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Surah 62, verse 1
Those wo believe in the Quran, And those who follow the Jewish scriptures and the Christians and the Sabians, Any who believe in Allah and the Last Day and work righteousness Shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear nor shall they grieve.
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Originally Posted by muhummad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions Unseen
when muhummad talks about religion of truth he doesnt mean anything other than islam...read the quote above... he says plainly fight those who dont follow "allah and his messanger" meaning himself (messanger is singular...not messangers to include the other prophets... he said messanger meaning him)... NOW let me repeat that muhummad didnt say, "fight those that dont believe in the three religions or books or other messangers" ... NO ... he says fight against those and I quote "nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger"(which hath been forbidden byAllah and His Messenger" ...messanger is singular and who is that messanger muhummad) so in other words you should fight anyone who doesnt believe in muhummad`s message.
..... and also fight them if they dont "acknowledge the religion of Truth"... what is the religion of truth to muhummad ... that of allah and his messanger .. and who is this messanger he keeps talking about when he says allah and his messanger not JESUS not moses NO (himself)( and yes again messanger is singular meaning just him) and what religious law is he talking about when saying "which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger" not christianity or judaism...."islamic law"!...
so what muhummad is saying is that the message he is bringing is the only truth..... and is declaring that muslims should fight against anyone who doesnt follow that law what was brought by muhummad.....even if they are christians or jews, because dont worry my religion is the only truth, so it doesnt matter that i contridict my self by saying that anyone who believes in christianity and judaism will go to heaven ... because now I am saying there religions are false... why because i am allah`s true messanger who brings the real truth.... so you should fight them because they dont adhere to allahs true teachings until they are subdued and dont worry (because this is what GOD ...who made the other two religions... who has now changed his mind and for some strange reason wants you to fight his very own chosen people has commanded you to do)..
.just read the religion of truth part it is singular not plural (he is not incluyding christianity or judaism in this) meaning that his religion islam is the only religion of truth ..and all other belief should be fought against.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions Unseen
sorry but JESUS is GOD thats what christianity teaches JESUS is apart or a trinity that makes up the one and only true living GOD...its in what JESUS said.
peace
zooruka are you an idiot of some sort. is there a genetic islam hate disease going around.
your book was written by Romans. it aint the word of Jesus or God. its the word of Caesar.
hence Islam is the truth. the only truth,
Prof zooroka,
Your understanding of Islam is quite questionable. You take verses out of the Quran just like the Taliban and use those to depict a picture of Islam you would like to advertise.
The Quran must be read and understood as a collective piece, something the Bible cannot do because the Bible is a mixture of selected, again, selected gospels and letters compiled together at a much later date which Jesus could not even give his blessings to.
Start by asking yourself what Islam means. Break it down to any fundamentals you want, I see Islam as "Peace" and "Submission to Allah", the one God to whom all praises are due. The same God who is God in the eyes of Christian and Jews and any other person who believes in one God.
Allow me to bring forth a verse mentioned by Vision which you did not approach indicating the nature of selectiveness you display:
Surah 62, verse 1
Those wo believe in the Quran, And those who follow the Jewish scriptures and the Christians and the Sabians, Any who believe in Allah and the Last Day and work righteousness Shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear nor shall they grieve.
If this was to be read with the verses you showed, we can already see that the reader has more options and clearness what the entire and truthful message was in the Quran in relation to other followers apart from Muslims.
Let me remind you the justice displayed by Islamic leaders when Spain was partially under the control of Muslims. Where did the Jews run to? How many Churches still stood still?
The following picture is a picture not of Islamic roots,
it is a picture of politics and warfare abusing the banner of religion.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18...erai/death.jpg
Now let us examine this picture with the premise you set before namely...
"i mean no disrespect to the captive in the photo (r.i.p) but this is the reality of islam."
Therefore lets say that i mean no disrespect to the dead person in the pic (R.I.P), but this is the reality of Christianity.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18...alGraner55.jpg
It is wiser to believe that the above picture depicts warfare and the injustice and test of character warfare brings forth. Bush was quoted as well as Blair, that they felt that it was their religious duty and that God was calling them to go into these axis of terror countries and restore or implement democracy etc.
Prof, you are an example who likes to show that other faiths are less worthy than whatever you have placed your faith in.
We either live collectively and with tolerance and respect, or the world will go under.
You either change your own outlook, or die trying to implement yours.
Written in a state of PEACE
prof zooruka is a bigger faggot than black man
this comes from the same mind that thought Barack Obama wasn't really African American because he wasn't the descendant of a slave even though his father is African and he was born in America. You misunderstand a lot of things. Its not the belief of Jesus that Jesus cared about, its your actions in regards to your fellow man that he was referring to. If you can not accept universal love and treat all with respect then you can never get to God. That's what he meant, further proof of this can be found in another thing that Jesus said,Quote:
Originally Posted by prof zooruka
If you forget all else, remember these two things. Love God with all your heart and treat others as you would want to be treated.
He doesn't talk about worshipping him, he talks about having a true love for the Grand Creator of all things and to love and respect the people you're here on earth with. Jesus himself deems these most important. So you can try exalt yourself all you want but you miss the message or your own religion with the judgment you pass. An open mind leads to an open heart. I hope you can reach that level someday.
prof zooroka like many others use selective parts of a text to get a point across. it is ridiculous and lacks insight into the wider picture. worse yet, they use a text that was written 200 years after jesus' death. and the bible often quotes what Jesus said lol, how is that accurately possible if nobody had a genuine source that could verify what was being included in the Bible story book.
Then they have the guts to "break down the knowledge" with the Quran and adopt a search and quote approach again.
I am going to make a thread about this.
new sticky thread to address the above.
P.E.A.C.E and Blessings...
Please dont tell me your about to pray for me...:(WQuote:
Originally Posted by prof zooruka
What goes on now is all that goes on and all that will go on. The Eternal Present is all that exists.Quote:
but this life is tempory...and i hope there is more to this life than what goes on now...
The injustices and goodness of man are already accounted for in the present through Universal Law. It is the very reason that...Quote:
thank GOD that there is a heaven and hell where the injustic and the goodness of man will be accounted for...
Things are very wrong in this world indeed. If humans continue to act like swine we will continue to wallow in our own filth.Quote:
this way things will be made right...beacuse as things currently stand in this world ... they are very wrong..
The firey pits of Hell? Fairytale stuff. The Ancient Hebrews had no concept of Hell, it comes from Greek Mythology - like I said fairytale stuff:(W.
Heaven? Look to your own scripture. In the beginning God made this world as a paradise for man (as a vehicle for the Spirit of God) to dwell in. We f**ked it up we have to fix it up. Not some spook in the clouds.
I don't believe it. This "proof" comes from the book that is the foundation of your religion. It's like me creating a religion about flying green pigs, then writing a book laying claim to hundreds of people seeing these flying green pigs, then writing in the very same book that all these things are true because this book says they are true.Quote:
JESUS`s existance can be proven we have the testamony of the twelve disciples, the gosples, john the baptist and if you dont believe that
FACT: there was NEVER a man NAMED JESUS CHRIST. If he was a Jew he would not have the name Jesus. The word Christ is a title. We have spoken of Paul. He changed his hebrew name, Saul to Paul. Do you think a hebrew Rabbi (that you claim Jesus Christ was) would appreciate his name being changed? Which is what Paul did. Changed Yashua to Jesus and turned him into a god, but lets not get into Paul the deceiver just yet.Quote:
just read the historian josephus`s writtings, he attests that there was a man named JESUS CHRIST so all these people cant be lying or delusional... i mean josephus was an historian what beifit would it be to him to say that JESUS existed.... but he did.
"All these people"? The only people here who have to be lying or delusional are Josephus and the few people who wrote the gospels. Thats hardly convincing.
Neither is the writings by Josephus laying claim to a man named Jesus Christ very convincing. In fact the paragraph on Jesus in his book Antiquities of the Jews that I assume your talking of doesn't even appear until around the 4th century AD.
My bad. I did not mean to say Jesus contradicted himself, just that what he said contradicts the teachings of Paul and Christianity.Quote:
you said that JESUS said alot of things that contridicted himself show me one thing that he said that is contridicting what he said...
Like I said in an earlier post, admitting to faith is admitting to igorance. Faith is nothing to be proud of and should only be a stepping stone to knowledge.Quote:
JESUS taught truth salvation and gave hope to mankind that this world is not the be all and end all of it.... but if you dont believe then thats up to you but that is called having faith....
Organised? Yeah without a doubt :mmmyah:! Organised into a political tool for better control over the people. Please do not tell me there was anything divine about the councils that "organised" the Bible. There wasn't. The motive was political, that's all.Quote:
you say that things where removed and added nothing was added and what happened with the bible was that it was organised... but the fundamentals are still there the goodness of the message is present ...it hasnt been excluded...it was just organised.
Things were definitely added and removed and you didn't even address the mistranslations. And yes the goodness of the message is still there and it's much easier to find without having to sift through the bullshit of christian dogma. Trust me. You should try it. Do as Master Yoda instructed Luke. Unlearn what you have learned. Approach the Bible with a clean state. Get rid of your predetermined christian ideas and read the bible again.
Paul is a whole nother thread (I might just start one). The problem with Paul is that he told you how great he was. It's called false piety.Quote:
oh you said that paul was a deciever how and who did he decieve...paul spread the message of christ at the expense of his own life...paul was the best example of the love of GOD and that JESUS existed ...this man paul was one of the most zelous persecutor of christians and he all of a sudden was converted ( read road to damascus) and was willing to give his life to spread the message of christ so he must have had a pretty great religious exeperiance to make someone go from cheif christian hater to giving his life for christ..
Great religious experience? Hardly. He was just clever. Very clever. He did not give his life for Christ. He gained his life because of his lie of christ. Essentially he did this:
GOD (Supreme Ruler of all the worlds)
JESUS (Sage, annointed one, mediator between man and God)
PAUL (Nobody)
changed through lies to this:
JESUS as God
PAUL (Sage, annointed one, mediator between Jesus and Man)
EVERYONE ELSE
Do you think we would even hear about Paul these days if he remained a persecutor of the followers of Jesus. I highly doubt. Instead he is one of the most well known men in history and is responsible for a 3rd of the writings that form the basis of Chistianity ie. the New Testement.
You have been hoodwinked, flim-flamed, :picture:...
...deceived by Paul the deceiver.
Like I said I am not moslem. Universal Law can be seen all around you. It is the very foundation of the Universe. It is called Maat in ancient Kamitic (egyptian). It is not a writing on a scroll or tablet or whatever that says: DO NOT DO THIS!!!Quote:
you talk about universal law but what is that to you ... muhummads jihad and beheadings...I hope not.... no its the laws that where given by GOD the FATHER .... through the jews colminating in the teachings of christ... that is universal law...they are the things that bring justice and that keep man civil.....
This is Law through fear and hence not real law. True Law is upheld through love. Your idea of law does not keep man civil because, well to quote you from before:
You have been caught out. The laws of this world are based on your concept of law, the bibles concept of law, a law of fear...and look at the world. Civil? Well...you have said yourself how things currently stand.Quote:
beacuse as things currently stand in this world ... they are very wrong.
My last point has just been strengthened!Quote:
I mean if you dont believe in christ or christianity believe because of the works that where done ... i mean honestly the works that where done by christ speak for themselves (what where the works of christ and the disciples according to world standards good or evil) they where good!...now even if you dont believe in christianity you should believe in that... now take that and apply that to muhummads teachings/.. and the way he conducted himself and what he taught...anyone in there right mind can see they were evil ...even if you do believe in religion you can see that what muhummad taught and practiced was wrong even by todays standards where the world is a messed up place... by the way... i cant think of any other systems of law that we have that dont base there foundations from the bible...all law today comes from the bible foundations...unless you from a muslim country
So...the goal is to believe? And this is attained through faith?Quote:
anyway you must have faith without faith you will never believe..... in either heaven or hell or GOD for that matter....
Faith is something you aquire through sound right reasoning, and belief is a step before it. Knowledge is the end goal. Knowledge is experience.
You use this process everyday (except obivously in your religion).
You believe something.
You investigate, research and gain an intellectual understanding. This equips you with faith. Faith to take the next stop, that is to experience. To know...
Req Em Ab (Ancient Kamitic)
Man, Know thyself
SHEM HETEPQuote:
have faith
peace
i willQuote:
Originally Posted by Face of the Golden Falcon
yes but what stops man from acting like swine on mass the laws and teachings of GOD..it can only be that.because mans natural desires and thoughts and actions are evil and are opposite from what GOD teaches..and you know thats true. (man hates one another naturally, they do all sorts of bad things to each other, they are jelous,have pride and arrogance... sexually imorality and much much more just watch the news.... and all these things occure naturally in man...if it wasnt for the teachings and laws of GOD this is how man would act all the time and on a mass scale and the world would be a million times worse than it is today... I mean we have theses laws and teachings and the world still does these things could you imagine a world with out them) man is naturally a fallen and flawed race... so when you say universal justice comes from man naturally I dont know what world you are living on or what human nature your talking about because from what I can see man is naturally a sinner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Face of the Golden Falcon
that doesnt mean its not true JESUS said I have come to fufill the law...in doing that he was fufilling the teachings of judaism( bring the last and final stage of the teachings that where given to the jews... and that inculdes the revelation of heaven and hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Face of the Golden Falcon
Yes we have a duty to live as GOD called us to live to make the world a better place.... but ultimatly GOD will fix everything (the world)...we cant do it ourselves... there is evil in this world as the bible says "principalities in high places"... and they are trying to destroy mankind... the devil hates humans and GOD... the common enemy of both of us is the devil... and he is more powerful than we are " JESUS called him a strong man" and bible says"be on gaurd your enemy the devil roams around like a hungry lion , looking for somone to devour" so he is out to get us and GOD knows that so with him around the world will always be messed up and somthing man cant fix by himself...but that doesnt mean we cant resist him....but we need GOD`s help to defeat this enemy. man cant do it on his own...but ...man can do his part to help defeat the devil ( by doing what GOD commanded us to do) but like I said ultimatly GOD will be the one to settle the score and fix the world for us because this is really GOD`s battle not ours we are just caught in the struggle between good and evil and also "he knows we cant do it by ourselves"... so fixing the world is immposible without the help of GOD!Quote:
Originally Posted by Face of the Golden Falcon
yeah the proof might come from one book.... but there where numerous individuals who witnessed this( they all cant be lying) I mean honestly there wasnt some mass conspiricy to create this man named JESUS... where all these people some of which didn`t even know each other said right, we are going to sit down, and write a book to hood wink mankind with a man named JESUS and we will make all thses fantastic claims about him so we can have some sort of power or recognition in history ( really are you serious these men had to give there lives to spread there message and they were considered outcast by there societies what power or gain did they get out of doing this) and also what you are saying is .....that those that came after ( like paul) dicided o.k ...I to have heard about this conspiricy, I will also add to it to in the hopes that I will have power or historical significance...I mean really !!!! dude had his freedom and ultimatly his life taken away from him ( i dont think anyone in there right mind would go that far for a lie) so it must be true.... or saying that those that administer and follow christianity today, are only doing it to have power or historical significance ...this cant be true because according to world standards.......to live a christian life like the pope or priest means making (alot) of sacrifices and living a hard life of humility and poverty (pesronal poverty they dont own things like other people do) and anyone with common sence knows to live this way isnt a descion taken lightly...because people love these things (e.g sex and materialism ect...) and nobody wants to give that up to be a preist or pope ... "no matter how much power" or historical significance is on offer ....... and you know thats true !!!! ..... anyway I garentee that when faced with the choice between losing your life or historical significance 99.9% of people would choose to retain there life...dying isnt easy no matter what historical significance you might stand to gain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Face of the Golden Falcon
his jewish name is YeshuaQuote:
Originally Posted by Face of the Golden Falcon
what would he have to gain by saying JESUS existed he was a historian... he wasnt a follower who as you claim would be motivated to talk about JESUS to gain some sort of historical significance or power...he was historian there was no selfish motive that could apply to him claiming jesus existed because there was no glory to be gained by doing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Face of the Golden Falcon
let me guess the church some how oredered that his writtings be tampered with to add JESUS so they cant say see its true.... i mean honestly you just dont wanna except the fact he existed... but he did and josephus`s writtings are the third party proof.Quote:
Originally Posted by Face of the Golden Falcon
all paul did was tell people to imitate him...when following christ... he was saying if you want to follow christ and put into practise what he said then imitate me....he wasnt saying how good he was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Face of the Golden Falcon
what about things that cant be explained, with in the boundries of human reasoning or knowledge... they where things done in faith!..but if you dont believe in miricals or the supernatural then i guess there is no way I can reach you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Face of the Golden Falcon
christianity isnt forced on people at the end of a sword... the church has no political power.."and the only power they have" comes from free will.... the will of the people, because they believe in christianity and have made the choice by there own free will.... to listen to what they the church say......thats the only power they have, and it was given to them by the people...because like i said they believe in christianity.... it was not forced power... wich was imposed on the people like what dictators do..it was given to the chruch when people decided hey I want to follow christianityQuote:
Originally Posted by Face of the Golden Falcon
what was added????Quote:
Originally Posted by Face of the Golden Falcon
paul wasnt a mediator between JESUS and man, like i said before all paul was saying was.... if you want to follow christ take me and my trials as an example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Face of the Golden Falcon
really how can you say paul was trying to gain somthing from confessing christ.... he was imprisoned and died for his belief (thats really a great life)...its not like he was made a king or ruler ....its not like he was, kicking back living in a palace, sipping wine, with hundreds of beautiful women at his disposal, and servents to command left right and center ...he was a social outcast..who was humiliated...I mean you really, would have had to lost the plot, to think that by doing and going through the things ...paul did..you would gain some sort of power or good life....it was nothing but struggle.
yes true law is upheld by love and thats what christ taught " love thy neighbour" "do for others, what you want them to do for you" "if sombody slaps you turn the other cheek" these laws where given in love... and are at there fundamentals.... loving teachings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Face of the Golden Falcon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Face of the Golden Falcon
there are consequences for actions.... GOD gave these laws because he said one day mankind will be judged "its up to you if you follow them or not" they are not forced on you.... GOD is perfect... he doesnt force his will on you like a dictator, he gives you the choice...they are not forced on people in the spirit of fear...people have choice..but the warning is, that one day you will have to account for your actions and either be punished or rewareded ....but like I said you have the option to follow or not...theres no fear in it...people are free to live as they wish... but there are consequences...so dont get fear mixed up with consequence because they arent the same...unlike islam that says if you dont follow I will chop your head off....now thats fear!.....
also the world is messed up because alot of people dont follow those laws... but thats why GOD gave free will its up to you in the end to make the right decision..like masta killah says "death only one can save himself from"
faith is things hoped for that are unseen and or are impossible to the human mind ....like i said what about things that are unexplainable through human reasoning....only faith and belief in GOD can explain those things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Face of the Golden Falcon
peace
peace zooraka, you raised some good points
all these people that say constantine and others manipulated the bible and whatever...and created a 'Jesus conspiracy"...for what? what benefit did it do really do? You assume Constantine added and took things away from the bible...why do you assume the worst? he never said anything like "worship your emporer" or anything like that...the teachings of Christ and the new testament are pure...something all humans should strive to follow...there is no evil or barbarism in it, unlike some other 'holy books'.
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Originally Posted by sarr
TRUTH and FACT....
all constantine did was preside over the council of nicean....where two competing doctrines of faith where vying for adoption by the church ... but these doctrines where drafted by christian theologians and scholors... NOT CONSTANTINE ..... all constantine did was just hosted the meeting he had absouloutly nothing to do with what was written... so this claim that constantine somehow changed christianity is B.S... dude just hosted a meeting!
peace sarr
peace
"you don't ask these questions because you want to learn anything, you ask because you're looking for fault in the answers provided so that you can tell yourself the religion you follow is better. I could respond to your inquiries but that would be a pointless waste of time"
I completely aggree. This thread is for the sake of arguing and usually as a rule when people try to argue with me I dont respond (if they wish to learn something about Islam I am happy to discuss though)
but I would just liek to give my 2 cents as a new muslim. I am english and both my parents are agnostic but I dont live with them. I moved away because I have a big past in my hometown and am here to get an education and make something of myself and I reverted to Islam in febuary of this year after many years of predjudice I visited morocoo, saw islam for what it really is and alhamdulila I fell in love wit the religion.
Enough about me. I have come across a gossipel called the gossipel of barnabus. This contradicts teh christian view and backs up the Islamic viewpoint and this gossipel was stolen from the vatican. As far as I understand it, the islamic belief is that Judas was crucified in Isa's US (arabic for Jesus) place. This was Allah wrath on Judas for handing Isa US to the authority's. Isa was not the son of God but a very holy prophet, and a great man and his folowers are to be respected to by muslims. The world is unfortunately heavily influenced by the media (me included until recently when I stopped buying newspapers) so what you understand about islam is heavily misguided. FOr instance, do you know 7 muslims died at the hands of al q'eda yesterday? Everyone thinks muslim = terrorist so tell me if we're all terrorist then why are th suicide bombers targetting muslims? I'll be happy to answer any questions and I respect all religions as requested by Allah in the holy Qu'ran but anyone acts hostile towards me Ill just ignore you because a conversation like this can only happen if people have good intentions and not ignorantly putting my religion down as if this is some sort of football match and your on the opposing team. We're all human beings remeber, we're all on the same team. Peace!
and prof zooruka what exactly makes you qualified to interpret the qu'ran? The qu'ran teaches us to defend our religion, and these sorts of surah's are specific to war, christians and Jews have dhimmi status in Islam which means PROTECTED as long as they pay a tax for not being muslim they are free to walk muslim lands freely (unlike in christian lands where teh muslims would be slayed on teh spot, and taxes were much higher than that of islamic countries so dhimmi's actually paid LESS tax)
you cant just quote one verse from teh qu'ran because the qu'ran has to be taken in its entirety. I am muslim, I have read the qu'ran, I am satisified taht it doesn't teach me to go out and slaughetr innocent people so its a bit of a joke to hear someone who clearly knows nothing about Islam tell everyone what a surah means. If it really did teach us to kill, the world would have nearly 2billion suicide bombers, we could wipe out teh whole population of the planet with that many people
dawood, would relligion were you previously? what ethnicity are you if you dont mind me asking
I was roman catholic before and I am completely white and both parents are natural british. My grandfather fought in WW2 and my grandmother was in the land army. My family has lived in England for many generations so Im as english as you can get and I have converted 100% because of personal choice after great thought on which choices Id like to make in life alhamdulila
Welcome to the forums dawood. Alhamdulilah to your reversion and may you find happiness.
what has been demonstrated in this thread is the inability to convey a message of hatred towards a specific religion.
people choose carefully, aspects out of context from religious texts or sayings, which will overshadow the inherently peaceful nature of a religion.
note that my last "more articulate" post was not addressed by "prof zooroka". it just proves his inability to cope with higher level information that his brain cannot understand.
interesting...so dont you think maybe, just maybe, that if God wanted you to be born Muslim, you woulda been born one?Quote:
Originally Posted by dawood
or maybe..even the Quran says Christians and Jews (good ones) will goto heaven....so if you stayed a Christian and a good one..your chances of going to heaven were 100% (according to both your birth religion and your new religion)...but now, theoritically, you've cut your chances down to 50% assuming your a good muslim..because by Christian teachings, Rejecting Jesus Christ, means you wont be allowed into heaven.
no that is the reality of islam that I have posted..... whatever is said to be so called peacefull teachings in islam, is cancled out but the verses that call for other people to be slaughtered and not to mention the way muhummad conducted himself in general " so I am basing my opinion on the general over view of islam" not just picking and choosing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Rai
the bible is not selected text for the conviniance of promoting a cetain message... the message was always there and was written in the same spirit buy the individuals who wrote them.... thats why it makes perfect sense (they where of one mind )...the bible was just organised by the church.... and makes more sense in chronological order that the koran " I mean in the koran you have one verse saying love jews...next you have a verse saying all jews will be killed by muslims on the last day, what is that !( one minute you have muhummad saying "GOD" told him to respect the jews , next you have GOD saying muslims will kill the jews...I mean has GOD lost it or what....and what is astonishing is mhummad is claiming, it is the same god who created judaism ...who now says muslims will kill his very own chosen people)... I mean honestly, muhummad makes GOD look mad...the bible`s message doesnt chop and change its views like the koran... it flows and is on song every step of the way.... all messages and proclomations are one ( and thats somthing that cant be or was organised by the church) because thats the way the text where written all writers agree on the directions of there teachings (and that direction is based on what christ said).... so the bible can most certainly be read as a collective peice...yet the koran is jibberish sayings that are all over the place and absouloutly dont flow or make cohesive sense and when read as a collective peice show what rubbish it really is and probably leave the reader more confused than when they started... wich proves muhummad was making it up as he went along.( the contridictions in the koran prove it)Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Rai
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Rai
islam means conquring the world !!!! the god of islam is not the same GOD as that of christianity or judaism ...what because muhummad said so hahahaha lmao...you know its not the same GOD because of the message...islam denies the crucifixtion wich is central to christian beleif as taught by JESUS himself.... muhummad said jews will be sluaghtered on the last day....why would the same GOD who created judaism and in the bible call them his chosen people ...now be prophesysing that on the last day muslims will slaughter and kill jews.....that proves its not the same GOD ...sorry its all B.S
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Rai
does the following sura answer your question
Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
jews and christians have to pay taxes for not being muslims... I dont see christians or jews saying anything like this today in france england or america...muslims are allowed to live freely and have the same rights as everyone else... and I dont see christ saying if muslims or jews come under your controlle make them pay something because they arent christian... islam is a supremist religion and doesnt treat everyone and or the other so called true religions of GOD equally NO....it has the motto of making them know they are inferior because they arent muslims...... that is why they should pay taxes...( i mean what bulshit is that and muhummad says they are all people of the book who should be respected) my ass ...so to say that muslims offered protection to jews and christians is not true..there are conditions......christians and jews dont put those conditions on the freedom of muslims and what if christians and jews dont pay taxes...they will probably be killed....so islam doesnt protect the other religions....they impose sanctions on them to have that freedom its not given freely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Rai
no they are following the example and teachings of muhummad...and anyway the teachings and examples are there to exploit....you cant do that with the teachings or examples of christ because they arent there!.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Rai
yes maybe bush and blair said that ... but the above picture dont come from the examples teachings of the founder of the religion unlike islam!Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Rai
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Originally Posted by Prince Rai
No im not into bashing other faiths for the sake of bashing them...i mean i dont bash judaism....why because its a religion of GOD....but I reject islam because its false and JESUS said to us " BE CAREFUL AND DONT LET ANYONE FOOL YOU MANY FALSE PROPHETS WILL ARISE AND CLAIM TO SPEAK FOR ME AND WILL FOOL MANY PEOPLE" and he also said to add to that "YOU WILL NO A FALSE PROPHET BY WHAT THEY DO" and from what I have read and heard I know what muhummad did...and I dont care how much people try to sugar coat islam as a peaceful religion its overal essence is evil and violent and false why because it contridicts everything that was taught by GOD before.
peace prince rai
peace
You're not quoting the Quran if anything starts with Bukhari, I figure I need to let you in on that since you don't actually own the Quran and have never read it. That's obvious by all your ridiculous post where you just keep repeating yourself.Quote:
why because it contridicts everything that was taught by GOD before.
Now tell me, in direct relation to your quote how this verse goes against the teaching of either the Old or New Testament:
If any do deeds of righteousness, be they male or female, and have faith they will enter Heaven and not the least injustice will be done to them.
???? Don't dance around the subject either, address this Surah directly
muhummad stole those ideas from judism and christianity....off course if someone was attempting to establish a legitiment religion they would have to say things like that....the bible says even the devil can pose as an angle of light...but you have to take the koran as a whole... and as a whole it is a false violent religion who seeks to destroy the teachings of judaism and of christianity and replace them with islam....I mean lets be realistic here going from the teachings of christ ( turn thr other cheek) to the teachings of muhummad ( do jihad a nd kill people who dont believe in GOD) is taking a infinant amount of steps backwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions Unseen
peace
exactly you didn't address what I posted at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by prof zooruka
violent false religion blah blah blah
be honest. You've never picked up the Quran and really read it have you?
Every verse you've ever posted was you copying n' pasting from a Christian site begging to be painted as the persecuted, true or untrue?
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Originally Posted by Visions Unseen
the fact that those verses are even there in the quran tells me its false even if I dont believe in religion my own common sense tells me they are wrong...you cant teach peace and violent at the same time...its not possible....christ taught nothing but peace...thats why his teaching are true...muhummad taught peace and to use violence when you dont get your own way...now tell me wich one of the to would sound like it came from GOD.
how bout you answer a direct question for once. There was atleast two in that last post of mine. Be a good Christian and have some respect for those that have extended you the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by prof zooruka
yes they are a copy and paste ....but like I said the fact that those verses are even there in the quran tells me its false even if I dont believe in religion my own common sense tells me they are wrong...you cant teach peace and violance at the same time...its not possible....christ taught nothing but peace...thats why his teaching are true...muhummad taught peace and to use violence when you dont get your own way
so just so we're clear on this because you only answered one of my questions, you don't own a Quran and have never read it, correct?Quote:
Originally Posted by prof zooruka
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Originally Posted by Visions Unseen
I have seen passages from the koran but no I have never read it !... but I dont need to... those few passage I have read tell me all I need to know.
peace
So if I read three pages out the Bible that have been posted on an Islamic web-site then its as good as reading the whole thing? correct?Quote:
Originally Posted by prof zooruka
NO you cant understand it in its entirety from redaing three passages but if you read three passages outta of the new testement you will get the jist of it... that is all about peace and love...Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions Unseen
look I dont care what anyone says like I said before the fact that those koranic verses exist prove that the religion is false...( JESUS taught us you will no a false prophet by what they do) and we know what muhummad did and taught ( thats all the proof I need) I dont have to read it all because if I did I would find nothing but contridictions...one minute muhummad says peace next he says violance... I mean just hearing muhummads idea of heaven turns me off ( virgins and what not) like its one big orgy... ( you got to be kidding me)... so know I dont care to read the jibberish that is the koran because anything peaceful or loving is immediatly cancelled out but shit that is just absured.
peace
You talk out of the mouth of inexperience and speak of what you DO NOT KNOW. You believe in perpetuated falsehoods when it comes to the Islamic faith. Just as one can not know the Bible from a few pages, one can not know the Quran from a few verses.Quote:
Originally Posted by prof zooruka
Judge not lest you be judged yourself. You can say it all you want but the Christian thing is to LIVE it. In this uneducated assumptions you make spewing the propaganda that SOMEONE ELSE told you, you in effect judge an entire religion and all 2 billion members of its church. That's judgement on a blasphemous level.
Tell me which verse in the Bible Muhammed stole this bit of knowledge from
Surah 3, verse 7,
He it is Who has sent down to Thee the Book, in it are verses Basic or fundamental ( of established meaning) They are the foundation of the Book: others are not of well-established meaning but those in whose hearts is perversity follw the part thereof that is not of well-established meaning. Seeking discord and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows Its true meanings except Allah and those who are firmly grounded. In knowledge say " WE believe in the Book, the whole of it from our Lord and none will grasp the Message except Men of Understanding.
Im sorry but you can...if those verses are clear in there meaning and intent...i mean all it takes is abit of common sense ..even if you dont believe in religion...common sense will tell you if what you are reading and hearing is good or bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions Unseen
JESUS said MY sheep hear my voice....they no me and I know them so when they hear another persons voice they will flee from that person because they dont know his voice....so in saying that JESUS knows people will have to judge what is truth and what is falsehood...because he said that his sheep when they hear another persons voice will flee from that person....and for that to happen..it takes judgement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions Unseen
when JESUS talks about dont judge he means dont judge on looks or on material things ect... not what is truth and what is falsehood.
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Originally Posted by Visions Unseen
yeah muhummad is probably talking about islam when he says the book...but if he means all three religions then that is cancelled out by this message.
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Originally Posted by muhummad
just read the religion of truth part it is singular not plural (he is not including christianity or judaism in this) he is saying and all other belief are false because he is declaring islam is the only religion of truth....
peace
Lets look at the facts here. You're trying to tell me how I should interpret the Quran when you've ONLY READ THE VERSES THAT HAVE BEEN SPOON-FED TO YOU to paint a picture they want you to see (one that causes you to be filled with hate and to see hatred at the same time). I'm currently reading the Quran and have gotten through the first 670 pages. So who's more fit to tell who what the meaning is? You're trying to tell me what it says???? :lmao: Why would you be fit to explain its meaning to me? You don't understand the muslim perspective of these words and hence you are misled and full of misunderstanding.Quote:
Originally Posted by prof zooruka
Mathew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of My Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother and sister and mother.
Do you know what the definition of the word Islam is?
man...sometimes, i dont need to see an entire movie to know its not what i like. Sometimes i can watch the first 10 minutes, and know im not gona enjoy it. Sometimes i can tell by the director, and the leading actors im not gona like this.
Kinda the same with the Quran...so im like Prof here. I know who Mohammed was through the history he left, ive read parts of the qiran...not impressed. dont wana waste countless days reading it, when i know what its about. Just cause it has elements of good to it, doesnt mean i should sit through the negativity also
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Originally Posted by Visions Unseen
yes you might of read or be reading the koran more than me... but that doesnt mean I cant make my own judgements for what Ive read... you still dont want to exceot the facts that those evil verses are there...THEY ARE THERE... there is nothing you can do or say to change that... no matter how many so called good verses you post.
to submit to allah...but who is allah... it isnt not the GOD of the bible the GOD that JESUS christ taught...we no that because the teachings of allah and mhummad contradict that of JESUS and the old testement...I mean just because muhummad said that his allah is the same god as the GOD of the bible doesnt make it so...you have to look at the teachings and the teachings like i said contradict those of JESUS and the bible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions Unseen
and as for what JESUS said in Mathew 12:50...he is talking about his own teachings not the teachings of the koran.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions Unseen
peace
peace sarrQuote:
Originally Posted by sarr
see Jesus talks about God and you think he's talking about himself. How many years has that been going on for? He clearly states he is talking about THE FATHER not the son and yet you hear Jesus anyway. There is but One God, not three. There was a reason Jesus prayed when he was on earth. Do you think God prays to anyone?Quote:
Originally Posted by prof zooruka
Dont you understand? Juesus was God in the physical form, a being shown to us, so we as humans can learn how to pray, how to live, how to act and how to treat eachother. Why couldnt this be possible if Gods power is infinite?
I don't have a particular problem with Islam anymore then I do with other religions.
However, I will say this: There are numerous honour killings in countries with predominately muslim faith. The overall treatment of women in many of these countries is inhumane, not just socially but by law.
Despite the fact that the majority of (moderate) muslims do not carry these acts out does it not suggest something about the nature of the religion that these atrocities are so widespread?
Or is it more a reflection of the human condition?
like i said...there was a Turkish family here in Australia. The daughter told the family she converted to Christianity...the father (a Doctor - an educated man) reacted how? by pulling out a knife and trying to kill her...accidently killing the mother instead.
Does it not say a little something?
Where every Christian family i know who has lost a daughter to Islam, doesnt act this way.