and i'm actually glad u aren't one of 'em
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and i'm actually glad u aren't one of 'em
9 Mili Bros. should have been a great track, instead its half arsed.
cappas vesre is terrible, gzas is recycled, deck sounds terrible.
the beat is average also, and recycled.
I agreed with everything but that. There are great new American hip-hop artists, better than most Aussie hip-hop in my opinion. Now if you're talking about like American 'Commercial' Rappers vs. Hilltop Hoods i would completely agree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by sean michael
It's bullshit because you don't agree with my opinion on that track? I'm not allowed to think it's a poor track because you think it's tight? The beat is nice, but I got sick of recycled Doom beats a good year or so before this album dropped. And it's poorly mixed, sounds cheap, and is about the most lackluster effort a Wu fan could have expected from such a line up.Quote:
Originally Posted by beautifulrock
Great. You're absolutely entitled to conclude whatever you want. I can tell you that this is a fairly poor conclusion though. People seem to think that just because I don't like Ghost's more recent stuff, I don't like anything that doesn't sound like early Ghost material. People ought to think more.Quote:
after listening to most of your maddening commentary on this thread, I conclude you are just a hater unwilling or unable to expand his mind or horizons
Yes Ghost puts out all this music for us to listen to and discuss, so if I wanna express my thoughts on it in an honest manner I really don't see why anybody should be bothered by it. I DO see that Ghost has fallen off, and I have every right to say so here on a Wu-Tang discussion forum.Quote:
Shame on you for even starting this thread. At least ghost puts the time and effort in to try and produce a lot of material. While I agree that its not all great, I don't see in any way that ghost has fallen off
So do I, and I expressed that in my initial post. I mentioned my being puzzled as to why people started acting more and more like Ghost was some sort of God as his product seemed to go further and further downhill. It's not just people on Wu forums I refer to, it's the hip hop community as a whole. Like I get newsletters from UGHH where they say how absolutely fantastic Ghost is and quote an average verse, whereas there is no way in hell that would have happened back in the 90's when he was dropping much better material.Quote:
On the contrary I think he has more fans then ever before.
yeah it was a bit of an exaggeration, i mean mainstream artists i guess, but more underground acts/cross over acts do that shit to. example = wu.
for the majority of crossover (Ghost, Meth, Jay, NaS, Mobb Deep) artists in the US it is a prerequisite to have a "radio track" or an "rnb track" on your album. this has always annoyed me alot.
You really shouldn't bother addressing comments such as the one that guy made. Here's a legendary noel411 jewel, haha...Quote:
Originally Posted by sean michael
Quote:
It's a pity to see so many people using that whole Aussie thing to discount peoples opinions on here. I guess you get that when you have a forum with so many sheep and bandwagon jumpers on it. The irony of such comments is that though the intention is to discredit my opinion, such foolishness only serves to instantly invalidate your own opinion.
You really think you are all knowing when it comes to artistic merit don't you? So lets see he gets more and more fans but the material gets worse and worse, O.k. that makes tons of logical sense. You must be right. I wholeheartedly apologize. Don't bother to respond. I'm done with this nonsense. I'm goin to listen to more fish again
Without a doubt, he's better than most rappers out today and I still love his songs but hoenstly, SC was classic and I think we all want those days back.
Sidenote, how fucking dope would it be to have Ghost and Sean Price do an album together? That would be fucking insane.
Quote:
Originally Posted by noel411
haha, thanks for dropping a gem on me,
i always know people are in trouble when they try to argue by saying "your from australia, you lost".
oh well, these people will probably never learn.
I know where you're coming from. Most Wu-Tang Clan fans are the same, they want 8 Diagrams to be like "Enter the 36 Chambers", they want all it to be like the good ole' days. I used to think like this too. Then I realized, if I wanted to listen to the Old Sound I can just pop those albums into the stereo. There's no need miss the old days, and must realize that artists are always trying to advance and not redo what they have already done.Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidPhosphate69
Don't get upset, dude. I'm just trying to have a serious debate here. Do you expect me to just read your opinion and then pretend I agree with everything you said? I'm not trying to suggest my opinion is fact, and there is no reason why you should suppose I am. If you don't want to debate with me then don't, but don't get upset and frustrated just because you don't like what I'm saying.Quote:
You really think you are all knowing when it comes to artistic merit don't you? So lets see he gets more and more fans but the material gets worse and worse, O.k. that makes tons of logical sense. You must be right. I wholeheartedly apologize. Don't bother to respond. I'm done with this nonsense. I'm goin to listen to more fish again
And really, come on man. You think this suggestion is unlikely? I could name plenty of artists who this applies to. You seem to be forgetting that people ARE NOT logical.Quote:
So lets see he gets more and more fans but the material gets worse and worse, O.k. that makes tons of logical sense
yeah would be tight, sean p picks good beats.Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidPhosphate69
i was thinking right, that sean p is the perfect example of a cross over artist who has got it right. every beat off his new album ranges from decent to great and his lyrics are consistantly good throughout. he has changed his entire style from back in the bcc and heltah skeltah days, but has done it in a way which is still good. all mc's should note what he has done imo, he still discusses mainstream subjects, but with humour and sarcasm.
and to think people use the term "back packer" as an insult.
I just want to hear some good, appealing music. I would much rather hear something that sounds fresh and original than something that takes it back to the old days. The catch is that fresh and original isn't enough if the music is not appealing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scáth Bán
It's interesting you bring up Sean P's ears for beats. If you check out the opinions on alot of other forums most seem to think the beats he uses from 9th Wonder and other Justus League producers are too "soft" (aka boring). Not that I agree (I thought his newest album was really good, and his first album was better), but Sean P's ear for beats is not something I generally read being complimented (unlike Ghostface, who, outside of this puzzling thread, generally gets complimented everywhere).Quote:
Originally Posted by sean michael
i dont really see what your point is, no offense intended.
why does it matter what people on other forums think, in my experience other hip hop forums (the large ones at least) are full of bullshit.
ghost is one of the better members from the wu in terms of picking beats, but his last few albums have been very inconsistant throughout in terms of beats. there were some really good beats on fishscale followed by terrible tracks... thats all i was saying.
sean p's album has consistant dope beats.
What's up with the hate on DOOM's beats? I know they're recycled, and do believe that Ghostface's "whiny" style sounds better over harder/grittier beats, but I still believe MF is one of the best producers out there.
My point is your opinion of Sean P's ears for beats is definately in the minority (although I agree with you about his consistant dope beats), and outside of this thread, generally speaking, as is your opinion about Ghostface's ears beats (that's where I disagree with you).Quote:
Originally Posted by sean michael
Also you claim other hip-hop forums are full of bullshit. There is certainly something to that, but this forum isn't without it's bullshit (take this thread for example, which would be much better suited in the bring da ruckus forum with all the other "Is Illmatic really a classic??" type of ish).
I dont like every single thing hes done but still one of my favourite MC's...
Dissing hollow bones is just crazy though. Great flow and Narratives from all MC's involved in that track over an ill ass loop.
I can understand dissing the Holocaust verse (although I personally love the ridiculousness of it)
My problems with Fishscale was that there were pretty much no Hard sounding beats in it except for Clipse of Doom. Every beat was just pretty good samples with not too much done in terms of Drums which works sometimes but not over an entire 20+ track album. Id have loved to hear some more menacing type shit.
Id rather have had the best from More Fish and Fishscale on one album, that would have been one Really Great album instead of one pretty good one and one that I just picked around 6 tracks for my ipod from.
I didn't diss the track. Deck and Rae killed it. I just can't stand Ghost's verse.Quote:
Originally Posted by J-DON
ghostface needs some bronze nazareth beats
haha 11th chamber get back in your cage ...
haha noel411 ... typical parra supporter ... def somtin in the water out west for sure ... ahaha just playin ...
noel got a point ... to a degree ... ironman isnt classic imo ... SC is ... BW is muff ... pretty toney is good but not classic either ... more fish is 5/10 at best ... fishscale is ghost equivalent to the W ... pretty good but instead of talkn how dope it is u left to ponder how dope it could of been ... but ghost has been keeping wu on the map ... if it wasnt for ghost wu wouldnt be in hardly anyone's fuckin mouths ... he's been the hardest working motherfucker in the clan ... almost as if hes the only who gives a shit ... maybe excluding GZA ...
Golden Arms Redemption > Fishscale > More Fish :tease:
yeh motherfuckers i said it ... what ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonearm_Terrorwrist
Ya goddamn right :yes:
I see alot of discussion going on here. One of the main things though is the inability of alot of people here to have a civilized constructed discussion. I mean somebody can not like the entire Ghostface catalogue just because it isn't his tate of music. That man is still right in his opinion. There is no absolute truth, in my opinion. If there is, I think you are not right here in this open forum.
Awell, this in itself is a discussion.Quote:
fo·rum http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/g...una/thinsp.pnghttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif /ˈfɔrhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/g...una/thinsp.pngəm, ˈfoʊrhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/g...una/thinsp.pngəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fawr-uhhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/g...una/thinsp.pngm, fohr-uhhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/g...una/thinsp.pngm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun, plural fo·rums, fo·ra http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/g...una/thinsp.pnghttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif /ˈfɔrhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/g...una/thinsp.pngə, ˈfoʊrhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/g...una/thinsp.pngə/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fawr-uh, fohr-uh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation. 1.the marketplace or public square of an ancient Roman city, the center of judicial and business affairs and a place of assembly for the people. 2.a court or tribunal: the forum of public opinion. 3.an assembly, meeting place, television program, etc., for the discussion of questions of public interest. 4.the Forum, the forum in the ancient city of Rome.
Just lay off the irrelevant arguments like questioning his credibility on place of residence. That has nothing to do with the discussion going on and his placement of argument within the discussion.
Doom beats.
I think they're boring. The loops are too simple. And the announcing they are on a Ghost album, only to discover they are re-used beats is even worse. Heard it all Before Ghost. Yes, I am anxious for new stuff. Not boring re-used stuff.
9 Milli Brothers
It had me amped when announced. Then I listened. I listened again. Was this a Clan track? OR were these vocals slapped together via email. Put them in Pro Tools, mix them, we got a track. The rapped for the moment.
This is only speculation, but this track sounded like a example of one of the bigger problems circluating. Artists & Producers not working together in the same space on the same track. I just think you can hear the difference. And somebody like Ghost is plagued by it, so was Meth. Interaction is missed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beautifulrock
lmao!!!! Are u serious??? U must hear an see somethin different than what i do? It should be extremely obvious to most if not all that Ghost has taken a turn for the worst an has fallen off. Although a great album, but Ghost has been declining since Supreme Clientele. Ghost has yet to make an album better let alone equal to IRONMAN. If u take a look back Ghost fell off more an more each album. B/c u could even see on SC where Ghost was headed. Although not bad the Cher chez laghost song an video got his commercial buzz going and since then he's been tryin to break down the door to the commercial world. Itz funny tho! With all of his commercial efforts they still front on him. He still can't break thru.
I dunno if yal notice or not but Ghost sells less records now than he did in the past. Every album that drops now he's one video and done! Correct me if i'm wrong but when IRONMAN dropped Ghost had like 3 video singles off of that classic album! He's puttin out more material than ever nowadayz, but my question is? Who is it reaching? What kind of impact is it making? Nobody cares about what Ghostface drops anymore. Regular people come up to me they see that i'm a wu-head, they wanna talk to me about Ironman and how sick that album is! They don't wanna talk about BPW or Pretty Tony. They don't even know those albums exist.
And i see all of this talk about how Ghost is the most consistent? Consisitent what? Just b/c he drops severly average/mediocre album after album? He's the most consistent at declining over the years. U probably could say u-god? But U-god doesn't have alot of albums like ghost to judge so yea it is ghost. IMO Ghost is just one big band wagon that people love to ride on for whatever reason i dunno y? When ghost was at his best.....'95 (cuban linx)....'96 (ironman)....'97 (Wu-tang Forever) he never got the kind of love that he's gettin now! Itz weird! In that 3yr...3 album spand Ghost might've been the illest emcee within the clan or in hiphop in general. Ghost was on fire in that era!
And before i go i wanna address the one kid that said the Ironman lp was just "ok"......
I dunno man i looked at ur age i see that ur only 21. So u were only 10yrs old when IRNMN dropped. U might've been too young for that album or somethin? Or maybe u weren't even into wu back then? But u just had to be in that era! I know every1 has their own opinion but daaamn just "ok"??? Are u serious?? IRNMN reigns supreme in Ghost's catelog! Thatz a certifiedd Wu-classic! It had all of the right elements and ingredients! U can say IRNMAN is a spin off of Cuban Linx.....if u think about it? Itz like it was already Cuban Linx 2 before rae even came out with it. Like a continuation from where ob4cl left off.
what aload of bullshit
ghostface is critically acclaimed - that means he is respected for being highly talented and is dropping quality albums. You don't agree with most critics in hip hop so don't be talking as if ghost being wack now is the excepted truth. Its your opinion - that means you don't like his recent style. If ghost was really mediocre then that would be the general consensus and he wouldn't be so acclaimed. btw if you say you don't give a fuck about the critics - they have more sway than you
The truth is ghost receives the most hate here, by wu fanatics that believe he is some kind of traitor for moving on. Infact I haven't seen any hate on ghost other than this forum.
wow...no comment on this thread...
ghost has already said he cant spit or write as fast as he once could so to expect him to spit like he did pior to bullet proof is just unfair.
Even though ghost isint as dope as he use to be he's still one of most consistant mc's in the wu-tang. How many wu members have arguably 2 classics and a string of albums that range form solid to good? ONE, GHOSTFACE.
while i believe the thread starter had good intentions, the direction this thread is going is making it bring the ruckus material.
bottom line, ghostface is going a direction that has split his listeners. some like where he's going and some dont and there isnt much in between.
I love the way Ghost fans go to such lengths to justify Ghost. So now Ghost is hot because no one made a thread about U-God? Yeah right!
Released to many albums, maybe.
Glad to see this thread moved to the right place.
*awaits the "GZA Fell Off & Became Boring" classic thread to further add to my puzzlement*
To even try to compare U-God to Ghostface is kinda not realistic.
He is better, judging by fans, and material, and critically acclaimed material and also non critically acclaimed material.
Not everyone is going to like Ghost, more often than not they will, but he HAS been a part of at least 4 classic albums on which he was a HUGE part, not just a bit player. So that alone cancels out any wackness.
I agree with the thread starter. Ghost hasn't dropped a solid album since Supreme Clientele. But i know he still has it in him to drop another good album. I wish he would spit more like he did on that one "Blow His Head Off" joint off of DJ Green Latern mixtape; That's the Ghost i'm feeling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyTooch
You're sayin U-God was a bit player on Enter?I couldn't imgane Da Mystery of Chessboxin' and Protect Ya Neck without his contributions.IMO he wasn't a bit player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaolinDarts
Co-sign
I think I owe it to ghost to post AMG's reviews of his albums since many think he has fallen off. Remember these are what MUSIC CRITICS think, not me.
Ironman 4.5 out of 5
Supreme Clientele 4.5 out of 5
Bulletproof Wallets 2.5 out of 5
Pretty Toney Album 3 out of 5
Fishscale 4.5 out of 5
More Fish 3.5 out of 5
It seems to me that if anything, Ghost fell off and climbed back up. Look you may not like Ghost's style or content, but denying that he is an incredibly original emcee with an unbelievable diverse catalogue is just wrong. All artists are criticized for change and Ghost is just feeling the worst of that change in this thread.
Everybody's a critic.Were just getting slammed cuz we dare to critisize Ghost on a Wu board full of wu dickriders.Quote:
Originally Posted by beautifulrock
I'm not slamming you just pointing something out, chill homie.
and you're right everybodys a critic, but these guys get PAID to criticize music and do it for a LIVING.
LOL it wasn't directed @ you man.Sorry if you thought so.Quote:
Originally Posted by beautifulrock