Western Europe? these are Eastern European Orthodox Christian Slavs who invented ethnic cleansing, not Western Europeans who sip wine and visit art museums. We all know Eastern Europe is built differentlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Dooch
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Western Europe? these are Eastern European Orthodox Christian Slavs who invented ethnic cleansing, not Western Europeans who sip wine and visit art museums. We all know Eastern Europe is built differentlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Dooch
Same. U.S. presidents are bunker boys. I don't see this administration getting involved after leaving Afghanistan. Trump and some of these far-right groups are praising Russia, so we might join them after the next election.Quote:
Originally Posted by zooruka
You mad bro?Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenchild
Rachel Maddow? Is that you?Quote:
Originally Posted by b-dolo
I agree with you on Zelensky. he's been unexpectedly badassQuote:
Originally Posted by zooruka
looks like the EU as a whole is now pushing for Russian banks to be kicked off the SWIFT banking transfer system after all. US and Canada are in favor of it too so it's gonna happen. blocking of the Russian Central Bank's credits/assets is in the works too
in terms of finances this is the most severe option there is, it's like the nukes in warfare. that is, apart from saying no to Russian gas and oil, which is hardly feasibly in terms of current energy use in the EU (but let's see in a few years)
pretty amazing to see all of the EU rally around this. looks like Putin is eliciting more fear than even he feels is productive this time around
of course once again this will hurt the EU's finances too. the cost of living is gonna go through the roof
Putin is sitting on several hundred of billions of dollars to cushion the first impact of the SWIFT blow. He's gonna have to resort to this type of stuff after a while to keep his war economy afloat :
try and expand the alternative he set up for SWIFT a few years back. right now only 20 non Russian banks are in it lol
do business through Belarus to work around the SWIFT system that'll work until Belarus gets the same treatment as Russia. he might find some other allies (Kazakhstan?)
do business with China even more than now
of course Putin is still faaaar away from having to resort to Assad tactics (drug funded state etc etc) or North Korean strategies (smuggling economy and slave labor economy)
Correcting your geographyQuote:
Originally Posted by Dooch
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal Incandenza
This will do nothing and they'll stop when the news isn't news anymore. This is really some 'we're not friends with you anymore' type of shit. You can't gain an entire country, then be made that someone started what basically amounts to your paypal account for banks (that they'll reopen eventually). It's still a net gain. It's also an autocracy of people that are used to being poor or having shitty institutions so 'we're going to make your finances inconvenient' does nothing. I'm sure everyone already know this.
SWIFT is one of many options for transactions, so I don't get this and I don't see how they won't just develop their own or use whatever the chinese are using. This is literally a bank-Facebook ban.
Very perceptive. Proud of ya.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenchild
Sign up zooruka! Let’s see all these Twitter soldiers put their money where their mouth is.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaDynasty
Putin pulling out the nukes. threatening Ukraine into submission with the implicot threat of use of small tactical nukes in Ukraine
large nukes being pulled out to scare off the world since a big part of Russia's army is now in Ukraine and Belarus, which leaves Russia itself 'vulnerable' to the outside world.
looks like Putin isn't too happy with being kicked out off SWIFT and the invasion slower than expected progress
peace talks at the Belarus-Ukraine border, on Ukraine territory are now scheduled
Scary stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal Incandenza
They've absolutely fucked Russia's economy. Europe closes it's airspace but so does Russia in return. Russia is set to play Poland in a World cup qualifying playoff game but Poland have refused to play them. Fifa being Fifa have said the game will be played in a neutral venue, no Russian flags or national anthem which is bollocks. Either ban them or not. I don't agree with banning the nations flag and then expecting the Russian team to take the pitch. This is more like Fifa don't have the balls to ban Russia outright so expect the Russian team to not turn up themselves. If they do and Poland don't show then Russia will end up in the World cup through forfeit which would be funny.
As for the war itself, I still don't think the Russians are going fall force but this conflict has shown that their airforce isn't up to the standards of NATO's top airforces as they can't take control of the skies against similar aircraft. Ukrainians are letting Russian tanks roll forward and focusing on the supply convoys behind. Meaning the Russian tanks are running out of fuel or are separated on the battlefield making them easier targets for anti-tank missiles.
All the talk about NATO being the ones goading Russia. Well this action will end up with both Finland and Sweden joining NATO. Nobody talks about Russia's meddling in the balkans, the latest case being Bosnia where there's a legit political crisis which has been instigated by Moscow.
I think FIFA and UEFA have both banned Russia now?Quote:
Originally Posted by HANZO
Quote:
Originally Posted by HANZO
I agree……I was talking with my dad and he said so far the war has been a disaster for Russia because in like 5 or 6 days they haven’t taken a major city? I expected Russia to be stronger?
Putin might come out of this looking really weak, besides also looking like a bald midget/faggot with a Hitler complex.
Why are people so mad at Putin other than CNN being a state department device? I don't get how anyone 'picks a side' in these things. It's like two people beating each other up on Worldstar. I get that Putin did the 'invading', but it's not like Ukraine has a 'use'
True.Quote:
Originally Posted by zooruka
TSA, as for picking sides, what should be maybe emphasized is exactly how Putin has been destabilizing Europe for years now, with his cunning natural resources policy (the EU is to blame for wanting to have it easy), his push for Brexit through third parties, his funding of extremist parties, both far left and far right, in many EU countries, his funding of independence movements in various countries etc. So exactly the kind of thing HANZO is refering to in the case of Bosnia, a nation which is dangerously close to exploding (various religious and ethnic groups are supposed to rule the country together but the whole thing is like 6 months to a year away from a new war)
maybe (probably) the CIA is doing that type of stuff too abroad, but to a much lesser extent to its NATO allies, such as most EU member states
Europeans are 'in it together' against Russia at this point (it wasn't like that last week - but it should have been so), we as Europeans do not have the luxury of apathy / not picking sides. it's plain and simple : it's Ukraine today, it was Belarus yesterday and it was Georgia the day before that, so to speak. Tomorrow (in 5 to 10 years' time) it'll be Poland or Finland or the Baltic states. Where does that leave all of the EU? FUCKED.
The US do not have a global enemy that is on their doorstep (Alaska doesn't factor in to the equation so Russia is not that boogey man). Europe does, its threatening neighbor is Russia
For far too long the EU has been naive in deploying soft diplomacy, trusting in mutually beneficent trade with Russia. All that has happened is giving Putin a 500+ billion dollar saving deposit to go to war. He has enough money now to keep Russian companies and the war machinery afloat for one to two years, even if he is cut off completely from world trade and savings stored in banks outside of Russia.
If Europeans 'don't pick sides' we will be Russia's butt budy in ten years' time.
What the EU is doing now should have probably happened in 2004 (Maidan) or 2008 already
Ukraine's "use" geopolitically these days - as an abstract country without inhabitants so to speak - is being a buffer nation between the EU (NATO) and Russia. A geopolitical's no man's land, that assures both the EU and Russia they are 'safe' from each other. Whether Ukraine applied for NATO or EU membership in the past is neither here nor there because membership was never going to be granted (same thing with Finland as a possible NATO member) because these countries are direct neighbors to RussiaQuote:
Originally Posted by TSA
However now that Putin suddenly 'feels' like Ukraine has become a westward oriented nation, the scales are NOT tipping in his favor. there will be more push in Sweden, Finland an Ukraine to become EU and or NATO members (depending on the country)
Putin would have been better off leaving things as they were or only invading the Donbas region and either consolidating the Russian minded rebel republics on Ukrainian territory or expanding those two small republics to the point where they consisted of the WHOLE Donbas region instead of just a third of it (like it was last week)
Putin could have pulled another Crimea type invasion and maybe have gotten away with this (= the take over of the Donbas region), but now he is clearly aiming for a full on regime change for all of Ukraine - and EU and NATO really have no choice but to react, although that does not include sending NATO troops into Ukraine
I'm surprised Russia hasn't won yet. Even broke North Korea could've won by now
btw the invasion isn't going too well because Putin wanted to take Ukraine and still have it as a fully functional state (under his control) because of the 'brotherly' ties between both nationd (Russia and Ukraine, along with some other parts, used to be one state in medieval times, with Kiev being culturally extremely important to Russians)
while there are bombings, tanks etc, it's still fighting with the gloves on, on the Russian side
as far as I am aware there have been no full scale fights AT NIGHT (apart from some bombings) as in tank fights etc and also there definitely have not been large scale bombings like the ones that leveled cities in Syria (e.g. 2016) and the city of Grozny, which was essentially turned into a fully functional BBQ set in the Tchetchen (spelling?) war
the Russians could deploy far more bombs and troops in Ukraine than they have done so far. also the Belarus army hasn't joined in yet. Which is still might since Lukaschenko is no longer the shot caller in Belarus - that's been Putin for a few months now
Putin was under the illusion that while the Ukrainian army would put up a short fight, it would feel demoralized soon. Which it didn't. Also Putin didn't expect regular citizens to join in on the fights en masse. Which the people are doing. Surrounding tanks on foot, throwing molotov cocktails, making camouflage nets, filling sandbags, pimutting up check points. hell Zelensky handed out 18,000 machine guns to civilians this week and they are all being used
meanwhile Putin was selling his own soldiers the old line of "you are going to free your brothers from a nefarious regime, you will be welcomed with arms wide open by the long suffering population". now how do these Rusdian soldiers feel on the battlefield? psychologically the reality is a blow to them. Outside of the Donbas region every Ukrainian wants to tear Russians' eyes out with both hands
sorry for my novel length posts in this thread lol. I'll try and reign it in a little going forward
The most entertaining part of this has been watching people react toward “Russians”. It’s like the common enemy everyone can unite and gang up on after two years of fuckery.Quote:
Originally Posted by TSA
It’s like the Unification of “Cancel culture”. Fascinating stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal Incandenza
Europe will remain under the hegemonic influence of the US through NATO. Is that what you prefer?
Or would you prefer opening up Russia natural resources to Europe via nordstream 2 and other trade.
I’m asking because I have no idea what Europeans think. And because I’m not so sure US influence is all that much better for you than Putin.
The US govt.’s track record is the worst of anyone.
Their not doing it because “democracy”. They’re not willing to send American troops to die. They’re, like tsa said, watching world star, not caring who wins, knowing it all benefits them.
Putin need to take that big fat L and off himself already. The pandemic must have made him feel really isolated and desperate.
Nah the history of Russia is fucked. They've been petty dickheads forever. And as if americans don't think they haven't been apart of that equation this whole time.
Is that why you came back to Gen chat, babes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackula Spectacula
Forgot about this one for a second. Bosnia was on the eve of a new civil war. Which would mean a whole lot of bloodshed, as the wounds of the 90's have not been healed. Hell, the Dutch are still coping with their role in the massacre at the Dutchbat enclave.Quote:
Originally Posted by HANZO
The funniest part about all this to me is that Robby and that lame that nobody knew existed until his post-election meltdown have been radicalised by Russian misinformation terrorists and suck the dick of a Russian puppet lol staunchy 'Merican people who are angry their election was "rigged" so that the Russian puppet didn't get in to office again.
Another thing is that it's shown the world gives zero fucks about what goes on in Africa and the Middle East lol war and terrorism defines these regions and the world moves on without a care in the world but even the threat of the Russians marching in to "undisputed" Ukraine had the whole world preparing to throw the sanctions down.
It’s always funny how Dooch plays the “Merica don’t care about no god damn eurofags” but has 24/7 opinions about it lol most Americans couldn’t find Canada on a map either but they’ll sure as fuck care about what’s going on the U-K-R-ai N when petrol shoots up to $10 gallon.
“Merica are watching world star not caring who cares” they’ve just sent delegates to Taiwan because they’re worried about China lol of course the Americans care about what’s happening here, top officials are worried about China further expanding in to the South China Sea while the world is distracted and on super high alert to see how China will react and what they’ll do with Taiwan. The Americans have been pressing with sanctions while pussies like Germany tried to half arse, how do you guys even figure the American government don’t care who wins they like the rest of the EU aren’t trying to have Cuban missile crisis 2.0 in a Russian controlled Ukraine and puppet state Belarus of which the latter is happening.
“What’s the use of Ukraine?” It’s a buffer between West and Russia and is strategically extremely important plus they have their natural gas and oil that Vladimir would love to hold Europe by the balls again with.
Apparently Turkish drone are shitting all over the Russians, Erdogan must feel like a kid on Christmas (or the Islamic equivalent to this saying) knowing he can fuck with Russia and the world won’t care too much.
Considering how desolate this forum is most of the time, no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dooch
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Originally Posted by Hal Incandenza
Alright, this makes sense especially since you're actually a European living in Europe. Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal Incandenza
It's pretty obvious NATO provoked the situation to me. If the Ukraine is a buffer state then why would you try to get it to join your openly anti-russian military alliance? I think most ppl that are actually looking can see that unless they have a direct vested interest in one side or the other. If Mexico joined what ever incompetent Russia military union they have we would melt the president of Mexico. I just see it as two sides trying to win and think people depend on 'the news' for their worldview to a dangerous degree because 'the news' is brazenly state propaganda and bias at best. Imagine getting news about the Bloods from Crip International, then yaking about saving innocent Crips for what will probably be months online.
There are a lot of attempts to make Ukraine/Ukrainians seem 'endearing' right now and it's really off putting because it's a useless country. Imagine existing so that 'people who matter have to kill you first before they kill each other'. Then actually being cool with that lol. I also don't like how they keep begging right now. Morale has to be in the trash can for any Ukrainian military person w/ internet. I also don't think 'buffer states' work because we're no longer in the age of Armies that walk, and we're barely in the age of armies that drive. If Russia wanted to hit Berlin they could do it in 17 seconds.
But NATO as a whole DIDN'T try and recruit Ukraine. For NATO, stability in the region is more important - which only works in the way of a status quo of EU + buffer states + Russia. NATO knows Russia goes ballistic when NATO is directly at its borders.
There is a difference between Ukraine wanting to join NATO (which Zelensky has been in favor of increasingly over the last few years) and NATO actually being open to Ukraine becoming a member state (which NATO wasn't in favor of because of Russian sensibilities)
Problems arose IN THE PAST when George Bush Jr was pushing for Ukraine (and Georgia) to become a NATO member(s) when all of the bigger EU member states who are in NATO were totally opposed to that
if shit hits the fan between EU/NATO and Russia it's not that urgent of a problem for the US which is leagues away from a possible war zone. btw if Putin sends missiles/nukes they fly to Brussels, not Washington, NY or Mobile, Alabama
leaders of countries like France and Germany were having a full on heart attack when Bush Jr made the push for Ukraine's NATO membership. they knew it would spell trouble
Bush saw an opportunity to close in on Russia geographically (which is dumb), EU states saw possible disaster in the same scenario instead
anyway, the difference in perspective between EU and Bush within NATO led to the deadly official 'compromise statement' by the NATO "One day Ukraine wille become a NATO member state"
The EU was hoping "one day" = "never"
Bush was hoping "will become a member" = "is practically already a member just by making this statement"
Putin was thinking the same thing as Bush felt about that statement, only it angered it him tremendously. Putin has never forgotten this while all of NATO just moved on after Bush and never seriously considered making Ukraine a member state
It was a very unfortunate public 'compromise statement' to make in the way it affected Putin
like I keep on saying, it's not about what Ukraine itself wanted, it's what organisations like NATO and EU were open to
also, some here seem to think NATO = US. From your point of view it might be. But it isn't. NATO = US + other nations. If US only thought of home advantage for the US, like Bush did about trying to open up NATO membership to Ukraine, that's precisely one of those moments where most of the other NATO members states were about to get fucked
as to the 'We Americans don't care'. Well that's okay, you don't you don't care. Mind if we do care? Half of the EU was a Russian colony up until thirty years agolol Friends I had in other countries had to take Russian in school as a compulsory course. Except for the commie weirdos they hated that shit. Imagine all in the US having to learn to speak Japanese or German and be taught German or Japanese culture trumps your own culture? Sort of like 'The Man in the High Castle' Amazon show and Philip K. Dick novel. Well that was a reality for half of Europe
A lot of Europeans lived this shit, yall were more or less carefree except for the nuke threat EVERYBODY was dealing with. Ask the Polish just how much they miss the good old Russian times. Ask the Germans, the Czech etc etc.
Nobody is trying to make the Ukraine 'endearing'. Just like Ukraine was a safe buffer state for Russia when it wasn't angling for NATO membership (not the same as NATO being open to membership in recent years because it wasn't), Ukraine was also a safe buffer state for the EU before Russians invaded it
obviously any one country can get hit by missiles from the other part of the world in 17 seconds. it's about the psychology of safe distance on the ground between power blocks. In terms of missiles there is no actual safe distance. In terms of people and nations feeling safe there is
What feels better? A shitty neighbor living 3 houses down the block or the same guy moving in right next door and doing his annoying shit right there? you're bound to go through more fuckery that way
the real issue here is that Ukraine might as well be Buthan to the Americans : it's a far away shithole you don't need to care about. that's cool. But for us as EU it's practically next door
US have got no problems that size with their own neighbors : they have Canada for jokes and trucker news and Mexico for drugs and cheap labor. We got some crazy fucker closing in on dementia, with one finger on the red button when he feels threatened, invading the countries that surround him because 'we are all brothers, one same people after all'
And about Zelensky angling for help now. So what? He was offered a ride out of the country as it was going down the drain but he's staying. He's no Mr Clean (corruption ahem) but he's no Afghan figure head fleeing the country with gold bars stacked up high either when the regime collapses
the guy is pushing the same agenda now as before the invasion : HE wants his country to become EU and NATO member. He's not changing his tune. Only he could REALLY do with those membership cards right now because of the invasion. It was NATO (except for Bush Jr back when) and EU who were stalling all along for membership openings.
@ Dooch : no, we don't want to be 'ruled' by the US government. But if given a choice between power blocks we'll go for the US even though obviously there are some problems there - hell there are problems anywhere. but trust me you'd feel the difference in your day to day life if Putin (or Xi) was in charge of the US
like I said it's FINE if you guys don't care. you are obviously welcome to any point of view. but to some of us the threat is close so we do care. IDK how many more ways I can explain how Russia sabotages the EU already, from secret funding over hackings to fake news, we don't need the fucker knocking on the front door additionally
maybe Americans should have a hot Finnish piece of ass on the side right now and ask her how she feels about Putin when you have a smoke after mind blowing sex
tbh I have done all the explaining I can do on this, you guys see it differently that's completely cool with me but I'll focus on new developments instead of re-explaing myself and my views
You’re confusing the Us government with US citizens.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hound
And you’re posting angry again. Get it together.
Imagine being from Nigeria and talking about another country as useless lol
“we are barely in the age of armies that drive” there’s literally satellite images of Russian convoys that stretch 50 miles
”morale must be low in the Ukraine for anyone with internet” lol people world wide are idolising their ‘man of the year’ president as a hero, the guy will be Time magazines person of the year, Ukrainian morale is through the roof for now and it’s why they haven’t been stomped on.
sometimes I feel like this place is inhabited by bots because you can’t have this many opinions so wide of the mark on a regular basis
Turkey is hugely dependent on Russian gas & tourists. Russia is also building Turkey's first nuclear plant and ofcourse Turkey buys Russian missile defence systems. There's that and then theres the fact that in battlefields like Syria, Libya, Azerbaijan-Armenia, Turkey and Russia have been on opposing sides.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hound
As for the drones the ones Turkey sells around the world are made by Erdogan's son in law, but credit where credit's due the drones are very effective. They are cheap and expendable but can fly long and can carry a heavy payload, they've already made work of Russian equipment in Syria, Libya, Armenia so it's not a surprise that they can cause serious damage to the Russian army itself. If they get shot down it's not a big deal as they cost like $3mn a pop unlike US reaper drones which are close to $30mn.
After the Azerbaijan-Armenia scuffle the Armenians lobbied companies who made parts for the drone and they stopped selling engines, cameras etc etc. So the drone maker made a deal with Ukraine where they provide the engines for these drones. The US senate wanted to investigate these drones to just a few months back, one of the reasons was they were provided to Ukraine. The senate wanted to possibly sanction these drones because Turkey sold them to Ukraine.
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Originally Posted by The Hound
Well I'm from America and you're from Australia if we're pulling rank lol.
TIME MAGAZINE? DAMN! ITS ON
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Originally Posted by Hal Incandenza
alright, good points. You're right
You guys have a lot of time on your hands.
You're right too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackula Spectacula
Love you guys. Hope my Euro homies stay safe.