If there's over 20 tracks I'm expecting at least 5 skits a la Fishscale
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If there's over 20 tracks I'm expecting at least 5 skits a la Fishscale
48 minutes, given Rae’s 17 was 40 minutes of which 5-6 skits, I am guessing an outro and at least one more skit to make it 7-8 and then probably lots of 2 minute tracks like Rae’s as well. It’s quite an accomplishment for 22 tracks to stay under an hour. As a reference, original SC was 21 tracks 64 minutes.
I prefer Trife as a ghostwriter of choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by CL2coming
Yeah, Trife is the better choice for that.. He has been producing also.. Would love to hear some of his production on this album.
Cant believe its acually being released in August... Hoping to forget the last album being the worst of all
For sure, I was just being facetious. When Wigs took over from Trife there was a significant decline in GhostÂ’s rhymes and whole delivery.Quote:
Originally Posted by SL33
I donÂ’t care who wrote this project, IÂ’m just hyped to hear it finally!
Can we agree that Wiggs took over ghostwritting sometimes around Big Dough Rehab?
unpopular opinion: im not big on that album. something about it doesn't connect for meQuote:
Originally Posted by CL2coming
Its nothing wrong with most of the songs of the album. For me it feels like its three four album ideas they mashed together. It feels a little to much all over the place like it lacks direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by RADIOACTIVE MAN
Shit always sounded like a cheap mix & master to me. Peak MP3 eraQuote:
Originally Posted by RADIOACTIVE MAN
Next to the Mac volume sounds on the Rae song.
Lack of cohesion. Doom songs, pop songs, YouTube-like mashups with Biggie and the Clan, 30 seconds souls samples...Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee3
Yessir!Quote:
Originally Posted by CL2coming
see to me its easily ghosts most cohesive album since rza daysQuote:
Originally Posted by SL33
doom. Pete rock. Dilla joints all cohesive to me. Actual wu sounding tracks like ragu. Dooms shit on bpw time.
and then some big bangers byjustblaze lewis parker and moss
9 milli bros was cool but not like legendary or anything
the biggie remix idk why that was even on there
and yes a couple traditional rnb tracks which was always ghostface to me
its imo the finest commercial traditional rap album of the era. Especially from def jam. Only thing that couod make it better was replacing cut joints like chunky n charlie brown
Entirely forgettable and the definition of mediocrity, to me. Came out during a completely lacklustre period in hip hop, so people thought it was something special.Quote:
Originally Posted by RADIOACTIVE MAN
I found ghost's verses on the new rae album pretty unbearable. Just sounds like he's trying waaaaayyyy too hard. Very unnatural. Dude's just been going through the motions for a very long thyme now.
Will check out the album, but have no expectations for it. Will prob b the final nail in the coffin, as he's prob just slapping the sc2 title on another collection of forgettable tracks, for hype.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DNB8q...xldDU2bWZsc2Jl
Another snippet from SC2. Probably the next single.
Reminds me of White Linen Affair from BDR album
Yes i hearthe sample in white linen. That track was co produced by scram so maybe this one is tooQuote:
Originally Posted by Teejay
this is… a take. Lol. Completely forgettable?Quote:
Originally Posted by noel411
at its core
underwater
whip me with a strap
shakey dog
ragu
kilo
the champ
clipse of doom
be easy
are pretty much as classic as solo tracks get for ghost
its not perfect. But… mediocre? Forgetable? What are the other ghost albums? Its one of ghosts most popular albums with star studded production team of classic beats lol. Half of which came from certified classic ughh albums.
fishscale blows away all post 2006 ghost albums fairly easily. If its mediocre thsn all ghost albums after are like 2/10 which isnt the case. Wu fans wiyh their “classic” “mediocre””trash” ratings lol
I mean i know it has some pop shit yall still mad at but yooooo lol wu corp with the old takes today lol. 2006 wasnt weak whatsoever. Nor the era. Got like half a dozen “good-great” wu albums in 4 years.
i mean even if it was. Ghost dropped 2 albums that year.. both pretty highly regarded. If you cant find a gem in those 2, you may just not be a ghost fan afterall lol
He's using AI too. Ugghhh
Personally I’ve never been a fan of “Fishscale”. I was around 24 when that came out. I like “The Pretty Toney Album”, and I’ve liked albums since then like “OB4CL2” or even “Banks & Steelz”. But “Fishscale” just never connected. But I knew a lot of 18-19 year olds who liked “Fishscale” almost like I liked “OB4CL” or “Ironman” growing up. So I get it.
Somebody pointed out that it sounds as if Ghost his voice has been destroyed by years of continuous touring. Made sense to me. He's 50+ yelling in the mic like he is a teenager trying to sound hard. More surprised that noone coaches him on that. Which does not bode well for what is to come. The Mac & Lobster track is more like Mac & Cheese: You need to eat something quick, on a budgetQuote:
Originally Posted by noel411
The hype for Fishscale and Ghost was peak at this point. Everybody was talking about. Nobody is talking about it today, or playing it.Quote:
this is… a take. Lol. Completely forgettable?
at its core
underwater
whip me with a strap
shakey dog
ragu
kilo
the champ
clipse of doom
be easy
are pretty much as classic as solo tracks get for ghost
Underwater is nice, but rethread of The Forest. A Kilo is nice, but it gets annoying after a while. Not something you would put on at any time. Champ was a banger. Clipse of Doom sounded like a cheap MP3 remix from the internet. Be Easy, nice single. Shakey Dog, I still fuck with Maxine. Whip me with a Strap, just a Child's Play 2.0
Shit, Fishscale did not even have a video. Or I do not remember it.
It had a generic, BET friendly video of Back Like That.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet Set
Liu Kang winsQuote:
Originally Posted by Jet Set
FATALITY
I love that track though, personally.
They used to play the shit out of Back Like That and remix featuring Kanye West in Spring/Summer 2006. Felt so good to have Wu Tang in regular rotation on Hot 97, especially since Ghostface was the catalyst for them getting banned from Hot 97
I don't listen to albums cos they have a few good tracks. I listen to them because i like the whole album. I do not and never did like fishscale. It's an absolute drag. There was a lot of hype for it at the thyme and i expected to like it, and believe it or not i really tried to.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForensikZ
Couldn't do it tho. Undeniably mediocre, to me.
Of the tracks u mentioned, ragu and shakey dog were real nice. Assuming shakey dog was the name of the opening track, which i think it was. The others were either ok or i don't remember them. Hit me with a strap i didn't like one bit.
As far as his other albums, i only really listen to his first 2, which r of course classic. Pretty toney was cool too. I fuck with that.
Fishscale was the era i lost interest in new hip hop and stopped following it, so any later ghost albums i heard were with little interest n didn't get more than a few listens.
The album did good numbers if I can remember correctly.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Daniel Davis
Btw, signs were everywhere that the Wu should have teamed with Kanye for the album released in that era.
I mean its your opinion is what it isQuote:
Originally Posted by noel411
but the production of the album, 1/4 are classic 90s beats off rip. With 90s legends closest to rza you can get status all over it. It was so well recieved, they took the b sides and released them too the same year lol.
i guess… to me like, if you only listen to first 2 ghosts and they classics… you ONLY listen to classics. Whats a good album then if fishscale quality is mediocrity? Im curious what you would csll a good but not great album. Fs is 4 mic on worst day. there are not just two good songs on fs thats CRAZY talk on wu forum lol thise 2 are CLASSIC ghost songs too. Along with a handful of others
fishscale mediocre…. Then wtf are the other albums lol. Ghosts “flawless” solo run was capped with fishscale. Ghost is universally known to have dropped the best 5 first solos of any rapper. And people in here acting like noone listened to or liked it and onlu has 2 great albums now? So why is ghost on solo goat lists? It aint for bpw or p toney lol (bpw my true 3rd fav and imo better than fs)
maybe in europe. wtf am i seeing in here lmao. Yall KILLING MEQuote:
Originally Posted by Jet Set
my heart HURTS. Ugh! I need to go back to staten island and wash off at the dirty beach rn lol
noones playiny fishscale or talking about it? Fishscale is by far, the most popular wu solo post 2000. If nooones talking about fishscale, noones talking about any of them minus the starting 8/9. Fishscale is easily the mosy talked sbout wu solo post wu tang. Ghost was making top ten goat lists BECAUSE of fishscale wtf you mean “noones talking about it”?
people not asking for doomstarks still? Thats BECAUSE of fishscale lol. I mean yall know who doom is right. Yall see him in top tens today? Him dilla n pete all types of wu albums AFTER. Doomstarks exists because of fishscale. The hype of them working together is based on it. People ARENT asking for doomstarks? Do yall post anywhere else or have hip hop friends irl?
if you google “ top rated ghost albums” itll never be listed any lower than 3. Sometimes 2. And even 1.
clipse of doom is rain blood from mf grimms downfall of iblys. Beat was made in early 90s by subroc and lost before ghost got it. Thats like saying 36 chambers sounds like shit compared to 8d so all those songs are a nope. Cmon bro.
We listen to wutang. Half their stuff sounds like SHIT and unmixed. Wasnt a problem when we bumped lin broz or sunz of man mixtapes and we listened to 5 dozen different wu fam REDUNDANT copied shit but we shitting on ghost for making 2 songs on childhood /cartoons now? Albums of random verses on songs that make NO sense. Yet we shitting on real stories… fleshed out and alive. REAL GHOST SONGS.
maxine and childsplay arent 260/all that i got is you knockoffs? Shouldny u now dislike those for same reason?
How many songs about swords n guns yall listen to but looking for reasons to shit on CLASSIC ghost songs. People are DYING for that ghost for supreme 2…. Yet youre shading fishscale for retreading CLASSIC territory only time in his career?
— Yet were all waiting for OUATIS, an album of era specific retreads?
So i assume you dont fuck with publicity/fame/animal planey/etc since gza retreads themes? Or any wu 10 man copy pyn. Or gm for copying early wu. Or Once for retreading entire vibes. There can only be one?
This response was the most suprising. So you dont want none of that on supreme 2? Im almost positive if i search supreme 2 every thread will be asking or those EXACT things. Yet its a minus on fishscale? Why? Because no rza? Lol. Again you dont gotta like the album. But jusy say you dont like the production. These reasons???? ….
Wu fans truly will never be happy until they remake 36. And then theyll say its too clean or not dirty enough. Or it retread too much or not enough. fishscale is by far ghosts most popular album post supreme. By far. Far and away. Like… so much so ya opening statement is just… not true lol
ifyall dont like that, idk why yall even in this thread to expect more. Because ghost hasny dropped an album better in 15 years. Idk what your expecting. dont want retreads of styles like stream of concious / fantasy / childhood ghost apparently at all... yet when we dont get it… i GUARANTEE… people will be saying “wheres it at? Im tired of big doe rehab wiggs sheek ghost”. Its already happening lol
So idk how you expect anything of wu if ya only want one sound, but then not to retread … even on pt 2… Lol. Ehhhh. Im almost lost tryna understand this critique. other guy i could get. Cuz he just didnt like it. But these complaints? No. Im lost tryna figure out what you want from 2 if those things are minuses on fs.. maybe if you said you dont like doom / dilla beats and prefer old wu. Id get it. But this?
not tryna be a dick. Im just sooooo confused. I had to get that off im sorry
Lots of great points in the post above me. Shout out to ForensikZ. I’d pick it apart, but I don’t have time right now. lol
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DNBkn...czYXRiaWJrdw==
Looks like Ghost is shooting an actual video for Rap Kingpin.
I enjoyed the hell out of Fishscale and More Fish, the disappointment I felt when Big Doe Kebab dropped though
The new snippet was taken down it seems
That’s weird. I posted a one sentence review of it yesterday a few posts back. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by hiphopjunky
How was the snippet? Rap Kingpin is ok....nothing crazy imoQuote:
Originally Posted by Teejay
It was only like 30 seconds long so it’s tough to judge it. Ghost sounded great, I know a lot of people on here don’t agree with that, but I want to hear 2025 Ghost, we already got plenty 90s Ghost. This is always how I imagined him sounding in the future while listening to him in the 90s. Loud, angry, and aggressive. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by corky831
Beat was decent. Like I said before, gave me White Linen Affair vibes, tempo and sample wise.
A few good but not great albums from the wu camp, imo...immobilarity. Rae's new album. Pro tools. Uncontrolled substance. Golden arms redemption. Pretty Toney Album.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForensikZ
I've never seen anybody say ghost has the goat 5 album solo run, but I've been out of hip hop circles for prob almost 20 years. Crazy to think people say that, but i really don't care. It doesn't have any bearing on my own opinion.
As far as ghost being considered the goat or whatever, it's like anything else...a few people said it once n then millions of sheep will echo that opinion for all eternity. That's how being a human works. Personally I've never been able to comprehend how he'd enter such discussions. Probably moreso than anybody else who commonly gets mentioned in such discussions, at least in respectable hip hop communities.
Again tho, i really don't care about other people's opinions.
Btw i listened to it today. First thyme in forever. It's better than i thought, but still not something I'd return to. Can certainly understand y people would rate it reasonably highly, but to say it's exceptional still seems like a stretch in any case.
https://www.qobuz.com/fr-fr/album/su.../msq0wi7xtkluaQuote:
01 00:00:45 < 2mn
02 00:02:03
03 00:02:30
04 00:03:56
05 00:01:23 < 2mn
06 00:01:55 < 2mn
07 00:01:27 < 2mn
08 00:02:33
09 00:00:18 < 2mn
10 00:01:34 < 2mn
11 00:02:25
12 Rap Kingpin 00:02:44
13 00:01:17 < 2mn
14 00:03:12
15 00:02:49
16 00:03:12
17 00:02:40
18 00:02:50
19 00:00:31 < 2mn
20 00:03:29
21 00:03:54
22 00:01:08 < 2mn
It makes 9 tracks under 2 minutes.
Wow. I like the enthusiasm but you need to calm down. First you never take Noel seriously. Everyone should know that by now.That goes for most Australians. But the dickriding Ghost fans do is insane. BPW is absolute utter embarrassing garbage. And the "original" cut is trash too, except the Sun is great. The extent Wu fans try to rationalize that album and Immobilarity as "good" is crazy.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForensikZ
Pretty Tony is a fun album that can be said to be good. Fishcale is weird. It can be said to be good but it's overhyped and forgettable. It's lazy with Shaky Dog having the Pitbull Fights beat and recycled Doom beats. 9 mili brothers does the impossible, most of them on it and it's utterly eh. But fans always give Ghpst a pass for his bullshit. It does have nice tracks. Be Easy is one of the funnest songs that doesnt get enough credit.
OBFCL2 blows Fishscale out of the water in both quality and popularity. It's kinda subjective but Gza has the best solo discography. Not as hyped as Ghost but overall quality is much better. He doesn't have a bad album. Beneath the Surface is an underrated album mostly bc of the stupid skits, not as bad as Tical 2000 but close. Too bad Gza hasn't gave a fuck about rapping for almost 2 decades.
Agreed (prolly) cause GZA kept it "half short & twice strong"! Respectfully, GFK has more albums and some come of like "work for hire" projects for someone else's vision...Quote:
Originally Posted by cd
Yeah dont think BPW is classic either and rate "Pretty Toney" as personal FAV (though not his best).
Lol I'm one of those who defend "Immobilarity".
Ultimately, like you said, art is subjective! PEACE
This whole post is hilarious :lmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by cd
BPW trash?
Pretty Tony just ok?
Fish scale overrated?
Somebody needs to lighten up on the crack...just saying.
Ghost deserves the credit he gets, and is honestly better than he's considered. If the business end of his career was better handled, you would be hearing more GOAT talk. Even the albums I don't like, I can say they all show some sort of creative commitment to do something specific, interesting or new. You don't really get that with rappers too often and when you get it, it's an art school douche who's pretending to be different.Quote:
Originally Posted by noel411
Pretty Toney is better than it's given credit. Fishscale is great, I don't listen to it, but if someone does I get why. I actually listen to 10x More Fish more than Fishscale. But More Fish has a completely unique creative direction compared to Fishscale which is crazy thinking its basically left over tracks.
If someone gives Ironman, SC, Bulletproof, Pretty Toney, Fishscale back to back, they deserve their credit.
So the smart money says at least 6 of those are skits and most likely 8 or even all 9. Not one track over 4 minutes, disappointing. 5 tracks with a decent length, hope one of those is with GZA :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jokostyle
like i said bro im not mad at it. Its your opinion. Its the blanket statements like “its not popular , noone listens to it” (not you who said that i know) that had me going in that direction. It was popular enough to get ghost on billboards top 10 mcs and have them do retro how “classics” made articles. there were few if any ughh meets DEF JAM street/pop sensibility type records of its caliber.Quote:
Originally Posted by noel411
im a huge fan of immobilarity too. Half the album is fire imo and some or raes best solo work (sneakers, casablanca,100’rounds, live from ny, real life) rza beats or not.
but golden arms?… ehhhhhhhhh… handful of FIRE. Handful of good. Enough trash you gotta make two tripsmto the garbage can. Imo of course :). But like immob… the strong tracks were REALLY strong
i could see not rocking with album. But not recognizing its status or quality … idk
im not tryna shit on anyones opinions, just dig deeper on the actual art while we all here, to discuss it instead of saying “eh. Mediocre” and not saying why. I think we all want sc2 to be fire. I just feel so many of us expect different things i wan a know what people wanna hear
Half my critique wasnt even about noels. But you say dont take it seriously and then rattle that off.Quote:
Originally Posted by cd
ob4cl2 hype was IN PART…. Built up off fishscales success. Yes it had buzz. But it was ghost crushing that made people go ok maybe this will be something. Similar prod team, Dilla, pete rock, moss… all on cl2… “return” to ughh aesthetic, wus reach into ughh from the pop albums of tical0/lex/ptoney, etc…
cl2 and fs are both 4/4.5 mic albums / potential 5s with the cut material. (Add grandmasters to make my top 3 post 2000 wu) Neither album blows the other away. Both are the LAST great pieces of work they gave us. Both albums are rated EQUALLY online and have the same metacritic score. Yet fishscsle got billboard doing “15 year anniversary classic” revisits and had a REAL single with radioplay on def jam with most popular rap artist in the world.
It was hyped over fishscsle… because it was CUBAN LINX 2… not “raekwon 4th solo”. If you look up the word classic with both you will see fishscale articles not cl2.
Btw… cl2 is MY FAVORITE post prime wu album… but for years elsewhere ive been challenged over it being better thsn fs. Regularly. So no i dont believe it blowing out fs on anything… especially popularity. They are about equal in all regards, which is why def jam rushed to release additional records after both (more fish/ wu massacre)
so shakeydog isnt good because anothersong used same sample 3 years prior? Welcome to wutang. Rza used the same samples 3-4x on classics same year. If a beat is dope. Its dope. I dont put arbitrary rules on shit. Idk if ya noticed… but both new sc2 songs use 2 old ghost samples he redid.
i mean your shitting on fs for reusing beats and samples…. And hypinh cl2???? Uhhh
pete rock put out the sonnys missing beat on his solo before cl2 dropped
the dilla beats had been floating on dilla beat tapes for years
canal street… been used half a dozen times atp. Fat joe i beleive had a hit with it
some of the best tracks were years old on it when we heard it.
what about gza? He used the same sample on two diff albums… and they were like singles lol. Stay in line and the car song. THAT was lazy. Not the shakeydog sample being replayed on 2 totally diff dope beats.
so no idgaf if ghost wanted used doom beats because its GHOST and DOOM… 2 legends built for each other. Old or not. Tell me WHY its not good. Beyond “beats old”. Ghosts pen was moving with doom. Thats what i care about. But if you dont like bpw… i could see why you wouldnt like those doom beats.
Both albums cut to death i dont judge artists based on financial fuckups of the label if music exists thats fire but not used. Bpw and p toney are light fun wu albums. The best ones. I know pop sensibility irks you guys but relax a lil and have some fun.
worst songs on cl2 are not better than worst of fs. Those BT songs were wack. Im not not huge fan of jellyfish or family affair either on fs they were boring imo but im not gon shit on it for “being redundent” in thread where we asking for all those styles on sc2