shunning and rejecting luxury and desire

this discussion still leaves a lot of issues out

if we are gonna talk about something sustainable
it has to be acknowledged that everything we have built in the past requires more and more resources for maintenance

cities are literally falling apart

also
i dont think its wise to underestimate the situation we are in regarding the environment

gentle reforms cant stop anything at this point

there is a lot of reason to suggest we are past the point of no return

all production on this planet needs to collectively stop
and if we dont choose to do it
it will be done for us

it seem to be the only way


this planet is exhausted

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LHX

what is your insight on the difference between desire and need?

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the difference between desaire and need is the difference between treading life or subcuming to tides that pull you awy from your lifestyle.

desire is that which i would like to a close want but don't need.
need is that which is necessary more than a desire.

i need food but desire flavor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LHX

this discussion still leaves a lot of issues out

if we are gonna talk about something sustainable
it has to be acknowledged that everything we have built in the past requires more and more resources for maintenance

cities are literally falling apart

also
i dont think its wise to underestimate the situation we are in regarding the environment

gentle reforms cant stop anything at this point

there is a lot of reason to suggest we are past the point of no return

all production on this planet needs to collectively stop
and if we dont choose to do it
it will be done for us

it seem to be the only way


this planet is exhausted

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there is no evidence for this. for millenia people thought they are living at the dawn of an apocalypse. so what happend?

and how are the cities literally flling apart? Literally? the sidewalks don't crumble, the buildings are not collapsing. I guess they are not falling apart literally. so how are they falling apart?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Legato

well thats because most of the reasoning behind their apocolyptic visions were just tales and story.
nowadays you have facts showing the planet is in a filthy state.
the questions really should be not if there is going to be an apocalypse but what it truly is. nuhmean.

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I was refering to the apocalypse as a sociological phenomenon that takes many forms, like the Y2K scare for example. At least I am inferring that some people here sense an impending doom because they want to start revolutions. things are not all lolipops and sunshine, but they are not hopeless. you can make changes within the system.

Any of you empty headed rhym-tards ever hear of Lennin (not John), or a really old guy named Adam Smith?

Lennin - I've got about twenty volumes of his - volume one talks about the uneven distribution of wealth (ever present in the revolutionary equasion). I'll stay right there for now because you need a quasi-educated (and less apathetic) populous to augment the catalyst (crazy guy named deTocqueville wrote about the wonderful American revolution).

As for Smith - I think you might have a tendancy to be too comunist (when feeling good about giving cost too much we stop giving). Throw in deTocquev'l again, mixed with Smith's division of labor, and Toquee's "new aristocracy," and you have what's going on around you.

What's that you ask? Well, US automakers formerly based in Detroit, have generations of highly specialized labor (why do anything else when mom's and pop's have been doing the same damn thing since they was 3?). Well, India and China make the goods for half the price - ergo a bunch of broke a-m.f'r's whining about "American jobs" (funny how their loyalty to US car's has left them with their pants down and a soar back side).

En Fin, you want a revolution? Crack a f'n book, cause the brains that got you pimp'n yourself at Macky-D's have read a whole hell of a lot more than you have.

In Re fear: until you get popp'd in the nogin with a nail gun, run over by a buss, fall off an edifice, or manage to finish breathing by whatever method - there is no end (Imagine it all you want but you, and nobody else, can tell you where it will end).

In the off chance you die today - it's the end of the world. You think "global warming" can be mapped when we know that there will be another Ice age (geological time is a lot longer than even five hundred years of data). Wanna talk about the rest of polution issues? You think that evolution stopped with homo sapien? I think not.

In the end, lets say that you do see the end of the world - you still die alone. Who cares about any apocolypse? I've got a mortgage to pay, mouths to feed, books to read, and a whole lot more important things to do than worry about some stupid end of the world.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by denaturat

there is no evidence for this. for millenia people thought they are living at the dawn of an apocalypse. so what happend?

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do you know how short a millenium is on the scale of eternity?

some people say apocalypse already happened

any insights on that?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by denaturat

and how are the cities literally flling apart? Literally? the sidewalks don't crumble, the buildings are not collapsing. I guess they are not falling apart literally. so how are they falling apart?

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lmao

how can we live in that same city and you say that?

doesnt it strike you as odd the way steeles keeps on looking like a meteor hit it?

and finch last summer when they had to shut the motherfucker down?


they are falling apart literally

You see this everywhere. In the ghetto all the children are wearing the newest jordans, carmelo's or hip sneakers out and their parents are welfare recipients. For those of you who haven't travelled outside of the USA, you would not believe how people live. I've been to Jamaica, island hopping i.e. st.croix, Mexico and these people are living in the equivalence of the shed in your back yard. Aluminum siding. ITS UN REAL. and they are satisfied just to have that much. Its truly amazing. you never realize how truly blessed you are until to see people without the same means you are provided.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by denaturat

when i question your posts it is not for the purpose of attacking you personally put for the purpose of testing your ideas to see if they withstand objections. that is a basic dialectic method of ancient greeks such as socrates and is just as useful today. in the process you learn, even where you disagree with someone.

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just for the record, i make a point of not taking offence in discussions like these so you don't have to worry about that

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JulioCortazar

En Fin, you want a revolution? Crack a f'n book, cause the brains that got you pimp'n yourself at Macky-D's have read a whole hell of a lot more than you have.

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you don't need to be educated or read to know things and have ideas. why do you need to read about other people's ideas? why don't you just accept your own?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ilzPotent

You see this everywhere. In the ghetto all the children are wearing the newest jordans, carmelo's or hip sneakers out and their parents are welfare recipients. For those of you who haven't travelled outside of the USA, you would not believe how people live. I've been to Jamaica, island hopping i.e. st.croix, Mexico and these people are living in the equivalence of the shed in your back yard. Aluminum siding. ITS UN REAL. and they are satisfied just to have that much. Its truly amazing. you never realize how truly blessed you are until to see people without the same means you are provided.

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and the funny part is they grow up to be healthier and stronger than kids in the US

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LHX

and the funny part is they grow up to be healthier and stronger than kids in the US

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is there any wonder when they don't eat all the shit the kids in the US do?

"you don't need to be educated or read to know things and have ideas. why do you need to read about other people's ideas? why don't you just accept your own?"

Human beings have been around for thousands of years - and have been writing since Roman times. Are you so stupid that you think that there are any truly original ideas? You may have "thought" about it - but there are at least twenty people five times as famous and a million times smarter that have already thought of your "original idea." Come on! put down the crack pipe! The difference between your pitiful ideas and the ones that you find in books - people are willing to pay for their shit, and you just sit at home and jack off to your own. PLEASE!

you want to start playing chess?! don't think you have an "original" opening. You have a new idea? Start picking up the books knuckle dragger - it ain't so "original."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JulioCortazar

"you don't need to be educated or read to know things and have ideas. why do you need to read about other people's ideas? why don't you just accept your own?"

Human beings have been around for thousands of years - and have been writing since Roman times. Are you so stupid that you think that there are any truly original ideas? You may have "thought" about it - but there are at least twenty people five times as famous and a million times smarter that have already thought of your "original idea." Come on! put down the crack pipe! The difference between your pitiful ideas and the ones that you find in books - people are willing to pay for their shit, and you just sit at home and jack off to your own. PLEASE!

you want to start playing chess?! don't think you have an "original" opening. You have a new idea? Start picking up the books knuckle dragger - it ain't so "original."

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i think you missed my point, and for the record i read just about everyday. what i'm saying is though, that you don't need to have read x amount of books or know the names and theories of x amount of philsophers to have any say because all that knowledge is in your mind already, its just that the words on the page articulate those ideals into something that you can comprehend beyond a feeling or an emotion. just think about the people who actually changed something in their world, people like adolf hitler, che guevara, lenin, marx, etc, do you really think that their thoughts would be enriched by literature? do you really think that marx and engels didn't want to kick start an economic revolution before they read a book? they didn't just read something and think "well, hey, yanno what, i don't like how i'm being governed, i'm gonna do something to change this, gee i'm glad i read a book, because MAN i couldn't even comprehend a revolution before i read something!"
it's fine reading books about politics and ideals to a certain extent, but after a while it becomes irrelevant. all that knowledge has to come from somewhere, the writers of the books have to know what they're talking about, don't they?
people can have these sorts of ideas without reading anything - take the peasant's revolt in england, for example. that happened because a lot of people were upset about the way they were being treated, not because they read a book about philosophy or economics, because none of them could actually read, which was probably one of the reasons why they revolted.
you can have an illiterate revolution, it's very possible, and it's been done, and you can have radical views without ever going to school, because it's been done.

ok - the idea is/ was there - however, people were willing to do more than praise "original" ideas. As for Lennin and Marx, they were fairly well educated people - and they only got better educated because their ideas were accepted by the masses (not given up for a four dollar shirt at walmart). Not only was Lennin a well educated man, he was a great speaker and a wonderful writer.

I understand that you read - your ideas begin to take a better shape that way. You are a rarity - the rich will get rich until the poor get educated (I'm not saying school or books - but educated all the same, and books certainly do help).

reading books gives growth to your sense of imagination. You cannot put together an idea with having the ability of critical thinking. Books are tools and forms of entertainment, but they are not original. Books are tools to give one the capability to accumulate an original idea or thought.

real build

ima go through this one later *subscribes*

Matthew Chapter 6:

19Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: 20But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
22The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
23But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
24No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
25Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
28And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
31Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

I've been trying to adhere to the ethic that you need to fix yourself before you try to save the next person, or society, or the whole world.

Be more self-sufficient. Whether it be monetarily, materially, energetically, mentally spiritually etc. The more you need other things, and other people the weaker and less elegant your ethic is. This includes the desire to save the world, or 'fix the system'.

If I can't overcome my petty vices I can't expect the next man to and I can't really blame the people that provide the means to it

If everyone just looked towards themselves and their self sufficiency, not needing all these prosthetics externalities to keep their desire going the world would be much better without any of us really having to approach it as a whole.

Discipline is of utmost importance to revolution. Without power, all we can have is the power over ourselves. If you don't have this as a start you can't get anywhere on a greater scale.

Platinum words yo - thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LHX

is that the starting point to improving the situation?

if the system is foul
and it has you hooked on shit

and uses this in order to get you to support the system
will rejecting these elements make a difference?


do you have it in you to unhook yourself?

to take what you need and nothing more?


ive come across a lot of dudes that can talk revolution
but
cant put down the herb
and work at starbucks to support they habit

they want to see equality
but
not when tomorrow is the release date for the new joint on xbox

cant pay 45 cents for a cup of rice to learn how to cook a meal
but
they can pay $5 at fast food and fill up they belly with trash

add on

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It may be natural of humans to be full of desire, greed and so on, but the thing that all of us forget is that there are different aspects to our nature. The aforementioned aspects being the very lowest and most animalistic. The Taoists say that we need to be, "detached", "desireless". Most of us may thing that this leads to being a walking zombie, but it's quite the opposite. If you quiet the mind and control the heart, then you gain clarity. The heart births all emotions, the mind is the seat of the soul. Since most of our minds can't stay in one place and most of our hearts don't know the difference between love and lust, needs and wants, temporary and lasting, then you get what we have today; a world full of people who have no sense of direction and even if they have a sense of direction, they're driving in circles.

So I say yes, reject luxury and desire in any form. The greedy search for spiritual power is just as dangerous as the search for worldly power. This is where you get Nazism, Islamic Extremism, Zionism, Klansmen, etc. It's about balance. To give up the glitz and glitter of the material world is no more than clearing your mind and listening to your soul. That's why the ancients didn't need a bunch of, "stuff". They searched within and only rarely depended on what was without.

Vote for Pedro.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LHX

youre right Tek

but everybody ALWAYS says this isnt possible


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real talk

peeps from the worst part taught this for obvious reasons although alternatively they coulda kept it civil wid those from the best part

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz

It may be natural of humans to be full of desire, greed and so on, but the thing that all of us forget is that there are different aspects to our nature. The aforementioned aspects being the very lowest and most animalistic. .

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yep. the higher needs to be shown coz words arent gonna cut it for most trapped in the the realm they're in

they need to see the angel eyes n da angel radiance in us