shunning and rejecting luxury and desire

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Originally Posted by LHX

is this flourishing?

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what do you mean by "this"? modern north american society? if that's what you mean, I didn't comment on that. Rejecting one view does imply acceptance of another.

and what I mean by flourishing is advancement in knowledge, science, philosophy, standard of living, culture, art, etc.

Funny how the things that you own will always end up owning you.

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Originally Posted by denaturat

its a valid objection. your reply does not disarm my argument. not all people want to be farmers. I don't want to be a farmer. I want to be more involved in affairs of my society. If I spend hour working in the fields, i will have little opportunity to develop myself fully in other respects.

furthermore, you would be simply bored to death living on the farm - just eatings sleeping and procreating. in such a condition, you would be no different from an animal. human beings need challanges to develop fully as human beings. if there is no reward for reasearch, how do you expect people to advance their knowledge? you need differentiation. some people are smarter than others, some work harder, some are ambitious and some are lazy, unmotivated and unproductive. in a society where everyone just hangs out, there is no reward for the genius, and thus such individuals potential would stagnate. no one would want to be a doctor or a scientist if he or she is treated the same as an average person whose concern is only his belly and loins.

be realistic. your theories are impractical and nearsighted. you offer no meaningful solutions.

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you present a good arguement, though i don't think you quite know what my perfect world would be. i think there should be some people who are definitely farmers, with herds of cattle, goats, sheep, etc. i think though, that every family/household should have their own plot of land in an allotment to grow their own produce, so they can be truly independant, but still have the security of a society of close knit communities.

i believe in living in a more primitive and primal way, but i also believe in utilising the technology and knowledge we have developed, and also encouraging new technologies and ideas to be implemented and accepted into society. this means, for example, we would still have cars, but they would be green cars or electric cars, and we would only use them for long journeys, and not a trip to the shops. (which are obsolete in my utopia anyway)

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Originally Posted by Infinity tha God

Funny how the things that you own will always end up owning you.

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you are jack's flagrant disregard for intellectual property.

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Originally Posted by marauder1

so why doesn't everybody just be a bum? forget about careers and prosperity and knowledge; just be a flat out bum that just preaches until he dies. there's a thin line between knowledge and human nature.

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if everyone didn't work, our society as it is would collapse. i am trying to propose a society where we could survive if we didn't work, just not as well as if we did.

by the way, for those of you philosopher types who are interested, Plato's Republic is fascinating book on the topic of organizing society and on the idea of justice. I don't agree with a lot in it, and likely you will not either, but the book is phenomenal. it is actually quite easy to read. I recommend it.

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Originally Posted by denaturat

its a valid objection. your reply does not disarm my argument. not all people want to be farmers. I don't want to be a farmer. I want to be more involved in affairs of my society. If I spend hour working in the fields, i will have little opportunity to develop myself fully in other respects.

furthermore, you would be simply bored to death living on the farm - just eatings sleeping and procreating. in such a condition, you would be no different from an animal. human beings need challanges to develop fully as human beings. if there is no reward for reasearch, how do you expect people to advance their knowledge? you need differentiation. some people are smarter than others, some work harder, some are ambitious and some are lazy, unmotivated and unproductive. in a society where everyone just hangs out, there is no reward for the genius, and thus such individuals potential would stagnate. no one would want to be a doctor or a scientist if he or she is treated the same as an average person whose concern is only his belly and loins.

be realistic. your theories are impractical and nearsighted. you offer no meaningful solutions.

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Read the Protocols of Zion

You are a Zionist

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Originally Posted by denaturat

by the way, for those of you philosopher types who are interested, Plato's Republic is fascinating book on the topic of organizing society and on the idea of justice. I don't agree with a lot in it, and likely you will not either, but the book is phenomenal. it is actually quite easy to read. I recommend it.

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have you read H.G Wells's "utopia"?

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Originally Posted by arto

you present a good arguement, though i don't think you quite know what my perfect world would be. i think there should be some people who are definitely farmers, with herds of cattle, goats, sheep, etc. i think though, that every family/household should have their own plot of land in an allotment to grow their own produce, so they can be truly independant, but still have the security of a society of close knit communities.

i believe in living in a more primitive and primal way, but i also believe in utilising the technology and knowledge we have developed, and also encouraging new technologies and ideas to be implemented and accepted into society. this means, for example, we would still have cars, but they would be green cars or electric cars, and we would only use them for long journeys, and not a trip to the shops. (which are obsolete in my utopia anyway)

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that's a better explanation. though I still don't see how you could do away with capitalsit economy in your society and division of labor. i understand your ideal society as essentially a free market economy but one that is very highly regulated by laws that prect the evironment and redistribute wealth in a way that discourages greed and provides for the those less able to earn more.

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Originally Posted by arto

have you read H.G Wells's "utopia"?

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not utopia. why?

laws laws laws

What are laws? Who created these laws? Why do we need them?

Stop creating facts based on observations and start questioning what it is you are looking at.

communism or capitalism, pick your poison and shuttup

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Originally Posted by TeknicelStylez

laws laws laws

What are laws? Who created these laws? Why do we need them?

Stop creating facts based on observations and start questioning what it is you are looking at.

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you make no sense. you're not making an argument and you are not questioning anything in a menaingful why. what problem do you have with laws? tell me specifically what is wrong with laws?

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Originally Posted by denaturat

that's a better explanation. though I still don't see how you could do away with capitalsit economy in your society and division of labor. i understand your ideal society as essentially a free market economy but one that is very highly regulated by laws that prect the evironment and redistribute wealth in a way that discourages greed and provides for the those less able to earn more.

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i actually believe in a lawless society, where words like "economy" are defunct and left to the encylopedia of obscurity

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Originally Posted by denaturat

not utopia. why?

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recommended if you liked plato's work. it's basically his vision of a perfect planet.