Questions And Answers - prof zooruka

Prof, so if God created everything, then this must mean he created Satan.

if God loves us so much, why would he create something to tempt us to sin?

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Originally Posted by Visionz

sounds like you're talking about some mass conspiracy that doesn't actually exist.

The speed of light is a universal constant. If a star or galaxy is more than ten thousand light years away then your theory of nothing existing before the earth (based on your assumption on the earths age) is shot to shit. My statement had nothing to do with evolution.

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verifiable truth ignored

One should be wary of talking on end about such subjects as learning, morality or folklore in front of elders or people
of rank. It is disagreeable to listen to.

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Originally Posted by Bronze Feet

Prof, so if God created everything, then this must mean he created Satan.

if God loves us so much, why would he create something to tempt us to sin?

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Yes God did create satan...satan according to sources and the bible was the best created thing that God made eg...In intellegencs, beauty and rank ect..., But he became blinded by his status and that lead to pride and so he wanted to kick God off the thrown and become God himself....but to answer your question God gave his creations free will and that means satan aswell, he didn`t create them to be mindless robots...and Satan and 1/3 of the angels that followed him chose to become wicked...The reason God allows this is becuse satan serves a purpose eg..testing a believers faith ect..... Also God allows him to roam free (but with limits) so he can prove to us and the angels that what satan is doing is ultimatly wrong...see if God got ride of satan and his followers instantly, the other angels and humans would think of God as a saddam hussain type figure, and if anyone disagree`s with him they are instantly dealt with...without showing them why they (satan) are wrong...and this would always in my opinion leave doubt about God and the beef, as to who was right...but by allowing satan to do his works, God can prove once and for all why choosing evil is wrong.


peace be with you !

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Originally Posted by prof zooruka

Yes God did create satan...satan according to sources and the bible was the best created thing that God made eg...In intellegencs, beauty and rank ect..., But he became blinded by his status and that lead to pride and so he wanted to kick God off the thrown and become God himself....but to answer your question God gave his creations free will and that means satan aswell, he didn`t create them to be mindless robots

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it's said that the angels DO NOT have free will - man does

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Originally Posted by prof zooruka

...and Satan and 1/3 of the angels that followed him chose to become wicked...The reason God allows this is becuse satan serves a purpose eg..testing a believers faith ect.....

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testing someones faith/ asking someone questions about their faith and not being pleased is not the work of satan - that is the work of thinking men and women who want to stand on facts - a belief can put a ceiling on your progress if you don't seek out the facts - putting a ceiling on your progress is the work of satan

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Originally Posted by prof zooruka

Also God allows him to roam free (but with limits)

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limited freedom huh

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Originally Posted by prof zooruka

so he can prove to us and the angels that what satan is doing is ultimatly wrong...

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god needs to prove to us that satan is wrong

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Originally Posted by prof zooruka

see if God got ride of satan and his followers instantly, the other angels and humans would think of God as a saddam hussain type figure,

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if god got rid of satan, wouldn't that rid us of all this evilness and destruction also - isn't satan the author of evilness and destruction or did god create that too ?

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Originally Posted by prof zooruka

and if anyone disagree`s with him that are instantly dealt with...without showing them why they (satan) are wrong...

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i really wish that you would look at all of this from another angle - because there is ALOT of truth in all you're saying - it's just tainted with white supremacy and greek mythology -

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Originally Posted by prof zooruka

and this would always in my opinion leave doubt about God and the beef as to who was right...but by allowing satan to do his works God can prove once and for all why choosing evil is wrong.


peace be with you !

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so if god gets rid of satan (someone humans cannot see), how would humans know that satan is gone and that god got rid of him ?


are you saying that humans would attack god for getting rid of satan ?

FOTGF ?

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Originally Posted by Slippy The Pimp

One should be wary of talking on end about such subjects as learning, morality or folklore in front of elders or people
of rank. It is disagreeable to listen to.

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i don't understand

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Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS

it's said that the angels DO NOT have free will - man does

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angels have free will to...thats why they could make the decision to rebel against God...but im not sure, but I have read that angels know instantly all sides of an argument at once, so therefore they know what they are doing and if this is true this would explain why God gives humans a second chance and not angels./... that doesn`t mean they know everything but they know the pro`s and con`s of there choices...Another thing is I think God in heaven never show`s off... and was just loving and satan and the other angels mistook that for weakness.


Also God didn`t create evil.... evil is created when there is a lack of good sort of like when night is created as there is a lack of light or cold is created when there is a lack of heat.

peace be with you !

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Originally Posted by prof zooruka

angels have free will to...thats why they could make the decision to rebel against God...

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who told you that ?

and didn't god see all of this coming before hand ?

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Originally Posted by prof zooruka

but im not sure, but I have read that angels know instantly all sides of an argument at once, so therefore they know what they are doing and if this is true this would explain why God gives humans a second chance and not angels./... that doesn`t mean they know everything but they know the pro`s and con`s of there choices...Another thing is I think God in heaven never show`s off... and was just loving and satan and the other angels mistook that for weakness.

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you are not sure - what would make you sure ?

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Originally Posted by prof zooruka

Also God didn`t create evil.... evil is created when there is a lack of good sort of like when night is created as there is a lack of light or cold is created when there is a lack of heat.

peace be with you !

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!sigh!



let's start from the beginning




8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?"





i read this many many times before - but right now it's telling me something that i haven't thought about before

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Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS

who told you that ?

and didn't god see all of this coming before hand ?

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God knows everything...so yes he did see it coming, but allowed it to happen..because like I said he gives free will...yes even to angels ( sorry sunny but the angels have free will otherwise satan and his angels wouldn`t have been allowed or couldn`t have rebeled against God like they did)....But yes God knows everything and for saw all these events and made the appropriate counter attack battle plans.


peace be with you !

where in the bible does it say that satan was an angel ?


thanks for your time

The first passage is about satan`s sin


“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
You said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’
But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.


—Isaiah 14:12-15



the second is about who satan was before his sin


'You were the model of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
ruby, topaz and emerald,
chrysolite, onyx and jasper,
sapphire, [a] turquoise and beryl. [b]
Your settings and mountings [c] were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.
14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you. 16 Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, O guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.



Actually satan was not an angel but a cherub ....cherub are the creature around God himself...and satan was the highest (the covering cherub) which means he covered the glory of God...making him the best created thing God made in rank , beauty, and intellegance.


peace be with you sunny

p.s see I did stay outta your thread.


peace be with you !

sunny that last passage about satan is a bad translation instead of saying gaurdian cherub....it should read like this:

"Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire."


peace be with you !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visionz

sounds like you're talking about some mass conspiracy that doesn't actually exist.

The speed of light is a universal constant. If a star or galaxy is more than ten thousand light years away then your theory of nothing existing before the earth (based on your assumption on the earths age) is shot to shit. My statement had nothing to do with evolution.

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why do you continue to ignore this post?

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Originally Posted by Visionz

why do you continue to ignore this post?

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. During the last 300 years, at least 164 separate measurements of the speed of light have been published. Sixteen different measurement techniques were used. Astronomer Barry Setterfield has studied these measurements, especially their precision and experimental errors. 1 His results show that the speed of light has apparently decreased so rapidly that experimental error cannot explain it! In the seven instances where the same scientists measured the speed of light with the same equipment years later, a decrease was always reported. The decreases were often several times greater than the reported experimental errors. This author has conducted other analyses that weight (or give significance to) each measurement according to its accuracy. Even after considering the wide range of accuracies, it is hard to see how anyone can claim, with any statistical rigor, that the speed of light has remained constant.


peace be with you !

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Originally Posted by prof zooruka

. During the last 300 years, at least 164 separate measurements of the speed of light have been published. Sixteen different measurement techniques were used. Astronomer Barry Setterfield has studied these measurements, especially their precision and experimental errors. 1 His results show that the speed of light has apparently decreased so rapidly that experimental error cannot explain it! In the seven instances where the same scientists measured the speed of light with the same equipment years later, a decrease was always reported. The decreases were often several times greater than the reported experimental errors. This author has conducted other analyses that weight (or give significance to) each measurement according to its accuracy. Even after considering the wide range of accuracies, it is hard to see how anyone can claim, with any statistical rigor, that the speed of light has remained constant.


peace be with you !

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this is where you show and prove your own inability to think for yourself (insomuch as actually applying the knowledge of what you are given)

If light does SLOW down as what you posted suggest this only means it has taken even longer to get here than originally persumed and is even older. This information does nothing to disprove that the earth was not the first thing ever created in the universe, it in fact does the opposite.

600 years ago you wouldve been the guy wanting to burn Galileo on a stake. Science helps to explain the wonders of God's work and the fundamentaly religious do all they can to deny it.

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Originally Posted by prof zooruka

The first passage is about satan`s sin


“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
You said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’
But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.


—Isaiah 14:12-15

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so where was he when HE (it is a he right) when he was saying all of this - cause i thought that the angels reside in heaven with god

and judging by the way the world is now, i would say he was successful in placing himself in a high position if god needs an army to defeat him

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Originally Posted by prof zooruka

the second is about who satan was before his sin


'You were the model of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden,
the garden of God;

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^

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Originally Posted by prof zooruka

every precious stone adorned you:
ruby, topaz and emerald,
chrysolite, onyx and jasper,
sapphire, [a] turquoise and beryl. [b]
Your settings and mountings [c] were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.
14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you. 16 Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, O guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.

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who said that this verse is about satan ?

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Originally Posted by prof zooruka

Actually satan was not an angel but a cherub ....cherub are the creature around God himself...and satan was the highest (the covering cherub) which means he covered the glory of God...making him the best created thing God made in rank , beauty, and intellegance.

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cause she is his wife

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Originally Posted by prof zooruka

peace be with you sunny

p.s see I did stay outta your thread.


peace be with you !

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don't take it personal

i stay outa some threads also cause i don't want to taint them with my bias - sometimes i don't notice that i'm being bias -

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Originally Posted by prof zooruka

sunny that last passage about satan is a bad translation instead of saying gaurdian cherub....it should read like this:

"Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire."


peace be with you !

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what did it originally read before all of the translations ?



18I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book:



If anyone adds anything to them,




God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy,
God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.








Revelation 20



The Thousand Years



1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.


3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.



coming down out of heaven to where ?



sounds like a very physical atercation









plus - is the serpent the same as satan ?




1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made.




if the answer is yes, then satan is a wild animal




Prof Zooruka - Please - take some time out and listen to this - it's very important

if God gave us free will, why are we restricted by laws, or justice of some form?

could it not be said, if God gave us true free will we would not be bound by such things. Would God's great plan(destiny) for each persons not become obsolete if we had true free will, for we could choose not to follow it.

there can never be free will. i would choose to defy gravity but i cannot and if it is said God created all, then i cannot have free will to break that force he so manifested. thus lacking true free will

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Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS

i don't understand

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Why is zook got a question and answer thread, when we have other people here.

I was taught to respect my elders, so I refrain from flaming some of the older people here out of respect. Because I know I can learn something from them as well as the younger kids....

So I just wondering what point of this was. Zook doesn't speak for all Christians, he's just some dude that believes what he believes. The energy in this thread could be better used on Q & A with some other folks.

I could try get a real Jesuit in here to answer questions about Christianity.

And catholism is not the only form of christianity anyway !!!!!!

But some of you act like its the only white peoples christianity or like its the whole christianity !!!

its Sad sad........... and its seen already !!

i've learned allot in this thread - sure others have also

Zoo is handling this better than any christian i've ever got into a questions and answers cypher with

i put up the bible thread for discussion - it wasn't as detailed as this - this one here opens doors to understanding each other and respect -


who else would you have in mind to question ?

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Originally Posted by Bronze Feet

if God gave us free will, why are we restricted by laws, or justice of some form?

could it not be said, if God gave us true free will we would not be bound by such things. Would God's great plan(destiny) for each persons not become obsolete if we had true free will, for we could choose not to follow it.

there can never be free will. i would choose to defy gravity but i cannot and if it is said God created all, then i cannot have free will to break that force he so manifested. thus lacking true free will

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Yes we do have free will...we have the right to choose if we want to obey the rule of law or we don`t...we have the choice and capability to choose to do anything we want whether good or bad...there is no restrictions on us when making personal decisions..that is what it means to have free will !!!!!!!!...we are not controlled like mindless robots !!!!!!!...Now this doesn`t mean God has not put in place consequences for bad choices....he has, but this does not effect free will, it is there to punish bad decisions made by free will and to provide justice...So when you say we don`t have free will because there are laws that is wrong because we are free to make decisions on whatever we want, but if we choose to do bad things, there will be consequences....otherwise if there was not, God would fail and be no better than satan because he would just sit back and allow evil to run rampid.





peace be with you !

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Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS

i've learned allot in this thread - sure others have also

Zoo is handling this better than any christian i've ever got into a questions and answers cypher with

i put up the bible thread for discussion - it wasn't as detailed as this - this one here opens doors to understanding each other and respect -


who else would you have in mind to question ?

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thanks sunny !!!!!!!!!


peace be with you !

now why do you think he gave us free will


what is the purpose ?

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Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS

now why do you think he gave us free will


what is the purpose ?

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Because he wants us to love and serve him because we choose to, not because we are forced to !!!!!!

But having said that some might say well God punishes those who don`t serve him with hell....but hell exists because there must be a consequence for doing wrong, otherwise doing evil wouldn`t be wrong and would become just another acceptable choice, because there would be no punishment, and if God where to allow this it would give people no moral ideal`s on how to conduct themselves in life, and also would condone satan and his activities, therefore leaveing God not as good God.... but a God who stands for nothing on anything and a God with no values.

peace be with you !

how is it possible to, by nature, be free of will
and at the same time be sinful by nature?
are these not opposing natures?

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Originally Posted by prof zooruka

Because he wants us to love and serve him because we choose to, not because we are forced to !!!!!!

But having said that some might say well God punishes those who don`t serve him with hell....but hell exists because there must be a consequence for doing wrong, otherwise doing evil wouldn`t be wrong and would become just another acceptable choice, because there would be no punishment, and if God where to allow this it would give people no moral ideal`s on how to conduct themselves in life, and also would condone satan and his activities, therefore leaveing God not as good God.... but a God who stands for nothing on anything and a God with no values.

peace be with you !

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...there is already consequences for doing wrong without there being a Hell. All action has consequence, this is Universal Law. What purpose does Hell serve in a Universe bound by the perfect Law of God?

HETEPU

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Originally Posted by prof zooruka

Yes we do have free will...we have the right to choose if we want to obey the rule of law or we don`t...we have the choice and capability to choose to do anything we want whether good or bad...there is no restrictions on us when making personal decisions..that is what it means to have free will !!!!!!!!...we are not controlled like mindless robots !!!!!!!...Now this doesn`t mean God has not put in place consequences for bad choices....he has, but this does not effect free will, it is there to punish bad decisions made by free will and to provide justice...So when you say we don`t have free will because there are laws that is wrong because we are free to make decisions on whatever we want, but if we choose to do bad things, there will be consequences....otherwise if there was not, God would fail and be no better than satan because he would just sit back and allow evil to run rampid.





peace be with you !

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but what of the laws of nature? are those laws not created by God as well. as my example previously, i cannot defy gravity and thus have no choice in the matter, and since God created all he created gravity, hence i lack free will. or did God not create the laws of nature? which would put a serious dent in his existence

^ I agree with Rooka on this one. You have the free will to defy gravity. Free will is the ability to make choice. The Laws of Nature do not effect your freedom to make the choice to defy gravity, just the outcome if you do.

HETEPU

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Originally Posted by Face of the Golden Falcon

^ I agree with Rooka on this one. You have the free will to defy gravity. Free will is the ability to make choice. The Laws of Nature do not effect your freedom to make the choice to defy gravity, just the outcome if you do.

HETEPU

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exactly


peace falcon


peace be with you !

can you and have you learn/learned any thing of value from a Muslim ?

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Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS

can you and have you learn/learned any thing of value from a Muslim ?

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Look sunny I don`t hate muslim people, I just don`t like the religion...I have known muslims who where very nice to me but having said that so have athiest`s so I think it had nothing to do with islam..... but honestly I pray that muslims come out from islam.

But to answer your question NO !!!!!!!!!

I get my spiritual guidance from the bible....and Ill be the first to admit I don`t always get it right but I want to.


peace be with you !

why not ?

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Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS

why not ?

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You really want to know why ????


It`s because I believe that everything you need is in the bible...I don`t want to learn from any other source...call me narrow minded or whatever but thats just how I feel....


peace be with you !

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Originally Posted by prof zooruka

You really want to know why ????


It`s because I believe that everything you need is in the bible...I don`t want to learn from any other source...call me narrow minded or whatever but thats just how I feel....


peace be with you !

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don't confuse being narrow minded with being on the straight and narrow


there is a scripture somewhere that says "in all things seek understanding"

2 Chronicles 7:14
if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:13-15 (in Context) 2 Chronicles 7 (Whole Chapter)



where are you looking ?

plus - i have my fathers eyes cause i was born with them, not because he decided to do me a favor and put them in my eye sockets

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Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS

don't confuse being narrow minded with being on the straight and narrow


there is a scripture somewhere that says "in all things seek understanding"

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:clap:

Prof, if you someday read the Koran you will find it has a large number of parallels to the Bible, just worded differently.

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Originally Posted by Mumm Ra

how is it possible to, by nature, be free of will
and at the same time be sinful by nature?
are these not opposing natures?

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any ideas prof?
or am i wrong in that the latter is not a christian belief?