Charles Jones in his own words

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Originally Posted by NickyTooch

This isn't a white black issue, its more of a industrialized nation issue. Its a socio-economical issue that started when factory's opened up and people no longer worked for landowners and lived on their land or owned their own land...instead they sold their labor for wages. Capitalism. Its a result of the progression of the modern world.
All you have to do is look at the history. Its right there, plain as day. Its something Marx and Engels predicted in the communist manifesto....And alot of what they predicted is true, but not all of it.
Again, we have to reach that happy medium, but in a cash based society its hard to control greed. Shit forget cash based, its hard to control greed anyway.
America is as good as its middle class...that happy medium again, the balance between poor and rich. The safety net for the rich, and the stepladder within reach for the poor.
Unfortunately with todays high prices on just about everything, the rich are getting richer, the poor poorer and the middle class is shrinking....Marx predicted it was inevitable. And from this class wars persist...

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With all due respect, who are you to say what it is and what it isn't? You refer back to people other than you to support your idea (Marx, class issue), but what you fail to do is report the other side of the coin and that those same people who are the founders of said society, then you'll know it is a black white thing where class is used as shield to hide the fact that it's really a black white thing.....and this is not what "I" say, it's what they (those who had the idea, power, and will to make this society what it is) say, not me, them!

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Originally Posted by Black Man

you'll know it is a black white thing where class is used as shield to hide the fact that it's really a black white thing.....

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im gonna quote you on what you just said to him

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Originally Posted by Black Man

With all due respect, who are you to say what it is and what it isn't?

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its really not a black white thing, maybe it was in the 50s and 60s, but i think its a class thing, color has nothing to do with it anymore, i think if your shit poor and white youll more than likely get the same treatment as someone whos shit poor and black

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Originally Posted by rek357

im gonna quote you on what you just said to him


its really not a black white thing, maybe it was in the 50s and 60s, but i think its a class thing, color has nothing to do with it anymore, i think if your shit poor and white youll more than likely get the same treatment as someone whos shit poor and black

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Right. The majority always has the advantage over the minority of any given society, as far as race or ethnicity goes....and if they don't then its because the minority has more money. Although you can find instances were race plays a part in things, on the whole its about class and money.

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Originally Posted by rek357

im gonna quote you on what you just said to him


its really not a black white thing, maybe it was in the 50s and 60s, but i think its a class thing, color has nothing to do with it anymore, i think if your shit poor and white youll more than likely get the same treatment as someone whos shit poor and black

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Again, "YOU" can say all you want about it (it's a class issue), you're not the one who's making things happen...the one's who make things happen say it's a black/white thing....the wool over your eyes is class but if you actually study, research, and listen to the movers and shakers then you'll know what's really good!

You'll know why there's such a thing called class.....it's built, the foundation of class is a black/white thing.

shit poor and white > shit poor and black
this is the same "white supremecy" racist society as it was yesterday....just handled in a different manner.

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Originally Posted by NickyTooch

Right. The majority always has the advantage over the minority of any given society, as far as race or ethnicity goes....and if they don't then its because the minority has more money. Although you can find instances were race plays a part in things, on the whole its about class and money.

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The same thing gets said over and over, generation to generation....it's not about color it's a class issue and a money issue....blah blah blah. Things don't change because the problem isn't being solved, only the many layers that one problem has manifested gets dealt with.

The majority doesn't have the advantage...not where I'm at. And I'm not talking about a city I'm talking about the country. The minority has the power and the power didn't come because of money.

People think it's about "class and money" those people don't know the rich! The rich don't want money, they want what controlls people.

BTW, the lowest class is the blackman! There's class for you.

It's not about race, it's about class the lowest of the lowest class is black people!

i think that this thread basically agrees that "work is good!" and it is.

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Originally Posted by rek357

deleted for the sake of not starting more arguments

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Originally Posted by rek357

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Visions Unseen - you are totally missing my point. NO ONE should have to spend 40 hours a week to obtain food and shelter ( most people do spend 40 hours and end up with pretty average food and shelter - and that's if you live in a lucky country!). The reason is that a few make ALOT of money while the rest do alot of work and or starve.

There is enough wealth on the planet for EVERYONE to have $3 million US. The reason the US and other Western countries are rich is coz half the fucking world doesn't have enough to eat, while motherfuckers in our country become over worked fat pigs on fast food.

And Nicky Tooch why did you quote me and say it isn't a black and white issue? In the case of the Jus Allah line the "devil" would be the white (western / industrialised) mentality, and the slavery is quite obviously the job. I wasn't implying a race issue. I am white and broke as fuck. My whole family is.

Also, I think people are taking the reference to the job as slavery in the wrong way. No one meant that it doesn't pay (as in a literal slavery) just that it is something that wastes a persons life away on the wrong priorities. Yes we apply for these jobs, because at the moment we have no alternative course of action.

Yes, Visions Unseen, I am nearly finished my business degree and I hope to use it to find a way around it. Who knows if I can, but I will try.

I am also not putting forth the idea that hard work isn't good for us. I just think the priorities are wrong. Why can't wealth be a bit more failry distributed ( I don't mean in a Communist way, but just by everyone having a decent start and opportunities to education in life) and we work smarter. And how about instead of ALL our waking efforts being directed at CASH we re-focus on some shit which is KINDA IMPORTANT.

Like:
- Our emotional development
- Our mental health
- Our physical health
- Our ability to think, rationalize, learning etc
- "Spirituality" or whatever you call it
- Building better family relationships and spending time with our families, teaching our kids
- And -how about this for something outrageous - THINGS WE ENJOY! Hobbies, or maybe working to a cause which we believe in, when the fuck did we forget that we only live once?

Now, you gonna tell me we aren't wasting our time chasing cash, enslaved to the money, when there are more important things for us to do? We have school shootings, depression, generations who are apathetic and unmotivated, suicide, an irresponsible society, global warming, a problem with obesity, mental disorders, a ridiculously high divorce rate, a society largely devoid of morals, terrorism (you think that isn't due to poverty, lack of education, lack of proper mental development?). And it is all because we have been led to believe that WE NEED TO WORK THIS MUCH JUST TO LIVE.

We only have to work this much to eat and live because the way it is set up to the advantage of a few.

And REK, your view is idiotic. Because I agree and am paid, it is ok? Have you heard of SLAVE LABOUR. Where they exploit third world workers for ridiculously low pay. Yes, they all agree to it. Infact that will queue up and and do anything for the job. Does that make it right?! No! They have no other option, nor is their pay sufficient for the portion of their lives they give up to the job.

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Originally Posted by SubtleEnergies

And REK, your view is idiotic. Because I agree and am paid, it is ok? Have you heard of SLAVE LABOUR. Where they exploit third world workers for ridiculously low pay. Yes, they all agree to it. Infact that will queue up and and do anything for the job. Does that make it right?! No! They have no other option, nor is their pay sufficient for the portion of their lives they give up to the job.

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thats not the subject big guy, we arent talkin about third world slave labor we are talking about

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Originally Posted by CharlesJones

Construction
Driving delivery trucks
Janitorial/cleaning(this job doesn't pay good but it's slavery work)
Factory and warehouse work
Office work

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obviously hes referring to developed countries here learn to read the topic better.
do they have office workers doing third world slave labour with AC sittin in front a a PC on the internet with 401k and health benefits including dental? dont think so,


those delivery drivers he talkin about. are they gettin whipped in the morning? i doubt it.
are my construction worker friends pavin the ground in bare feet with a overseer on a horse holdin a shotgun lookin over them?
any fuckin job that someone applied for and gets paid minumum wage or over for is
NOT SLAVERY any other view is idiotic not mine.

my friend who works in a factory warehouse in a freezer is given a huge coat and thick gloves and gets paid 15+ an hour. thats slavery to you? if it is you got a warped mentality

i have another option in my country, im not in zimbabwe or ethiopia where i may not have a choice but to work for 2 cents a day, its called applying for another job, if i apply for a construction job and get it and get paid 26+ an hour that is NOT SLAVE LABOR if you think so your the idiot

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Originally Posted by rek357

honestly, your also the laziest class thats why. i know more blacks swindlin free money from the govt and not wantin to work than any of them, too many want free handouts and that BS.

and out of all my employees, the black males were the first to no show at work and slack off and make a freakin excuse for anything free or to get out of doing any real work. the oriental and mid easterners work ethic is way more dedicated than whites,
black males have always been my laziest employees, hows that for class? thats real research from the real work force in real life, not some book i fuckin read
anyone can state some "facts" and put it on paper.

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so your own personal experience should define a whole race of people? How many corperations that got rich off of slavery and all that free labor are still around today? Four hundred years of enslavement was bound to have reprecussions. Conversations such as these tend to sweep the historical context of the situation under the rug. Sure everyone who was a slave has been dead for a while now but ideas are alot harder to kill than any one human.

That which is in a person, will come out. Here's a prime example. First, it's about class, now it's black people need to do this that and the third, black have this that and the third, and white people don't have this that and the third. You may not know what's really good, but know that I KNOW WHAT'S REALLY GOOD!!!

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yo stop being a fuckin crybaby, it seems a good amount a black people need to stop bein such fuckin whiny crybabys, U have AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, we DONT,
you have BLACK ENTERTAINMENT TELEVISION, WE DONT, If i came out with white entertainment TV it would be off the air so fuckin fast,
see what happens if i come out with a white based magazine that dealt with all white issues, pulled from shelves in a heartbeat. the only EXCUSE that would be said was that almost all tv and media is white media.

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Let's first start with the typical "white" response to "black people" speaking up for none other than self. Everytime a "black person" speaks on "black issues" "black people" are called cry babies among other things that the above person didn't mention. It's not a black/white thing right? If it's not that then you would be able to discuss said subject accordingly, however you can't! The first thing "YOU" do is attack not the author of the statement but "a good amount of black people" who didn't make the statement I made it. Let the truth speak for itself. Your response simply showed how it's more than a class issue as you try and I stress try make it other than what it really is and avoid the actual problem because that actual problem you benefit from.

Black people have: BET (owned by Viacom/white people). Affirmative Action (3 points: if there truly was equality then it wouldn't be needed, white people had affirmative action before black people do a lil' research and you'll know the history to aff. act. vs. heresay, black people still have the highest rates of unemployement with aff. action)

White people have: every major media outlet, white maganizes that really only cater to white readers....

Now check what the kid says, "the only EXCUSE that would be said was that almost all tv and media is white media."

See, it's not an excuse its the truth. "We took everything from them except their language...."

Don't try to compare who has what especially when it comes to secondary things.

Let's see what White people have: They have their own language, land (stolen), religion, government, name, history, etc. etc.

Let's see what White people have stolen, denied, hid etc. etc. from Black People: Stole us from our homes, family, and land. Took our language away and gave us a bastard language. Stripped our culture away and replaced with their ways and traditions. Erased our history (to the best of their ability). Slavery existed for more years than this country's been in existence.

I can go on, but it's not neccessary (I mean it is, I just won't).

Now we'll get into the "but" part of it all. You know what's up with the but part of the convo....

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grant there are white racists out there denyin blacks a job, but in my life i met WAY more racist black people than whites.

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You met WAY more racist black people than whites....really? How do you know one racist from another? Do they walk around with a sign on their chest? And how many of those black racist that you've met, were able to directly stop you from doing something? How many of those black racist you've met, are able to deny a person a vote, a house, a loan, a job? How many of those black racist stopped you from eating in the same place as them, sleeping in the same hotel as them, set fire to your community? How many of those black racist have you met has directly effected you through education, politics, religion, medicine, law enforcement? Which one of those black racist (you've met so many of them) have the power to deny an entire group of people (white people) of fundamental needs and rights? I'll be waiting....a long time before that can get answered.

Please tell, what laws have been written by any of these black racist that you know, denying any one of you basic needs and/or rights?

That's a nice trick that you played, but "black racism" doesn't work here duke. It don't exist. There's only one of racist and that's white folk. It's your system, your people's created exlusively for them by them. Try again.

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no race deserve any special treatment.

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So please tell, why does the "white" race treat everybody so special? Special doesn't equal good either.

Is it because they are the actual "racist" problem makers? Is it because the "power" to change and effect individuals, families, communities, states, and countries is in the hand of none other than white people?

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the foundation of class is a black white thing? get outta here with that 'nigga' attitude. ever heard of the fuckin fuedal system? how fuckin long ago was that? i can be pretty sure that black people werent in mind when they thought of that shit. poor people were.

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Here it goes....get outta here with that "nigga" attitued. It becomes more and more obvious everyday. Please tell, what exactly is a 'nigga'? And what is a 'nigga' attitude? And please tell, who exactly derived the word 'nigga' or any one of it's variations?

Fuedal system had basically serfs and landlords. Serfs however were not slaves, and had certain rights. Serfs, also had land, a language, their own god, their own customs/traditions, basic rights, etc. etc. There's a difference. Also, during the times of fuedalism, you'll find that "black people" were in Europe also. Another example of "white supremecy" the lack of basic historical facts and honesty! Why? Because history has been "white washed."

Now, since this person has a problem with "a good amount of black people" being cry babies, please tell all the white people to stop crying over things that happened in the past. Naw, that won't happen because it's class thing and nobody wants to mention the other classes besides the rich, middle class, and the poor....the other class is the black class(that includes all original people too!).

On second thought, you're right, it's not a black/whtie issue, it is a class issue....it's just nobody wants to talk about that "other" class in truth for some reason.

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Originally Posted by Visions Unseen

so your own personal experience should define a whole race of people? How many corperations that got rich off of slavery and all that free labor are still around today? Four hundred years of enslavement was bound to have reprecussions. Conversations such as these tend to sweep the historical context of the situation under the rug. Sure everyone who was a slave has been dead for a while now but ideas are alot harder to kill than any one human.

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Then everyone who is/was a slave is not dead....if the idea is still alive then somebody has to manifest the idea.

Just because it's written on some paper doesn't mean it manifested in reality. Paper is paper and life is life....

For all of you who picture slaves with chains on, you got it twisted. Slaves didn't walk around in chains...they were slaves!!!

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Originally Posted by Black Man

Then everyone who is/was a slave is not dead....if the idea is still alive then somebody has to manifest the idea.

Just because it's written on some paper doesn't mean it manifested in reality. Paper is paper and life is life....

For all of you who picture slaves with chains on, you got it twisted. Slaves didn't walk around in chains...they were slaves!!!

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No arguments here, the racist ideas persist and the other side of that coin is that those racist ideas have to have a target for their hatred.

I do think Hip-Hop is helping (or atleast has helped) to change the youths mindset out there.

Any ideas on how to speed up the healing process?

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Originally Posted by Visions Unseen

so your own personal experience should define a whole race of people? .

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never said it did,