Black Hebrews

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05-21-2013, 11:45 AM
cj wisty

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kephrem

they have a degree of melanin = not red which a lack thereof

red isn't a measure of melanin, it's a colour. the Yemenites in that pictures obviously have red coloured skin. Don't look at the levels of melanin, look at the colour. It is red.

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didn't he also think they were cursed with blackness? "In the Book of Mormon, Lamanites are described as having a "skin of blackness"...so which one is it?

sorry looks like I followed a false claim http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mor...Curse/Red_skin

not exactly sure what he means by a skin of blackness because native americans definitely arent black. It's weird like when French Canadians call people with a swarthy appearance "nigra" and some Africans call light skinned people "white".

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what you see in albinos is the lack of melanin which gives a pinkish hue which is red...

that is just stretching it. albinos do have a slight pink colour but the Hebrew word for red which describes Edom is a deep blood red, it's not some shade of red, and it's definitely not pink.

and "white" would have been a far more suitable colour to describe an albino rather than "red". It would just be unneccesarily awkard to call an albino red.

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Sirach (Apocrypha) chapter 33:10
And all men are from the ground, and Adam was CREATED OF
EARTH.

the earh is brown not red

Lol the earth is all different colours. It's not just brown. I just showed you two pictures with red earth.

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was eve made of an actual rib?

i don't believe in the Bible but the Bible says she was made from Adam's rib.

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at times it sure is metaphorical....so then what does red represent there if not the actual color of the devil according to you....and is that red color good?

red probably represents anger or fury in the context or maybe John just saw a red dragon in his dream and there was no real reason it was red.

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both the color red and white are used unfavorably when leprosy is described...

black skin is used unfavourably in Lamentations 4:8 and Job 30:30. I don't know what point you're trying to make here.

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can brown skinned people "grow blacker"..yes or no?

really?? scabs?!

yes brown people can grow blacker from the sun or from not eating enough. white people can grow blacker from tanning as well. Only very black people can't grow any darker.

"Can an Ethiopian change his skin or a leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil." Jeremiah 13:23

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white = holines... as in having a clean slate... and rubies represent hardness..durabilty...or strength

how come in two consecutive verses whenever the Jews are described as red and dazzingly white it's metaphorical but whenever they're described as black it's literal.

it can't just change from allegorical to literal.

this hebrew word זָכַךְ can mean purer or more dazzling but this one צָחַח just means whiter or more dazzling so I don't think it can mean purer, but must mean more dazzling.

Lamentations 4:7 says "their bodies more ruddy than rubies" it doesn't say "harder than rubies" or "more durable than rubbies" or "stronger than rubies".

it says "more ruddy than rubies" so it's referring to the colour of rubies and not any other properties.

and from reading Job 30:30 "My skin grows black and peels; my body burns with fever"

and Lamentations 4:8 "But now they are blacker than soot;
they are not recognized in the streets.
Their skin has shriveled on their bones;
it has become as dry as a stick."

I think that they might have got black boils which can turn into very bad scabs if you itch them. it fits with the descriptions

http://drpinna.com/wp-content/upload...10/6348371.jpg

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct...69235558786364

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can brown skinned people become blacker?

or do red people become blacker?

both can turn darker

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can brown skinned people become blacker? the jews were mistaken for egyptians which were african...the classic egyptians were not whiter then snow or red/european colored

I think I've answered these previously.

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jesus was an unoriginal jew?

there were Jews 1,000s of years before Jesus.

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its russian...and at the very least 300 years old..if not 500

russians took an orthodox christian painthing from africans and placed it in a ancient russian cathedral as a holy relic? and lets say they did....thats not the sole one that depicts hebrews as black...so the question remains why...

dude I don't even know where you got that picture. It could be a hoax for all I know. I wouldn't even know it was Jesus unless someone told me. I still don't know if it is Jesus.
Whereabouts in Russia was it found? Was your source reliable? etc

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so now not only does red mean brown and white but also orange?

it's hard to pinpoint an exact colour but you basicly know what I mean. They're clay coloured.
05-21-2013, 01:48 PM
diggy

Just read the first post.
05-22-2013, 01:17 AM
Kephrem

Quote:

Originally Posted by rakimkoolgrapwutang

red isn't a measure of melanin, it's a colour.

red skin is a lack of melanin. the melanated people of the earth are different shades of brown... european descended people are different shades of red from near albino to pink to a deep red

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the Yemenites in that pictures obviously have red coloured skin. Don't look at the levels of melanin, look at the colour. It is red.

light brown..so lets agree to disagree on this point

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sorry looks like I followed a false claim http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mor...Curse/Red_skin

not exactly sure what he means by a skin of blackness because native americans definitely arent black.

native americans ranged from different shades of brown from light brown to dark brown which would be considered black by todays standards

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that is just stretching it. albinos do have a slight pink colour but the Hebrew word for red which describes Edom is a deep blood red, it's not some shade of red, and it's definitely not pink.

so what youre saying or to clarify your over stance here is that red can be white-brown-orange, etc- but not pink! - which is in fact it's most closest shade?!

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and "white" would have been a far more suitable colour to describe an albino rather than "red". It would just be unneccesarily awkard to call an albino red.

are redheds the closest looking people to albinos yes or no?

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Lol the earth is all different colours. It's not just brown. I just showed you two pictures with red earth.

rich soil is black soil

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red probably represents anger or fury in the context or maybe John just saw a red dragon in his dream and there was no real reason it was red.

you do know that as a nation edom was the only one not promised future salvation and is even written to be the recipient of great future judgement resulting in complete annhilation....is it then a coincidence esau/edom and the devil/satan are both classified as red?

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black skin is used unfavourably in Lamentations 4:8 and Job 30:30. I don't know what point you're trying to make here.

the situation was unfavourable not the color of the skin

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yes brown people can grow blacker from the sun or from not eating enough. white people can grow blacker from tanning as well. Only very black people can't grow any darker.

which white people? like those milky white/red ones that are the center of your arguement? i think not

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how come in two consecutive verses whenever the Jews are described as red and dazzingly white it's metaphorical but whenever they're described as black it's literal.

it can't just change from allegorical to literal.

again, the hebrews were thought to be an african people...

Roman historian Tacitus on the jews:

"Many, again, say that they were a race of Ethiopian origin"

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...y/tacitus.html

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this hebrew word זָכַךְ can mean purer or more dazzling but this one צָחַח just means whiter or more dazzling so I don't think it can mean purer, but must mean more dazzling.

Lamentations 4:7 says "their bodies more ruddy than rubies" it doesn't say "harder than rubies" or "more durable than rubbies" or "stronger than rubies".

it says "more ruddy than rubies" so it's referring to the colour of rubies and not any other properties.

the word ruddy has lost its original meaning in the description of a young David, it has ancient tie-ins with being "young" evidence lending to this is goliath as a famed warrior thought it beneath him to fight david being "ruddy"...which wouldnt make sense if it meant "red skin color"... but makes better sense if it meant young & fresh -- or in other words a fresh faced youth who had no buisness facing a proven warrior....logically his color wouldnt have been mentioned at all..

1st Samuel 17:42 And when the Philistine looked about, and saw David, he disdained him: for he was but a youth, and ruddy, and of a fair countenance.

Main Entry: fresh
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: energetic, healthy
Synonyms: active, alert, blooming, bouncing, bright, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, chipper, clear, dewy, fair, florid, glowing, good, hardy, invigorated, keen, like new, lively, refreshed, rehabilitated, relaxed, relieved, rested, restored, revived, rosy, ruddy, sprightly, spry, stimulated, undimmed, unfaded, unused, unwearied, unwithered, verdant, vigorous, vital, wholesome, young

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and from reading Job 30:30 "My skin grows black and peels; my body burns with fever"

i read in job 30:30 "my skin is black on me" not that it "grows black and peels"...and even if it did become darker (close to jet black) thats not something milky white or red people can undergo

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and Lamentations 4:8 "But now they are blacker than soot;
they are not recognized in the streets.
Their skin has shriveled on their bones;
it has become as dry as a stick."

I think that they might have got black boils which can turn into very bad scabs if you itch them. it fits with the descriptions

http://drpinna.com/wp-content/upload...10/6348371.jpg

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct...69235558786364

milky white/red people cannot become blacker then soot, or as i read it have visage (meaning faces) "blacker then coal"

Quote:

dude I don't even know where you got that picture. It could be a hoax for all I know. I wouldn't even know it was Jesus unless someone told me. I still don't know if it is Jesus.
Whereabouts in Russia was it found? Was your source reliable? etc

http://ru-icons.ru/part1/part14/1_1_137-8.htm

it's 17th century... and while blacks in the americas were being raped, robbed, and murdered in the americas...as well as kidnapped from west africa there was someone painting the geneology of jesus christ and all of the noble house of david the jews / ancient christians -- saints and the prophets -- as black people

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it's hard to pinpoint an exact colour but you basicly know what I mean. They're clay coloured.

you do know the nubians and the egyptians in that image were related, right? or were they the so-called reddish/orangish relatives of the milky white/reddish folk you've been advocating for here?
05-22-2013, 02:27 PM
cj wisty

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kephrem

red skin is a lack of melanin. the melanated people of the earth are different shades of brown... european descended people are different shades of red from near albino to pink to a deep red

white people have never been described as redskinned (ruddy is a different thing).

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light brown..so lets agree to disagree on this point

copper brown/reddish

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native americans ranged from different shades of brown from light brown to dark brown which would be considered black by todays standards

Arabs Indians and Asians are brown but they're not called black.

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so what youre saying or to clarify your over stance here is that red can be white-brown-orange, etc- but not pink! - which is in fact it's most closest shade?!

no i'm saying Ancient Hebrews would have called an albino "white".

even though the Jews were off a brownish colour they would not call themselves that because they were trying to differentiate themselves from all the other people around them who would be brown so they called themselves "red" because they had a red tint and were redder than most of the others.

it's similiar to why Asians are called "yellow". they could be described as white to brown but people wanted to differeniate between them and other brown or white people so they called them "yellow" because of their yellow tint.

but there were no white people in the middle East when the Jews were there so what would be the need to call an albino "red".

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are redheds the closest looking people to albinos yes or no?

except ancient Jews wouldnt have ever seen a redhead in their life so how does that apply.

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rich soil is black soil

i'm looking skimming through Genesis and I see no mention of rich soil, however this word comes up a lot http://lexiconcordance.com/hebrew/0127.html

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you do know that as a nation edom was the only one not promised future salvation and is even written to be the recipient of great future judgement resulting in complete annhilation....is it then a coincidence esau/edom and the devil/satan are both classified as red?

Thou shalt not abhor an Edomite; for he is thy brother: thou shalt not abhor an Egyptian, because thou wast a sojourner in his land.-Deutronomy 23:7

what about Doeg the Edomite? He is supposed to be a great example of a convert to Judaism.

Black is usually seen as the colour of evil and white as a colour of good or peace or purity, but trust me if you apply that to skin colour it doesn't work.

So yes it is a coincidence. The Devil used to be called the Black Man.

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the situation was unfavourable not the color of the skin

the situation brought about that colour of skin. The colour of skin was unfavourable because it was a sympton but not because black people aren't good or anything like that.

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which white people? like those milky white/red ones that are the center of your arguement? i think not

I don't think the Jews were originally white

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again, the hebrews were thought to be an african people...

Roman historian Tacitus on the jews:

"Many, again, say that they were a race of Ethiopian origin"

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...y/tacitus.html

lol u cant just nitpick. i remember studying Tacitus in school. He's not celebrated for historical accuracy but for his writing skills.

that account also says the Jews could've been from Assyria or that they were the Solymi. the Solymi lived in modern day Turkey.

so no they weren't thought to be African. people are just making random origin stories for the Jews stretching from Turkey to Ethiopia and Tacitus is just recording them all down without going in depth or backing up his points.

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the word ruddy has lost its original meaning in the description of a young David, it has ancient tie-ins with being "young" evidence lending to this is goliath as a famed warrior thought it beneath him to fight david being "ruddy"...which wouldnt make sense if it meant "red skin color"... but makes better sense if it meant young & fresh -- or in other words a fresh faced youth who had no buisness facing a proven warrior....logically his color wouldnt have been mentioned at all..

1st Samuel 17:42 And when the Philistine looked about, and saw David, he disdained him: for he was but a youth, and ruddy, and of a fair countenance.

Main Entry: fresh
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: energetic, healthy
Synonyms: active, alert, blooming, bouncing, bright, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, chipper, clear, dewy, fair, florid, glowing, good, hardy, invigorated, keen, like new, lively, refreshed, rehabilitated, relaxed, relieved, rested, restored, revived, rosy, ruddy, sprightly, spry, stimulated, undimmed, unfaded, unused, unwearied, unwithered, verdant, vigorous, vital, wholesome, young

can u prove these ancient tie-ins with the Hebrew word for red meaning younger.

also you seem to be listing English synonyms and then saying that they're also synonyms in the Hebrew language. It doesn't work like that.

There's a Latin word called submittere which means both to raise and to lower and that obviously doesn't work for English.

Also the reason that "ruddy" is connected with "fresh" is because when white people exercise and are generally more healthy they get more of a red glow around their face.

In the Bible red skin was a sign of beauty because they thought that it was a nice tone.

The only way I can see the connection between "red" and "young" is because younger, healthier people would have more blood in their face and more of a red glow will shine through.

also it makes a lot of sense that Goliath would hate him for his redskin. He would realise that he was a Jew or some other Semite and then hate him for it.

But why do you think "red" and "young" are connected?

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i read in job 30:30 "my skin is black on me" not that it "grows black and peels"...and even if it did become darker (close to jet black) thats not something milky white or red people can undergo

yes you can also translate it as that as well but read it in context. It's not just randomly saying that Job is a black man. That makes no sense. It's obviously connected to his wretched and deseased condition.

In the Black Death in Europe people got gangrene which caused their flesh and skin to die and turn coal black.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._to_plague.jpg

so yes it can happen and sounds similiar to what happened to Job in Job 30:30 and the Jews in Lamentations 4:8

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milky white/red people cannot become blacker then soot, or as i read it have visage (meaning faces) "blacker then coal"

gangrene as shown above can do this as can other deseases.

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http://ru-icons.ru/part1/part14/1_1_137-8.htm

it's 17th century... and while blacks in the americas were being raped, robbed, and murdered in the americas...as well as kidnapped from west africa there was someone painting the geneology of jesus christ and all of the noble house of david the jews / ancient christians -- saints and the prophets -- as black people

How do you know it's from the 17th century? I don't even know if it's Russian. Someone could have just stuck that on the internet and said it was Russian. It doesn't even look that Russian tome. I don't find it very convincing. It gives no information on it and the source isn't credible. Do you even know whereabouts in Rome where it was found?

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you do know the nubians and the egyptians in that image were related, right? or were they the so-called reddish/orangish relatives of the milky white/reddish folk you've been advocating for here?

hahahahaha everyone's related in some way. I said earlier that white people aren't red people. What precisely do you mean by related?

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