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10-11-2009, 07:05 PM
zooruka

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumm Ra

from my experience there is nothing jesus can do for you that one cannot do for one's self (if so inclined)

"that the belief in jesus can do for you" if i may correct myself

he can give you eternal life no one else can do that for you let alone ones self.

also

vision for the record I dont think all christian denominations are wrong and certainly dont think they are going to hell...for example I think the orthadox church has got it right when it comes to the Filioque and I also believe that the protestants have it correct when they say "call no man father" and praying to saints....So while im a roman catholic I dont believe eveything they say or do is always correct.

peace be with you !
10-11-2009, 07:09 PM
PALEHORSE

eternal life is a gift for everyone, not a privilege from jesus.
peace
10-11-2009, 07:25 PM
Koolish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumm Ra

from my experience there is nothing jesus can do for you that one cannot do for one's self (if so inclined)

"that the belief in jesus can do for you" if i may correct myself

"judge not, that ye be not judged"

somehow Jesus figured out that if you don't judge anyone, they won't judge you. i doubt anyone else in history has come to this realization through thought.
10-11-2009, 07:42 PM
zooruka

Quote:

Originally Posted by PALEHORSE

eternal life is a gift for everyone, not a privilege from jesus.
peace

yes it is a gift the offer of eternal life is for everyone but it is given only to those who believe in Jesus. so it is a privilege from JESUS.

peace be with you !
10-11-2009, 07:44 PM
zooruka

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koolish

"judge not, that ye be not judged"

somehow Jesus figured out that if you don't judge anyone, they won't judge you. i doubt anyone else in history has come to this realization through thought.

yeah also what about love thy enemies...not body else has come with that radical notion.

peace be with you !
10-11-2009, 07:48 PM
BTTR KNG KOOL

i think eternal life is an achievement.
10-11-2009, 07:53 PM
zooruka

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTTR KNG KOOL

i think eternal life is an achievement.

yes you are correct ..... it is the achievement of obeying the Lord.

James1:12-“Blessed is the man that endureth temptation; for when he hath been approved, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord promised to
them that love Him”

Rev. 2:10-Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

peace be with you !
10-11-2009, 07:58 PM
PALEHORSE

Quote:

Originally Posted by prof zooruka

yes it is a gift the offer of eternal life is for everyone but it is given only to those who believe in Jesus. so it is a privilege from JESUS.

peace be with you !

thats just one book, and that book isnt even original
10-11-2009, 07:59 PM
PALEHORSE

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTTR KNG KOOL

i think eternal life is an achievement.

i think its the science of the universe, but the quality of that life is the variable
10-11-2009, 09:19 PM
BTTR KNG KOOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by PALEHORSE

i think its the science of the universe, but the quality of that life is the variable

yea I agree.
10-11-2009, 10:50 PM
Visionz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koolish

i've found a lot of people abandoned the belief because of Christians, and not because of Christ.

hypocrites are everywhere, being a Christian doesn't exclude you from being human, and i agree it's really annoying when they're preaching when you never asked.

even worse is that when they do it a lot of times they do it without asking you what your beliefs are. Converting christians to christianity :lmao: the nerve:)

but, like this one ex-catholic priest said, at the base level, local churches and communities, there's no real corruption. it's just good hearted people wanting to get together and spread the love of Jesus around. but when you go higher up, where the power is, you can find some evil.

I don't think that's always the case though. There's a church in the small town I'm from that has locked the black community down. The head preacher lives on top of the hill in a three story house (maybe the only one in town), they've got a fleet of like twenty cars (including a bentley) and you know because they mark 'em CHOP (christian house of prayer) #___. They've got their own credit union even. It's wild. From a homeboy of mine attending their service he says they're REAL insistent when passing around the donation plate and I believe it when you look at all the luxuries they've bathed themselves in. It's my personal opinion that preachers should be more humble than that and when they're not its because they're corrupt. Maybe that's not always the case but it sure seems that way. I will say that the base level attendants of a church are probably mostly good-hearted people but keep your eye on the preacher. "ooooooooh Rev ain't right" :nonono: you gotta watch what they walk to really know who you're dealing with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prof zooruka

vision for the record I dont think all christian denominations are wrong

You've made at least one statement in the recent past that would contradict that. I'm not digging it up but it was something to the effect of "Roman Catholicism is the only true christian church." Well if its the only true one then the extension of that logic tells you all the others are false. You can't have it both ways.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prof zooruka

yes you are correct ..... it is the achievement of obeying the Lord.

James1:12-“Blessed is the man that endureth temptation; for when he hath been approved, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord promised to
them that love Him”

Rev. 2:10-Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Jesus says in the Bible, if you forget all else, love and respect God with all your heart and treat others as you want to be treated.

All else on top of that imo is self-righteous fluff. The catholic church for so long had hold of these books and for the longest time they didn't even want you to read 'em. Until I can read hebrew and see the original text, then there's a lot in the bible that I simply don't trust. It has nothing to do with my mistrust of God but my mistrust of people in power, especially when that power is absolute. How convenient that a power structure has this book that tells you all your rewards come to you after you die and please kneel when you pray as we have an empire to build upon your back. They don't actually say it but actions speak louder than words.

Remember when Jesus was flipping over the tables of merchants in the church?

Quote:

"The Catholic church is the biggest financial power, wealth accumulator and property owner in existence. She is a greater possessor of material riches than any other single institution, corporation, bank, giant trust, government or state of the whole globe. The pope, as the visible ruler of this immense amassment of wealth, is consequently the richest individual of the twentieth century. No one can realistically assess how much he is worth in terms of billions of dollars."

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin...cgi?read=68927

How many dead bodies are directly connected to this accumulated wealth?

They'll get theirs now, you get yours when you die. wink, wink. :nonono:
10-11-2009, 11:59 PM
zooruka

Quote:

Originally Posted by Visionz

It's my personal opinion that preachers should be more humble than that and when they're not its because they're corrupt. Maybe that's not always the case but it sure seems that way. :

you cant just assume because someone is wealthy they are corrupt and stealing from the collection plate....most of these preachers that do live in luxury do so because they make money outside of the church through book deals and self help and motivational speaking aids..also the bible tells us not to judge "SO I DONT" also where in the bible does GOD say that only poor people are humble or that people shouldnt display there wealth because it doesnt show humility ???? look at solomon and his wealth look at the wealth GOD bestowed on abraham and job (after he restored him) GOD isnt against wealth completely and only he can judge the rich on who is humble and who is not or who is corrupt and who is not and dicide who is worthy to go to heaven and who is not.... thats not up to you to decide and thats not to say there is no corrpution but your thinking shows a lack of maturity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Visionz

You've made at least one statement in the recent past that would contradict that. I'm not digging it up but it was something to the effect of "Roman Catholicism is the only true christian church." Well if its the only true one then the extension of that logic tells you all the others are false. You can't have it both ways.:

yes I did say that because it is the true church of Christ but thats not to say I think they always get it right and also that other denominations are wrong or are damned to hell for not being apart of the rcc.

visions I think your intentions are in the right place but your suspicion is getting the better of you... just remember this my friend that whatever happens in the church or whatever the men in power do should not take you away from JESUS CHRIST remember when all else fails he and his example is true...so put your faith in christ and his teachings and leave it up to GOD to judge and sort out the corrupt and dishonest officials.

edit: also dont let all these so called guru`s get into your head most of them have a hidden agenda which usually starts with discrediting the church and religion in general....because they themselves are non believers and want everybody else to be the same...they are agents of satan i.m.o.

peace be with you !
10-12-2009, 06:34 AM
Mumm Ra

Quote:

Originally Posted by prof zooruka

he can give you eternal life no one else can do that for you let alone ones self.

yes ones self can
regardless - would you agree that jesus does absolutely nothing here on earth for us that one cannot will oneself to do?

and another question -
do you think jesus is more concerned/ narcissistic about himself than he is about righteousness?
do you think he would frown upon a righteous and universally-loving person who disbelieves in him more than a believer of him who sins?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koolish

"judge not, that ye be not judged"

somehow Jesus figured out that if you don't judge anyone, they won't judge you. i doubt anyone else in history has come to this realization through thought.

and why would they? its not even true.
why wouldn't someone have the ability to judge me (whether right or wrong) even though I don't judge them? any person off the street could judge me if they so wanted. i don't think being non-judgmental stops another's free will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prof zooruka

yeah also what about love thy enemies...not body else has come with that radical notion.

define "love" please (and if you can, define it exactly how jesus meant it)
and then - why is that a good thing towards enemies?
is it wrong to punish someone you love?

also - if you studied any spiritual system besides your own (so how would you know anyway lol) you'd find you are incorrect. the notion is older than jesus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prof zooruka

edit: also dont let all these so called guru`s get into your head most of them have a hidden agenda which usually starts with discrediting the church and religion in general....because they themselves are non believers and want everybody else to be the same...they are agents of satan i.m.o.

i hope you realize if one were to switch that paragraph around and have it talk about giving credit to the church and being a believer (keep the agent of satan part tho, i.m.o.) - it would describe you exactly.

peace
10-12-2009, 08:20 AM
Visionz

Quote:

you cant just assume because someone is wealthy they are corrupt and stealing from the collection plate....most of these preachers that do live in luxury do so because they make money outside of the church through book deals and self help and motivational speaking aids..also the bible tells us not to judge "SO I DONT" also where in the bible does GOD say that only poor people are humble or that people shouldnt display there wealth because it doesnt show humility ???? look at solomon and his wealth look at the wealth GOD bestowed on abraham and job (after he restored him) GOD isnt against wealth completely and only he can judge the rich on who is humble and who is not or who is corrupt and who is not and dicide who is worthy to go to heaven and who is not.... thats not up to you to decide and thats not to say there is no corrpution but your thinking shows a lack of maturity.

how bout you look up humble in a dictionary and marinate on it for a second. And if my thinking is a sign of immaturity its only matched by your naivety. Book Deals :lmao: You don't have to steal from the collection plate when you own it.

http://www.chop.org/iaah/store/index.html
^get your DVD's now, for the low, low price of $51 :lmao: too low???, you're RIGHT that's why through this special introductory offer we've got one of me talking for $85.....that's right Jesus will come through your TV and chill on your couch and eat up all of your Planter's cheeseballs for an unbelievably low price of $85. Hurry up and act now, the insurance on my Bentley is outrageous :b

^and this is just one church and from a town of about 30,000 people. God only knows how many more are out there just like it. Ain't a damn thing humble about a dude selling you a DVD for $85 when you've got next to no overhead cost. He's probably making about $80 bucks for every one sold. :no: Its a shame.
10-12-2009, 10:09 AM
Koolish

damn, i guess in america Christianity has become real commercial.

i remember sitting down high yesterday, i flipped on this evangelical preacher, to see what he was trying to get across. you could tell it was a business, he's telling everyone "you are a child of destiny", not according to the Bible you're not. he's just saying what everyone wants to hear, and gets a nice cheque at the end of the day for sure.

i remember Bill Hicks talking about how much of a business evangelical preaching became. the love of money is the root of all evil they say.

i understand why a lot of americans are so against Christianity, if it's acting like that you can't help but assume the Bible itself is corrupt in the same way.

my local priest here is living in poverty, the collection plate doesn't cover anything, all it does is help so that the bishops/higher churches don't have to send us as much money.

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