be one with us; so that the world may believe that thou didst send me.
I guess if we are all able to be one with the Father then that Trinity of yours is going to get awful crowded!
this scripture is in no way giving us an office to be worshiped, to sit at the right hand of God, the ability to atone for sins IN OUR OWN NAME, or to be equal in authority and power with the father, the son, and the holy spirit.
we are not told in scripture to worship or pray to any of the disciples or paul. we pray to God the father, to Jesus(who is also God), even to the holy spirit(who is God as well). 3 persons, jesus and the holy spirit having the authority and power equal to that of the Godhead.
the prayer of Jesus in john 17 is about us coming into right and full relationship with Jesus and thus with God the father as was intended for man from the time of adam, it IS NOT about being equal to God or becoming God.
remember matthew 28:18 where jesus said that all authority on heaven and earth had been given to him? where in jesus' prayer did he give all or any authority on heaven and earth to the disciples or the to believers?
again, not soQuote:
Yashu'a also said YOU are the Light of the world.
Matthews 5:14. And in John 17 whilst praying for the oneness of Yah with his children also prayed saying that he has passed on his glory to his followers. Therefor you have yet to make Yashu'a unique as worthy of deification and serving (for you will love the one and hate the other!)
matthew 5:11-12
“Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
those who preach the gospel of Jesus are indeed the light because they supply the light of the gospel by following jesus teachings and living by them. so yes they become light in that sense.
why does jesus say blessed are those who are persecuted....BECAUSE OF ME? are they being persecuted for being pious people? no. they're being persecuted for proclaiming the gospel of jesus.
the prophets were persecuted for proclaiming God the father as the one and true God while others worshiped false gods.
oh word?Quote:
First of all that is doctored scripture when supposedly talking of the trinity. The original said "baptizing them in my name."
Regarding the other point. Worship as translated from the Hebrew/Aramaic in the scripture is not unique to worship of the One God. It is a reverence and honoring of someone, which may or may not be Yahweh. The disciples did not fall to there feet worshipping and saying "Praise to you the One God!" or anything along those lines. Yashu'a was comfortable with the reverence he was receiving, if that is indeed accurate scripture. The birth story and post death scripture is very suspect.
The Malachim/Angel in revelations however was not comfortable with it and told John to revere God alone. You cannot justify the the words or actions of one being with the words or actions of another.
what original? produce it
what documentation can you produce to say that the post death scriptures text is inaccurate or shouldnt be there?
the angel wasnt comfortable with it? comfortable with what? john honoring and reverencing the angel?
why would an angel be up in arms about something like this to emphatically reject it and implore john to worship God only but Jesus excepted the very same thing with no problem.
i think its because jesus had been given the authority to received such worship(as God does) and the angel did not.
without jesus' sacrifice there is no atonement for the sins of man and God judgement remains upon mankind.Quote:
Forgiveness of sins being preached in his name is the idea that people thought that they were being punished for their sins. This is what people thought and still think. That karma has something to do with punishment. Yashu'a taught that as soon as you repent as long as you forgive the wrongdoings of others unto you, you are forgiven. In this light Karma is seen as a teacher not as punisher.
the scriptures dont say that forgiveness is the way. it says jesus is the way. people who forgive others will still face God's rath if they reject the one he sent which in turn means you have rejected God.
well this was God's will so you'll have to take it up with him.Quote:
Explained. Quit with the blood thirsty babylonian ritual crap. At One Ment through murder. This is what you teach.
jesus makes multiple references to how he has been with the father since the beginning so how exactly is it bunk? you basically think there is no concept of trinity because the word 'trinity' isnt in the bible?Quote:
That's a bunk interpretation of the scripture. A quick google search will show you that. There is no christian concept of trinity mentioned by Yashu'a or another true follower of Yah in biblical scripture. The christian trinity is a completley misunderstood bastardization of the orginal trinity of mystic traditions. One to satisfy their left brain, idol worship way of thinking.
trinity = the authority and power of the Godhead residing in himself, his son, and the holy spirit.
so you're saying the word "he" in the scripture is references God's masculinity?Quote:
That bit of scripture doesn't even mention Yashu'a until the 17th verse. The first part is not talking of Yashu'a but the Light of the Word of El that became flesh through Yashu'a. Now see if you can connect this to the first thing I wrote about names and words.
Like I said, the trinity is completley misunderstood. The Word is called "He" because it is the masculine principle of the Yin/Yang that manifests out of the Godhead.
Godhead
/ \
Word ------- Spirit
Masuline Feminine
Yang Yin
i dont see how that works
the light that john is talking about is jesus as explained in the last part of that passage. anyone who reads that passage honestly will see this plainly. its all describing jesus.
its why jesus is referred to as the lamp in revelations.
"he" in this passage cant mean anything else but jesus. "the light" in this passage cant mean anything else but jesus. the last part where jesus' name actually appears only confirms this.
john 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
i fail to see how this passage can be talking about anyone or anything else but Jesus.
already explainedQuote:
You throw the word persons (persona ie. through sound) around without even having an understanding of the power of words. None of what your lengthy reply said justified your idol worship of a flesh being you call Jesus.
i quoted that passage to validate the trinity and the fact that jesus has been with God even before creation.Quote:
If the Light of the Word of Yah was with Yah at the beginning and indeed is Yah. And that Light is in us and is indeed is us (YOU are the light of the world, remember.) Then we were all glorified in the presence of Yah at the beginning.
Mystical traditions. The truth is not a bloodied clump of flesh on a cross to appease a blood thirsty god. It is Light of the Word of Yah that one must sacrifice ones life for.
no one has been given all power and authority in heaven and on earth besides jesus and the holy spirit(spirit of truth).
nowhere in scripture have i been given power and authority equal to that of the Godhead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Face of the Golden Falcon
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE W
you can't bring an old mind into the new kingdom
it's like installing window 98 on a tablet made in 2013
wtf are you doing ?
can the people who never left the muds see the eagles in the sky ?
there seems to be a debate going on between 2 brothers in this thread
i've learned allot from both
if i was looking for the flaws in both of them, i wouldn't be able to learn from none of them.
i'd be busy pointing out the flaws in delivery
i've gain great epiphanies by reading from what was written
however, the more fire yall throw at each other, the less anyone can gain from what's being written -
what is the difference between being humble and being arrogant
what does the scripture say about humbleness ?
can you learn anything when you believe that everyone needs what you are teaching ?
Soul started the fire - Heru you have a lot to teach willing pupil here.
These niggas wont teach me shit because they think Im an agent when in reality I just have the gift of intuition even though I lost my light and I freak them out when they come at me like agents with different names hiding their indentities...hahahahah. aint that right Gavin and Anthony?
Especially considering I am the furthest thing from an agent. You have a dis-ease called paranoid delusional that actually spread to my conscious at one point. Now you pissed me off when I was troubled and really needed guidance. If anything...my mind was corrupted in these forums by certain individuals that I would categorize as blatant and disruptive to my quest for knowledge and light...very misleading and bi-polar wishy washy bs that has poisoned my mind...
Quote:
Originally Posted by V4D3R
what is it that you want these niggaz to teach you ?
i did not participate in this thread for the purpose of conversion. im not trying to sway anyone to my beliefs. this discussion isnt even about beliefs to begin with.
my reason for coming in this thread was because soul controller posted a video of someone taking the bible way out of its proper context and having it say things it is not saying.
if you reject the bible that is your choice and im not here to change anyone's mind on that.
my reason for participating in this thread is to ensure proper exegesis of the Word of God. to make sure that God's word is understood in its proper intended context so we know accurately who God says he is and what God's will and purpose is for his creation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE W
this is the problem right here - too many people feel they do have the understanding that gives them the right to teach others it's "proper intended context" - then they'll directly or indirectly call each other stupid/sinners for not going 100% with what they are giving.
this is what Allen Watts was saying in those vids also - we are limited to our perception and experience - and even more so, when we don't hear out and understand others perception and respect their experience -
i understand what yall are saying - but what yall write becomes incoherent when yall begin to get frustrated with each other. it's not wise to try and force understanding
i edited some things in my last response to falcon that i thought werent appropriate.
there is nothing wrong with debating. in fact it is very fruitful if it is kept civil. it helps people to understand each other and themselves by allowing their ideas to be measured and weighed.
but it doesn't seem to be being weighed and measured
i'm weighing and measuring what's being said as an outsider
what you are giving is the popular traditional way of seeing what's written W (IMO)
and i understand it -
to me, it's a surface and safe way to approach it -
im simply taking the bible for what it says.
many people have turned the bible into whatever suits them.
thats why you have catholics, mormons, and jehovahs witnesses claiming they're christians when they're all heretical teachings. there is nothing in the scripture that says we should ever pray to the virgin mary. there's nothing i scripture that says that God had an actual sexual experience with the person who gave birth to jesus.
even homosexuals are getting on the act.
if you want to be any of those things go ahead, but don't try to associate these things with christianity.
this is all I read and found a few flaws according too my way of thoughtQuote:
Originally Posted by THE W
.
keep in mind that we're discussing what the bible says and it definitely does not say that you or I are the creator. we didnt create the heavens and the earth. we didnt create man from the dirt and create women from the rib of a man which means we are created things that have no power or authority over anything apart from God the creator. the bible doesnt tell us that we had any part in such things.Quote:
Originally Posted by GHETTO GOD
now if you reject the bible than thats your choice and convincing you otherwise is not the point of the discussions that have gone on in this thread.
.
I apologize if anything I posted seemed disrespectful to W. Wasn't my intention. And on the contrary I only debate with people who I respect and think have spent time studying their craft.
And if like Sunny said our posts have become hard to follow and ones aren't getting anything from it because of our passion for the subject then I'm happy to step away and perhaps myself and W can continue the debate through PM.
I certainly don't want to be part of (any further) derailing a thread if that's how it is seen.
Peace.
it didn't get to that point yet -
passion is one thing, frustration is another
i'm not trying to control the thread at that level, i'm just pointing out some observations while attempting to keep it peaceful.
debates can turn into heated arguments
i've gained allot by reading what yall wrote and didn't want this to get out of hand - please continue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE W
so when the bible talks about making the woman out of a mans rib, you take as just that ?
where does it say that man is made out of dirt ?
are not homosexuals off the hook since jesus died for all of our sins ?
what do you make of this scripture ?
New International Version (©1984)
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
To the Church in Thyatira
18“To the angel of the church in Thyatira write:
These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze. 19I know your deeds, your love and faith, your service and perseverance, and that you are now doing more than you did at first.
20Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds. 24Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan’s so-called deep secrets (I will not impose any other burden on you): 25Only hold on to what you have until I come.
26To him who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations—
27‘He will rule them with an iron scepter;
he will dash them to pieces like pottery’b—
just as I have received authority from my Father.
28 I will also give him the morning star.
29He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
what is this morning star exactly ?
12How you have fallen from heaven,
O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!
13You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain.c
14I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.”
15But you are brought down to the grave,
to the depths of the pit.
Hormones are powerful...and so is a mind convinced by a indoctrinated belief.
genesis 2:5-7Quote:
Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS
Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams[b] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
so maybe not "dirt" but dust.
genesis 2:18-25
The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.” 19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.
But for Adam[f] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs[g] and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib[h] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
23 The man said,
“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man. ”
24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.
25 Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.
the details as to how God made eve out of the rib arent disclosed.
Jesus did die for atonement of our sins but this does not give us license to continue in sin.
hebrews 6:1-8
Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,[a] and of faith in God, 2 instruction about cleansing rites,[b] the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And God permitting, we will do so.
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.
we are called to holiness and are being made holy. how can we be holy if we continue in sin?
regarding the verse you quoted:
matthew 10:34-37
“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law —
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[c]
37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.
sounds cruel doesnt it?
what Jesus is saying to the twelve disciples and to all who would follow him is they will be persecuted and forsaken even by people who are closest to them because of christ. Jesus is asking if they're willing to make this sacrifice to follow christ or do they value those relationships more than christ. the text i bolded highlights this point.
if one is willing to put down everything for the sake of christ they will be given everything back and more. those who value the things of this life over christ will eventually lose all they have.
1 john 2:15-17
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father[d] is not in them. 16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.
good stuff
no debate
no argument
the bible cant b true cuz there r many contradictions like the differences in the census figures of Ezra and Nehemiah.
its used in different context in both verses.Quote:
Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS
in the verse in revelation its used to identify the light of the dawn or the rising sun.
in the verse in isaiah its used metaphorically.
reading the same verse from the KJV:
isaiah 14:12-15
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
NIV = morning star, son of the dawm
KJV = lucifer, son of the morning
so we could say that lucifer = morning star
but again, the term "lucifer" or "morning star" are being used metaphorically.
keep in mind that this is no longer what the fallen angel is called. his moniker is now "satan" or "the opposer" in his disgrace.
the moniker was bestowed upon Jesus in being described as the morning star.
this does not mean that Jesus and satan are the same person.
those censuses were taken at different times periodQuote:
Originally Posted by rakimkoolgrapwutang
they were both referring to the same eventQuote:
Originally Posted by THE W
I'm not even gonna get into this.I seen the videos. I understood and have heard this before. There is a power struggle in this thread though and some bias so I don't really want to take part in the convo.my bad.
lol - you already didQuote:
Originally Posted by INF
the fusion is comin soon..thru undastandin
typed what you quoted and thought i deleted it but i guess not.Quote:
Originally Posted by rakimkoolgrapwutang
anyway,
there's a mistake in the census numbers of these two chapters either in transmission or by the original people who wrote the books but do you realize what you're saying?
so since there are different census numbers in erza 2 and jeremiah 7 that means the events described didnt happen? you do understand you would have to throw out a whole lot of stuff in many ancient greek writings and even in modern day newpapers if you use this logic?
if someone goes to a wu-tang concert and says wu-tang performed 8 songs and another person who went to the concert says wu-tang performed 10 songs, obviously one of them is misinformed but does that automatically mean the concert didnt happen?