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It looks like a full scale invasion they are attacking from Belarus as well. I'm guessing the end plan is to cut Ukraine from the Black sea and leave Kiev and Lviv to the Ukrainians while the rest is Russian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal Incandenza
There's videos showing aerial combat outside of Kiev.
Putin's boys had better not post up on the Polish border
Monkey killing monkey killing monkey over piecess of the ground.
The speech about coumnter naziism in Ukraine was batshit crazy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HANZO
That’s because nuclear weapons have taken all the fun out of war, People/countries are too scared to attack because the consequences are too sever. This should really be a major war against Russia but because of nuclear weapons it’s just going to be a bit of a scrap probably?
That’s a shame.
I feel like all the tweets implying various countries are pooseh is actually what's going to cause a larger scale conflict than any real geo-political rationale. In the end of the day the whole of NATO owes its political offices to the people on twitter saying they're pooseh.
Serbia is the only country cool with the invasion lol, those assholes are always on the wrong side of history
China said it was not an invasion. But they have been eyeing Taiwan for years now. Especially after they invaded Hong Kong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenchild
The ties between Serbia and Russia are strong. The shared orthodox religion plays a part in this too. My sister's in laws are Serbian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenchild
China is gonna feel the pain though, they import a shitload of stuff from Ukraine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet Set
https://oec.world/en/profile/bilater...4B%20in%202019.
That is going to be something. I was already reading about there huge grain & barley exports. Even if China & Russia are buddies, it will take some time before the industries are back on the same level as before.
Haha
https://www.theguardian.com/world/vi...soldiers-video
All the talk about sanctions feels like like empty promises seeing the soldier march in and hospitals getting bombed.
Can we update the thread title? World War 3 or something...
not that I'm in the know obviously but it's pretty safe to assume NATO will not send troops into Ukraine, even if things get much worse (= complete takeover of the country without ecen installing a puppet government - seems unlikely). NATO is only in place to protect its own members and the borders.
Putin has warned "Europe will see a catastrophe like none they have witnessed before if it interferes". ol boy is talking about nukes. this is posturing because he knows NATO is not there to go help out a country adjacent to NATO territory
As long as NATO don't send in troops there is no immediate global threat like a WW3 type event in the making
NATO will stick to its member states sending weapons and all kinds of supplies and making sure Ukrainian refugees are taken care of
what we will see in the near future is more expenditure by member states on their own defense budget and on NATO's defense budget. Some EU states are notoriously behind on their expenses in terms of NATO support (Belgoum, Luxemburg etc) Obama, Biden and in a more outspoken way Trump have called these member states on their shit and they were right to do so
and just like in the Cold War days we will see more permanent troops on NATO borders in Europe
we will also see more of a push for the Green Deal that the EU agreed on because more green energy will mean less dependence on Russian oil and gas
right now some EU states don't want to go all the way with financial repercussions for Russia because of outstanding debt in oil and gas purchases and the (remote) possibility Putin will cut Europe off from 'his' gas and oil
as ALL EU states are pretty scared right now and realize there is very little they can do to calm Putin tf down (they are energy dependent) the Green Deal will become more important
you know Europeans must be really shitting their pants when the PMs of Poland and Slovakia - not exactly EU boys - are calling for 'immediate EU action'
imo the EU should also invest in a large EU army, which would make the EU less dependent of the US in NATO too. in terms of 'scaring' Putin it might not help much though
Putin might take over part of Ukraine but NATO might in turn accept more countries (not Ukraine, not Georgia) as members. Sweden and Finland are thinking about joining now
I will say that if Finland applies for NATO membership and gets accepted things will get much dicier (dicy-er?) as Finland borders on Russia. that'd drive Putin completely over the edge - invasion of Finland and bombs over the EU (no nukes still I think). Finland becomes NATO member = WW3 starts
The Netherlands seem to be willing to send quite a lot of weaponry (in proportion to its own army) to Ukraine. the MH17 trauma (RIP) probably plays part in this?
meanwhile China is studying the SHIT out of NATO, EU and US reactions to predict how their invasion of Taiwan (I see it happening before 2030) is gonna play out internationally
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal Incandenza
Who the hell is Putin to make that kind of threat? West allies should send troops in (Britain, US, NATO) to Ukraine to drive the Russians out and inflict a humiliating lose on them? I don’t mind them not attacking Russia directly but who the hell is Putin to tell a sovereign nation/nation’s what they can and can’t do on their own territory.
Zalensky should make the call?
due to budget shifts in the EU as hinted at above I think social security provisions etc will go down - coupled with higher retail prices for food and goods due to oil & gas price surges, the war and the tail end of transportation problems of goods due to COVID
tl;dr : we're fucked
Zelensky made that call yesterday but NATO & US aren't gonna go for itQuote:
Originally Posted by zooruka
Accurate posts Hal. Theres no good ending to this.
A war between the EU and Russia would be a huge L for humanity. At the same time letting Putin have his way this time around increases the likelihood of more attacks either way, plus a number of other shitty consequences that Hal hinted at.
Can we update the thread title Hal? Just seems like its already history.
sure thing, thread title changed accordingly
Hard for me to have an objective opinion on this whole situation because US media is so biased about this situation across the board.
But it raises a lot of red flags for me when warhawks have been drooling for this for almost a decade. Like the supermajority of most Americans, I don’t think we should be involved.
But we will do what we do and fight a proxy war that will just prolong this conflict for years.
Any US President that sends actual troops in there will face war protests not seen since Vietnam. So that completely off the table.
Western Europe needs to protect itself. For too long they’ve been suckling the test of US taxpayer backed military protection.
Just so you Euro’s understand the majority of us don’t care. Don’t believe what you see about “stand with Ukraine celebrity BS.
Also, American political criticism of Putin and Russia are laughable at best because they’re total hypocrites. They also created some of the instability in Urkaine.
They want us to care so badly but we don’t.
The WW3 thing was intended to be facetious btw.
Still, don't think it can't happen, theres a bunch of ways this could play out.
I'm definitely not saying you're wrong Dooch, but its always funny when you speak for everybody else. You don't strike me as a man of the people.
I see you on the WW3 comment
the problem is if an 'accident' happens tensions will be so high it will be very hard to dial it back. in that case NATO's hand will be forced.
I'm mostly concerned about possible future fights extremely close to the Polish/Slovakian/Rumanian border. (Moldowa is not a factor here). in the same lane : missiles that miss the mark and land just across the border in Poland. Russian fighter jets or military helis that cross over into Polish airspace. I know all three scenarios seem unlikely and if they happen they really WILL be accidents
Putin will want to avoid these kinds of mistakes at all costs but of course he depends on his people on the ground. mistakes have been known to happen
if such an accident arises Putin's best bet is if it happens on Hungarian territory. Orbàn and Putin sort of see eye to eye. Rumania,Slovakia or Poland - especially Poland : no bueno for anybody
Putin has probably given the troops orders to avoid Ukraine's borders with neighboring countries (not including Belarus and Moldowa) for as long as possible during the invasion, i.e. as long as there is no tactical disadvantage to it in the fights with the Ukranians
That’s because you Don’t have a very good grasp on what the average American thinks. And your opinion of me is pretty inaccurate as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaDynasty
When all of your American experience is what you get in music or on tv, youre woefully misinformed.
Most Americans couldn’t find Ukraine on a map and have zero context regarding the entire situation. I’d venture to say most don’t even know what NATO stands for or why it was even created to begin with.
In a recent poll, 74% of Americans said they don’t want to get involved with the dispute. Overwhelmingly more Americans are embracing a more isolationist foreign policy stance, due to the endless wars of the past 20 years. This is true both on the far left and the “American first” right.
You might not think it but I guess you can ask the other Americans their opinions on it.
it's been clear since before the Trump administration both US politicians and the people want to stay more out of foreign politics, Trump's exception being China (the North Korea thing was window dressing)
I hear you on the 'forever wars'
Biden is not gonna send in troops (well, into the EU he will, but not outside of NATO territory) after he's just left Afghanistan
I wouldn't put it past Putin to think that now was the time to go ahead with the invasion just after the US left Afghanistan - not that this would be in any way the US' fault
There’s alot of different angles to this whole thing. I’m not buying that Putin is the only nefarious character in this conflict. US actions toward Russia have been passive aggressive for a decade now. That’s why I said our gov has been hypocritical. And our press and CIA has been fueling the fire for this for awhile.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal Incandenza
But make no mistake, most Americans want nothing to do with it. They know what it is.
Things went really sideways when Zelensky, who was elected on a program of anti-corruption and easing tensions with Russia, went off script a good while into his term. at first after the election there were prisoner exchanges and talks with the Russian government but that all sort of fizzled out and Zelensky turned out not to be the safe bet Putin had hoped for. the Donbas frontline remained at a bloody stailmate and Zelensky was looking to the West
but really that was just the impetus - Putin's been in a rage since the Maidan revolution in 2014 and has, in more general terms, been upset ever since the USSR collapsed. the chip on his shoulder is gianormous by now
meanwhile the invasion isn't going as smoothly as hoped for. the Ukranians are putting up a good fight right now but in the end the numbers will speak. Russia's army is just THAT big
the only way this ends soon now is if Zelensky is taken captive or killed by Russian special forces in Kiev this week or next week
You have to be trolling. Literally the first thing I said was you're not wrong, and you still wrote all that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dooch
I was talking about you personally. My opinion of you can only be based on what you say here, so it is what it is.
I have family in America, and used to travel there fairly often. Actually they're probably a little to the right of you even.
I don't think I've ever attempted to talk about what Americans think anyway. Seems like an odd thing to call me out on.
See thatÂ’s the problem. If US and NATO forces go into Ukraine and fight that could be the only way to defeat Russia without going through a Nuclear war?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal Incandenza
But you should care? Russia needs to be dealt with and this might be a good chance to fight/deal with them without resorting to nuclear war?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dooch
Also doesnÂ’t Biden have a connection to Ukraine? It could be a good excuse to get involved?
I commented and you came at me. I responded. Pretty simple. You don’t like what I have to write, ignore it or get cunty. Don’t bother me either way.0Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaDynasty
Lol it’ll be ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by zooruka
On a side note IÂ’m really impressed with the Ukrainian president heÂ’s standing by his people and not chickening out like a coward like some leaders do.
It’s actually not ok, how can you control/defeat these superpowers if you don’t take opportunities like this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dooch
By killing your self.Quote:
Originally Posted by zooruka