None of your business
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None of your business
should be a good read while taking a shit son.
Fuck a book about album you have never heard!
Another one nonsense, smh.
Happy to send you a copy Bro... send me your addressQuote:
Originally Posted by rgu2002
LOL. No, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
I still got a respect for myself to not read a book about that nonsense!
https://www.instagram.com/p/BXHK_VZB...thecratekeeperQuote:
Originally Posted by rgu2002
Not interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
Got my copy! Thanks Cilva!!!
Got my copy today. Thanks again, Cilva!
Hope yall enjoy it !
Thanks again for the book Cilva, interesting read but gotta admit a bit conflicted at the same time... think there might have been a few avenues which could have been looked/book doesn't cover for other reasons.
WARNING : this is a LONG ASS READ with MANY SPOILERS
I advise you to read the book as it is extremely interesting even though the author's style can be a bit offputting in the beginning
I bought the book myself, so this is not an endorsed review
So here's my take on the book and my views of the whole OUATIS saga
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* Apart from the first bit this book has a decent pace, with philosophical overtones on the intrinsic value of music and its relationship to both the other arts and to economics. While I think all the fitting moral dilemmas of a one copy album and sale are discussed in an intelligent way, some of it gets lost in flowery and self important wording. In other words, there's no excuse for being pompous about it. When the author discusses the appreciation and validation of music in contemporary society that's all good and well. But please don't make it sound like a philosophical treatise on the world's most serious subject.
As soon as Shkreli enters the book, in the final third, the story suddenly moves along at neckbreak pace. There is less time for musings and more talk of (over)plotting (unsurprisingly, that would be Ringz' doing) and damage control (Shkreli is unhinged by all means and doesn't play into Ringz' plotting, not for lack of wanting, but since Shkreli seems to have no grip of reality. Him actually overselling his whole 'Most Evil Man in America' act to help Ringz go through with his end game fucks everything up.) You'll be glad to hear though that RZA remains positive and chill throughout the whole ordeal.
* The first few short chapters suffer from some weird style changes that turn up much less frequently in the vast majority of the other chapters. Particularly in scene descriptions and comparisons / metaphors quite ofsetting purple prose is used, with a startling use of 'fucks' thrown in at seemingly random places. You can't go for this kind of artsy wording and throw in some vulgar language once in a while and make it come off naturally unless you are a really good writer. Cyrus Bozorgmehr isn't.
Clearly the first few chapters are overwrought (probably too many rewrites), it really discouraged me from reading on. But then later on Bozorgmehr's style picks up quite a bit.
* The author discusses a lot of the more recent ways of out of the box music distribution in passing, as they took place around the time the OUATIS saga evolved. Thus you get his insight into free music for promotional use, the Soundcloud business model, U2/Apple, Jay-Z/Tidal, Taylor Swift vs. Spotify and vs. Apple (after the Beats Electronic purchase). These are all interesting points.
He also throws in two lesser known stories about small scale one off distribution models by singular artists that are extremely interesting. I'm not gonna spoil those for you here.
* Unfortunately, the author does not give credit where it is due. Wu-corp member JZA gets his rightful spot in the story with the Skrillex episode (without a name drop though), but only so because it set real life events into motion. Other suggestions made by corpers in the various 'It's coming...' type threads are mentioned as perspectives provided by the author himself.
Two examples that come to mind are the mentioning and meaning of the one copy Jean Michel Jarre album by a fellow corper (I apologize, I forget who it was) and the KLF burning one million pounds of their music revenue, which was actually my own suggestion in the thread, when I was still posting under (IIRC) my Jacob Jay moniker. It's intellectually unfair that the author presents these ideas as his own. Either he has been reading the threads himself or Ringz has discussed these events in music history with the author - after having read them in the 'It's coming ...' thread.
* If all of what is described in this book is true - and I have no reason to doubt it - the news media (and not just the media that exclusively report on music, such as HipHopDX) are in a sad state. Even respected media outlets like Forbes, Bloomberg and The Times seem to fuck up at one time or another, just by going for either a (perceived) scoop, clickbait or by (slightly) framing a narrative their own way. Sadly, I am not surprised.
On a side note I always found it excruciating that 'the best hiphop news site' is HipHopDX and that it sets the bar SO LOW. Really, hiphop deserves much better.
* It's fascinating how some parts of this whole story that have seemed essential to us corpers are only dealt with briefly. A good example would be Method Man's infamous outburst. While all of it is actually explained and put into perspective in the book, such a seminal episode (to us, fans, at least) only gets about a page or so in the book and is dwarfed by other events.
And the strange thing is, that as a reader, you get that, since the author unfolds the whole narrative of the OUATIS album here, and the Method Man tantrum is just one of many, MANY setbacks to Ringz' plan.
* What about RZA? I can't seem to shake the impression his role in all of this is beefed up somewhat in the retelling of the early events of how OUATIS came into being. In the end, we will never know for sure. You see, it is entirely possible for Ringz to have withheld some of RZA's input into what would eventually become OUATIS in his 'It's coming ...' thread, which would mean we were kept in the dark BACK THEN, as opposed to now.
* Who is the author? He is a fixer for the investor for Ringz' album with Killah Priest - the embryo of OUATIS so to speak. He is on board as an advisor when things start taking the OUATIS route. He has a say in things, but does not get an ultimate vote. You get the impression he's been into a lot of wheeling and dealing before, mostly so on the same investor's behalf, in other investments. The name of the investor is not divulged by the way, and does not really matter in the grand scheme of things anyway.
* What of Ringz? His determination and forward thinking shine through. I was always in favor of the one copy album as an art statement and was not bothered by not getting to hear the album. As I have stated so often on this forum, there's plenty of Wu music to go around anyway. That's just me though. I get how others would want to hear that classic sound again.
You can't help but admire how many practical roadblocks Ringz clears up on his way to having the album auctioned. There is a myriad of practical issues that need to be resolved (we as fans had no idea, really) and at a later stage a lot of legal work needs a hands on approach (with the aid of lawyers, obviously) because this sale sails into uncharted territory, so to speak. There is no existing legal framework for it as this kind of sale has never been done before, so a lot of legal problems need handling on the fly.
What I take away from the book is that Ringz tried to do too much, by not just stopping at organizing the sale (for what to my perception are valid reasons concerning the intrinsic value of music), but by going the extra mile AND ACTUALLY TRYING TO ENSURE THE ALBUM ENDS UP WITH FANS IN THE END ANYWAY. This is his so called 'Plan B'. It takes quite a bit of ethical and practical thinking to link the one album concept with having it heard by anyone who's interested in the end. I liked the practical solution well enough (it involved CD-r's but I'm not getting into logistics here), but there was a lot of 'theater', as it is often referred to in this book (I would call it lying), involved in pulling this off.
Is it still lying to the public if it helps the public in the end (= they'd get to hear the music)? Maybe you would say no. I would say yes. It's a matter of personal opinion. On the other hand, you can now state without a shadow of a doubt that these 'theatrics' are in the open right now with the publication of this book. Coming clean like this takes a lot of balls and I now understand why Ringz stated earlier that the author did not necessarily draw a flattering picture of him - even though he writes about Ringz with the utmost respect. It's just, all Ringz' actions are revealed. Ringz REALLY likes plotting, and for good reasons. Making a statement about art. Getting the music to the fans in the end.
It should be noted that at times RZA was kept in the dark about some of this plotting, until 'the right time' arrived.
Now, for plotting you need everyone to be on the same line. And this is where things went awry. The Daraprim story was bad enough, but Ringz, RZA, Bozorgmehr and Paddle8 managed to work around it. It was just really really bad luck / bad timing.
But Shkreli's later moves were so out of control that they took Ringz by surprise. Thus Plan B (getting the music to the fans) sadly blew up in Ringz' face. Here was a guy who seemed to want to buy the album for the right reasons but turned out to have certain destructive character traits that made him play along with Ringz' Plan B too well - overselling his bad guy role (towards us fans) so much that it painted Ringz and RZA into a corner.
It is to the author's credit that he had continuously advised against Plan B (for moral reasons). On the other hand, had Plan B worked out all of us would be listening to the album now - and you'd be laughing at me, who would rather have the album remained unheard to protect its status as a singular work of art and strong artistic statement.
* So what does this leave us with? A sweeping gesture (the one copy album sale) that was meant as a comment on music appreciation and validation turned into a media frenzy that alternated between the Wu being perceived as having been duped (i.e. a tarnished reputation) due to Shkreli's antics and the Wu being perceived as heroes due to the Bill Murray caper clause a fan invented.
This is the quirky story of how an album became music history - with only two, possibly three people having heard it in its entirety in finished form.
* Some questions you might be thinking of
_ the actual album price is never mentioned, on purpose obviously
_ the canceling of the museum tour is explained in great detail. valid reasons in my opinion, though I would have loved for this to happen for both the fans and as a reiteration of the original statement about music as art
_ There is something DEEPLY wrong with Martin Shkreli. His ability for self sabotage is absolutely worrying.
_ RZA comes from a place of deep peace and respect, it was heartwarming to read really.
_ Ringz had good intentions but in the end I guess you have to know when to stop plotting.
_ The sheer fact that this book is available now shows how well Ringz, RZA and Bozorgmehr meant.
You're welcome. If you wanna share thoughts, go for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by irish ins
@Lee Towers, happy to answer outstanding questions you have.
thanks! I only have one question.
now I don't know whether he told you, but did Martin Shkreli explain why he put in his original offer on the auction so late? he was the last one to put in a (serious) bid, by then the deal might have already been sealed with one of the other four interested parties.
Martin Shkreli might have come off also as someone who was not THAT interested since he put in his offer so late.
That's why I was wondering whether he explained his timeline. Or was it never really an issue for you, RZA and Cyrus?
Crazy how the album was up on the dark web for Shkreli or buyers to preview. Did I read that right??
Also, no worries on the name drop re: the Skrillex thing. ;) I'm just fascinated that it actually happened and was reported on.
I'll be honest, I ran through the book on first read when I bought it digitally. I'll read the hard cover through again.
Peace
Martin's offer came right after the MOMA Exhibition. We could've closed the deal before with one of the other 4 parties but knew we were preparing an exhibition which would bring more interest. Martin only found out about the album after reading news about the exhibition. The exhibition was hugely important for us and our concept. To have an album exhibited as an art piece in an institution such as the MoMA was one fo the goals achieved. A funny anecdote was that apparantly, Ethan Suplee was there on behalf of Leonardo diCaprio who couldn't attend due to shooting The Revenant in Canada. Leo is a huge Wu fan and art collector so word was he sent his friend Ethan to check it out. Word has it that Ethan found it all way too pretentious, especially with the huge queue outside in the snow and everybody's phone being taken away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Towers
As for the cussing in the book, if you know Cyrus personally, that's how he talks, naturally. He uses high end words all the time (Eton educated) and swears left right and center.
I think the Method Man bit was pretty well explained. If you need to know more, let me know.
No lawyers helped with the contract from our side. I used my experience in Entertainment Law and Cyrus brought a good set of rational thinking to the table and we ended up negotiating it for three months with Shkreli's group of lawyers.
Theatre for me was the single most important thing. It would've allowed me to play out the entire project in three parts, concluding with what I coded my POST101 moment. It was a human experiment, personally and selfishly deemed necessary for the music industry and its future, but also to achieve that Keyzer Sozy moment, without a doubt partially for egotistical reasons. I think the book explains well why RZA, Cyrus and Clan members were on board with the first part of the concept, but why they doubted part 2 and 3 (only known to RZA and Cyrus at that time), and how I kept pushing for it while suddenly having an unreliable factor in the mix of what could only be achieved through meticulous preparation and theatre. Its still the biggest regret I have to this day, that I wasn't able to achieve the entire concept. Plan B was the most intrinsic concept I had ever written out and I still imagine what it would've been like if it had worked. And yes, plotting and scheming is something I love. The Usual Suspects is my second favorite movie ever.
thank you for answering my question about Martin's timeline, for responding to some of my other remarks about the book and the events it describes and for further explaining your rationale behind the second and third phase of your OUATIS planQuote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
I'm glad Cyrus' book now shows us everything that went down over the last few years with OUATIS, in what culminated in an important event in modern day popular music history
What do I get...
for making Post101 ?
Did you guess it though?
No, i have no idea what that even means. I just thought I would get a prize for making the 101st post in this thread.
Free pair of snowballs underwear signed by Ringz in shaolin red for Vandelay
https://media.giphy.com/media/5zlmNOprLeh5C/200.gif
Those snowballs have done quite well, helped a few parents conceive when told they couldn't have babies. Wu-Tang is for the babies.
But you aren't wu-tang dude ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
really? thats all you got?
^^lol
Cilva, can ya boy get a book? I thoroughly enjoy reading.
Amazon, bongQuote:
Originally Posted by Cinematic
Finished this boek. Gotta say I really rather enjoyed it. Wasn't so fond of the author and all the rubbish about the number 8 was really fucking annoying, but otherwise the story was quite interesting and compelling for the most part. It did drag a bit around the middle though, with all the museum and auction shit.
I would have one question for Cilva, and that is simply when you completed the album, having set out with a goal of what you wanted to achieve musically, how satisfied were you with the finished product? Did the album turn out how you had envisioned it, and did it fulfill the vision you had had of it?
Happy you enjoyed the book. Hope you understand now how the album to came to be, and how I was planning to play it all out to get it released and what went wrong. Regarding the album.. I'm a perfectionist in the sense that I will never be happy with it. I haven't heard it since it went to Martin. I remember at that time I was definitely feeling it. Right now, if I heard it again, I'd probably keep 60/65% of it, re-arrange it, maybe add something to it, I don't know. It's a different time now. It's a strong album, and the guys are in top form. But despite of everybody thinks, the psychology of it is that it will no way in hell ever live up to the expectations everybody has for it now. The hype is beyond anything I've witnessed before. It might just be an experience similar to say a girl you were in love with all these years and then finally you get that kiss or sex and you're like: hmm ok, that was good but it wasn't like I thought it was gonna be.. Just because you played that shit up in your head beyond anything realistic. But for me, the album fulfilled the vision I had of it and there were tracks on there that were beyond what I thought I was capable of making. But it wasn't just me who made this. The emcees were awesome and beyond.Quote:
Originally Posted by noel411
Cool bro. Personally I c no reason to have especially high expectations of it. I was in that boat for a while, where I was like it could never live up to the hype. But really none of the hype has anything to do with the music. I don't look at it differently to any other album. I look at it as an album with all the right intentions, but I don't know how on board all the participants were and what kind of form they brought in. After reading the book I must say I'd love to hear the album, but I just don't see the clan as being a united force anymore, and that limits what they r capable of doing, especially on an album like this where it seemingly wasn't a joint vision and joint group effort.
I do expect it'd stand above other recent wu shit tho. Surely it is some kind of breath of fresh air (I've never heard any snippets or anything BTW). I'm not holding out for a leak or anything, but def hoping to hear it one day.
Funny enough it sounds like more of a joint effort than other albums. And unfortunately the Clan hasn't been a united force as we define it, in a long time. See GZA's comments in a RollingStone article: "The Clan hasn't been on the same page for 20 years."Quote:
Originally Posted by noel411
Oh well, why continue?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
Another question for cilvaringz... Did u consider having the one copy pressed to vinyl instead of CDs? If so can u tell us y u chose to go with CDs?
Considered it briefly but that would require sending in the master to a pressing plant which would mean we couldn't guarantee a single existance of the music + there could be a leak of the album. Most leaks happen at the pressing plants. We chose CDs only because that way we could keep the album safe on the darknet until time for sale commenced. We would then download it and put it either on two CDRs or a USB stick if he so wanted. We were nervous as hell that custom agents would inspect the CDs and scratch them while inspecting. So we did it the other way and deleted it all. We do actually have Covers that were made for it, vinyl as well.
Cool man. Makes sense.