Views On Islam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Charging Soldier

Your implications are judgement passing. And you continue to do so even in that last post.

By implying that my memory is selective, your passing a judgement.

---

It's not an implication. You make it seem as if I said what I said for no reason at all, in fact, you wouldn't have anything to say regarding it, if you hadn't just decided to keep some shit stirred up and remind me of what I said, all the while leaving out (unless you typed it in invisible font) what brought on my response to begin with. Again, it's an observation. You deliberately made it seem like all I do is attack people with no foundation to do so, don't make me go back and repost what you typed to further make my point. If all you're gonna do is sling mud, I'm just gonna ignore you because you're obviously bored and in despereate need for another go 'round.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Black Man

why are you people trying to use wu members to justify something as if you know them.

---

Why do you deny all the facts as if you were a child being told the right thing, the whole while he has his fingers stuck in his ears and sayin', "lalalalalalalalalala". You're hilarious, you try to argue a point and then run from other people's statements.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Black Man

Let's take a look at the words of the Prophet which confirm the orthodox belief that Allah will be seen by the righteous. The tradition is related of the Prophet answerreing a concern from among his companions on whether ornot they will see Allah in Paradise. The traditin goes:

"Some persons asked the Apostle of Allah: Shall we see our Lord on the day of the resurrection? the Apostle of Allah answered: Would you importune anyone with such a question regarding the moon in a night of full moon, or concerning the sun on a cloudless day? They asnwered: No. He said: In the same way you will see your Lord..."

Reported by Ahmad ibn Nasru'l-Khuza'i that teh Prophet said again, "Ye shall see your Lord in the day of judgement, as ye see the moon."

Al-Nawawi, author of Forty Hadith, says, "The postion of the PEOPLE OF THE SUNNAH is that seeing Allah is possible andnot absurd."

the people of the Sunnah are the original followers of the prophet who transmitted his teachings.

The verse that modern orthodox, those who were originally heterodox, quote in their attempt to make Allah immaterial being that is invisible is Surah 2:3 where Allah is referred to as Al-Ghaib. The muslim writers of today deceptively translate that word as "Unseen." However, that word does not mean "unseen" in arabic it means "absent" or "to withdraw ones presence from." ALLAH is not here described by the Quran as an invisible being, but as one who has made himself absent until the day of judgment at which time he will make his presence known again.

George F. Moor, in his History of Religion, "The commonidea of God was crudely anthropomorphic. Taking the words of the koran in their natural sense, men imagined God sitting upon a throne in heaven, a being with hands and feet, eyes and ears; a body, therefore, and some doctors of repute did not hesitate to say a body of flesh and blood."

In the polemic of Jahiz (772-872) against the Nabita, which is another name for the Hashwiyya, he says of them: "But the Nabita...insisted: He is a body and it ascribed form....to Him and declared anyone who believes in the beatific vision (seeing Allah in Paradise) without 'Tajsim' (acknowledging God has a body)...to be a heretic. Again most maintain that God's word is excellent and clear, evidence and proof...that if He wished to add to it, He could; and subtract from it, he could....The acts of disobedience of this community had never exceeded sin and error...until the Nabita and their followers, THE MASSES, appeared. Now the PREVAILING trend of the generation is Kufr, that is anthropomorphism an ddeterminism."

Hisham ibn Hakim said: "Allah has a body, defined, broad, high and long, of equal dimensions, radiating with light, of a broad measure in its three dimensions...."

---

You really should stop pretending to know about Islam, because you don't. All you do in your so-called "study", which just smells of numerous copying and pasting, is proving that all you want to do is try your hardest to find something wrong with the doctrine. Your opinion/theory only matters to you and you alone. And whoever is sad enough to want to think like you, if you can really even call it thinking. Like I said earlier, only those with belief and faith will truly understand. Everyone else is only guessing and most of the time doing a poor job at it. We know the history of the Aramaic language, Imperial, Sidious and Hellspawn laid it down in full already. You know damn well, or at least you SHOULD know, that when languages evolve, so do the meanings of some words. However, Arabic and Hebrew, much like Spanish and Italian, are still VERY closely related and you'll find that some words that sound the same still have similar if not IDENTICAL meanings. Your precious English language is really a bunch of Latin words and phrases re-done, so save your pseudo-scholarly posts for people who'll actually be impressed by 'em.

You're not making a statement about ISLAM, you're making a statement about HIS-LAM. Taking what you want to take from The Books and leaving, if not flat out RUNNING from, the rest of them. Plus, the more you type, the more your agenda is made plain. Sid asked what we thought about it. It's o.k. to incorporate a few bits of history to back up how you feel and why, but to just toot your own horn for the sake of doing so....AGAIN....is just old and tired. Not to mention pointless.

You think power and truth lie in technicalities. Maybe in your physical realm they actually do, but don't get it twisted, Al-Islam starts with the unseen to make those who want to understand, further see the truth behind what's seen.

Quote:

---

You really should stop pretending to know about Islam, because you don't. All you do in your so-called "study", which just smells of numerous copying and pasting, is proving that all you want to do is try your hardest to find something wrong with the doctrine.

---

yup i'm cutting and pasting so what! you still are unable to prove the cut and past method in error.

Quote:

---

Your opinion/theory only matters to you and you alone.

---

it must matter to you because you respond to it.

Quote:

---

Like I said earlier, only those with belief and faith will truly understand.

---

who are you in the islamic world? nobody important. you have no authority, you are not an islamic scholar...all you can do is belief, accept things without actually knowing. this is know the ledge which comes from the word knowledge which means to know.

Quote:

---

Everyone else is only guessing and most of the time doing a poor job at it.

---

that's why you should stop guessing because you're doing a piss poor job of it.

Quote:

---

We know the history of the Aramaic language, Imperial, Sidious and Hellspawn laid it down in full already.

---

no, they didn't lay down anything. i showed the reality of the true meaning, the original meaning, the root of the words islam, muslim, and allah and still you have nothing but guesses to dispute because you rely on religious connotations which the prophet himself wouldn't agree with, which by the way, i again showed how the first muslims, the prophet and his companions understood allah to be man.

Quote:

---

You know damn well, or at least you SHOULD know, that when languages evolve, so do the meanings of some words.

---

yeah i do know that and when the prophet used the words muslim, islam, and allah, he didn't utilize the definitions that are used by these johnny come lately muslims in this day and time.

just like the early christian church was tampered with and the teachings changed, the same holds true with al'islam.

Quote:

---

However, Arabic and Hebrew, much like Spanish and Italian, are still VERY closely related and you'll find that some words that sound the same still have similar if not IDENTICAL meanings. Your precious English language is really a bunch of Latin words and phrases re-done, so save your pseudo-scholarly posts for people who'll actually be impressed by 'em.

---

again, you're straying away again. why are you bringing up english when it's so-called arabic words that are in question? you don't want to study the etymology of these words you want to accept on face value the connotation of these words.

Quote:

---

You're not making a statement about ISLAM, you're making a statement about HIS-LAM.

---

that's what you practice right? his-lam. if the muslim world got it so right and it's so holy (not diluted, mixed, or tampered with) why are there so many sects to that "one" religion?

Quote:

---

Taking what you want to take from The Books and leaving, if not flat out RUNNING from, the rest of them. Plus, the more you type, the more your agenda is made plain. Sid asked what we thought about it. It's o.k. to incorporate a few bits of history to back up how you feel and why, but to just toot your own horn for the sake of doing so....AGAIN....is just old and tired. Not to mention pointless.

---

only a fool like yourself would take a person providing information as tooting your own horn without investigation. a person will only toot their own horn when they know they're right and the person who says another person is tooting their own horn knows they can't combat the information provided for they/you do not want to question as so many blind followers are scared to do, because you just might find something out that you don't want to really know. like Allah is the supreme being.....BLACKMAN!!!

Quote:

---

You think power and truth lie in technicalities.

---

what you call a technicality, i may call being precise. you're to lazy to be presice so you're satisfied with accepting the technicality.

Quote:

---

Maybe in your physical realm they actually do, but don't get it twisted, Al-Islam starts with the unseen to make those who want to understand, further see the truth behind what's seen.

---

yeah, allah is not unseen, he is seen and heard everywhere.

again, according to the sayings of the prophet, the prophet told the people they would be able to see (while still alive in the physical) ALLAH just as clear as they see a full moon during a clear night, or the sun during a clear day.

yeah yeah yeah, keep saying i don't know about islam blah blah blah....

Quote:

---

no, they didn't lay down anything. i showed the reality of the true meaning, the original meaning, the root of the words islam, muslim, and allah and still you have nothing but guesses to dispute because you rely on religious connotations which the prophet himself wouldn't agree with, which by the way, i again showed how the first muslims, the prophet and his companions understood allah to be man.

---

there's so many different verses in the Quran that say the exact opposite of what you're sayin here. I'd quote 'em but I'm at work but you've never answered my question, where was the black man when the earth was created?

There are verces in the Quran that say, this is insturction and this guidence, and this is a warning for man, and their are others that say, "You are Allah".
It's like in Buhdism where you start out a buddist, but the eventual goal is to reach Nirvana and become a Buddha. So with Islam, Its the way to God.
Samurai7Assassin used to show people that Islam has it's roots in Egyptian, or Kemetic cultures, and Amir Fatir demontrates on his www.amirfatir.tripod.com that Mohamed was a student at GIZA.

Go here:
http://oracle20-20.com/magazine/2007/0107/quran_pt9.php

Then tell me what it says, please.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by allANDRES

There are verces in the Quran that say, this is insturction and this guidence, and this is a warning for man, and their are others that say, "You are Allah".
It's like in Buhdism where you start out a buddist, but the eventual goal is to reach Nirvana and become a Buddha. So with Islam, Its the way to God.
Samurai7Assassin used to show people that Islam has it's roots in Egyptian, or Kemetic cultures, and Amir Fatir demontrates on his www.amirfatir.tripod.com that Mohamed was a student at GIZA.

Go here:
http://oracle20-20.com/magazine/2007/0107/quran_pt9.php

Then tell me what it says, please.

---

This is one of the things it said in referring to Quran 51:56
This creator god is therefore a slave master. This is no spirit being. This is a being who walks, had hands and feet, who eats, accepts food offering which sometimes has to be cooked and even demands the first born of animals and humans to be offered up as sacrifices to him. Sometimes they were commanded to give the Lord salt so he could season his food.


The actual verse from the Surah 51:56-57

I have only created Jinns and men that they may serve Me. No Sustenance do I require of them nor do I require that they should feed Me.


What he claims the verse to mean is exposed as a falsehood in the very following verse.

Some so-called "muslims" are not real muslims by definition, they are hypocrites.


Some verses from the Quran which are broken by "muslims" are:


:clap: Thieves do not have their hands cut-off, but are made to work until they return that which is stolen (12:75)...


*; }:T No one is allowed to be killed or stoned for adultery (24:2)...





:spin: In Islam, music, statues, gold and silk are all Lawful (5:48-49, 7:31-32, 16:116), Vs. Sunni beliefs forbidding silk & gold for men, and forbidding music & statues for all...




:'( In Islam, males and females are not required to be Circumcised (32:7), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings requiring all males to be circumcised and females in some cases...


:)9:( In Islam, War can only be declared in cases of self-defence - no offensive (2:190), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings allowing raids and attacks on any people who are considered non-Muslim by their standard.




:learning: In Islam, people are acknowledged as being diverse and each is to be respected for his/her level of spiritual growth. A Submitter ‘Muslim’ must work to attain the status of Faithful ‘Mumin’ (49:14), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings that all followers of their religion must think, act, and even look the same (cult syndrome)...




:cop: }:T In Islam, absolute Freedom of Religion is allowed (2:256, 40; 109; 18:29; 88:21-22), Vs. Sunni and Shia requiring apostates to be killed and rejecting the practice of other faiths...




*; In Islam, Monogamy is the only allowed form of marriage/relationship (4:20), Vs. Sunnis where a man may be a polygamist simply if he can afford to, and Shia which allow sex for pleasure (prostitution)...

You are right. There are a lot of things that dont make sence in that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Black Man

yup i'm cutting and pasting so what! you still are unable to prove the cut and past method in error.



it must matter to you because you respond to it.



who are you in the islamic world? nobody important. you have no authority, you are not an islamic scholar...all you can do is belief, accept things without actually knowing. this is know the ledge which comes from the word knowledge which means to know.



that's why you should stop guessing because you're doing a piss poor job of it.



no, they didn't lay down anything. i showed the reality of the true meaning, the original meaning, the root of the words islam, muslim, and allah and still you have nothing but guesses to dispute because you rely on religious connotations which the prophet himself wouldn't agree with, which by the way, i again showed how the first muslims, the prophet and his companions understood allah to be man.



yeah i do know that and when the prophet used the words muslim, islam, and allah, he didn't utilize the definitions that are used by these johnny come lately muslims in this day and time.

just like the early christian church was tampered with and the teachings changed, the same holds true with al'islam.



again, you're straying away again. why are you bringing up english when it's so-called arabic words that are in question? you don't want to study the etymology of these words you want to accept on face value the connotation of these words.



that's what you practice right? his-lam. if the muslim world got it so right and it's so holy (not diluted, mixed, or tampered with) why are there so many sects to that "one" religion?



only a fool like yourself would take a person providing information as tooting your own horn without investigation. a person will only toot their own horn when they know they're right and the person who says another person is tooting their own horn knows they can't combat the information provided for they/you do not want to question as so many blind followers are scared to do, because you just might find something out that you don't want to really know. like Allah is the supreme being.....BLACKMAN!!!



what you call a technicality, i may call being precise. you're to lazy to be presice so you're satisfied with accepting the technicality.



yeah, allah is not unseen, he is seen and heard everywhere.

again, according to the sayings of the prophet, the prophet told the people they would be able to see (while still alive in the physical) ALLAH just as clear as they see a full moon during a clear night, or the sun during a clear day.

yeah yeah yeah, keep saying i don't know about islam blah blah blah....

---

OH man you're at it again? just drop it, you aint convincin/foolin anyone :nonono:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hellspawn

OH man you're at it again? just drop it, you aint convincin/foolin anyone :nonono:

---

HELLSPAWN IN '08 YOU MOTHERBEECHES!!!!!!!!

Mohammed, The Man and His Faith

By Tor Andrea

Clear some things up:

Page16.

So the ancient paganism of Arabia may in general be regarded as an undeveloped polythesim, in which a development had just barely begun which would have gradually produced a pantheon consisting of a hieracrhy of gods, formed by association togeather a number of indempended individual divninites. Nevertheless, some of these divinities stand out above the multitude of of local dieties, and reveal a more definite personal nature and a uniquely dfined function. This is tru first of all , of the threee goddeses of Mecca: Manat, Allat, and Al 'Uzza. Their cult was of the greatest antiquity...

Page 19.

Ibn Sa'd, an historian of the eigth century, relate that at the time when Mhammed permitted some of the faithrull to migrate to Abyssinsia, to escape the persecuton which threatened him and his folowers, he strongly desired not the recieve any revalations tha t might estragne his coutrymen. He was anxious to win them, and he did succeed in in reaching an understnding with them.. One day he was reading togeather with them at the Kaba, reading theme Sura 53: "By the Star when it setteth.' When he came to the pasage: 'Do ye behold Allat and Al 'Uzza , and also Mannat, the third Idol?'- which now concludes: ' What ? Sshall ye have male progeny and Allah female? This were indeed an unfair prtition!'- Satan suggested two lines to him: 'These are the exalted femailes, and truly their intercecession may be expected' Mohammed the re-read the whole Sura, and at its conculion he protrated himself and prayed, and the whole tribe of Quraish did the same. His bitter ememy, the old Walid ibn Al-Magira, who acould not bow down, took earth instead and sprinkeld it upon his head; 'We know that Allah Killeth and giveth life, createth and preserveth, but these our godessess pray to Him for us, and since you have now permitted them to share divine honours iwht HIm, whe tehrefore desier to unite with you.' The Prophet was disturbed by their words and all day he meditated a lone in his house. That evenening the angel Gabriel came to him, and the Prophet recited the Sura to him. When he came to the words sugested by Satan, the angesl asked: 'Have I tought you these two lines?' Mohamamed then realized his ereor, and said: 'I have atrtibuted to Allah wodrs which he did not reveal.'

Page. 25.

The question has been asked: How could a religion such as the ancient Arabian , which was otherwize so inadequate an dunder-developed, attain in so lofty a conception of God as is expresed in belief in the belif in Alllah? Well hausen in his day tried to explain that a being an efect of the language over thought. Allah is a contadiction of al-ilah(italics); and the name denotes simply "the God." Every tribe called his local divinity by this name. Being the only god worshiped by the members of the tribe, he did not need to be called by his name, if he possesed one. And since every tribe spoke of 'the God', and ment hterby its own tibal god, this linguistic form eventually paved the way for the belief in a supreem God commaon to all the tribes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by diggy

Some so-called "muslims" are not real muslims by definition, they are hypocrites.


Some verses from the Quran which are broken by "muslims" are:


:clap: Thieves do not have their hands cut-off, but are made to work until they return that which is stolen (12:75)...


*; }:T No one is allowed to be killed or stoned for adultery (24:2)...





:spin: In Islam, music, statues, gold and silk are all Lawful (5:48-49, 7:31-32, 16:116), Vs. Sunni beliefs forbidding silk & gold for men, and forbidding music & statues for all...




:'( In Islam, males and females are not required to be Circumcised (32:7), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings requiring all males to be circumcised and females in some cases...


:)9:( In Islam, War can only be declared in cases of self-defence - no offensive (2:190), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings allowing raids and attacks on any people who are considered non-Muslim by their standard.




:learning: In Islam, people are acknowledged as being diverse and each is to be respected for his/her level of spiritual growth. A Submitter ‘Muslim’ must work to attain the status of Faithful ‘Mumin’ (49:14), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings that all followers of their religion must think, act, and even look the same (cult syndrome)...




:cop: }:T In Islam, absolute Freedom of Religion is allowed (2:256, 40; 109; 18:29; 88:21-22), Vs. Sunni and Shia requiring apostates to be killed and rejecting the practice of other faiths...




*; In Islam, Monogamy is the only allowed form of marriage/relationship (4:20), Vs. Sunnis where a man may be a polygamist simply if he can afford to, and Shia which allow sex for pleasure (prostitution)...

---

I didn't know we had Submitters on the board. What's up? Rashad Khalifa used to live in my town. Big Submitter population.

I'm not a follower of Rashad. I take truth from wherever it is. The fact is, some so-called "muslims" follow weak hadith over the Quran which is pure.

Salaat as a physical prayer cannot be justified in Quran because the physical movements are not explained in the Quran. Allah also says the Quran is complete. Now if Quran is complete, and it does not have explanation of how to do salaat as a physical prayer, then your "salaat" is not ordaned by Allah. It is ordained by hearsayers.

Hadith means story or narration. That's basically what it is. It is a bunch of stories pased on to succeeding generations (starting about 250 yrs after Muhammads death PBUH).

A scientist did a study a few yrs ago. on peeps memories. In this study, he told people a statement. The people were then asked individually to recall the statement. They all told the statement back to the experimenter and it was faulty because their memories were faulty.

Hadith are a bunch of statements. If the people in the study could not remember the exact words of a statement over a period of minutes, how can numerous people remember with accuracy so-called statements from a Prophet over a period of 250 yrs?

And why would u follow such statements? Are those statements divine like the Quran? How can those hadiths be divine like Quran when they are divided into categories of strong hadith, weak hadith with poor narration, and hadith with no narrators?

The Quran is the only thing prophet Muhammad PBUH brought. After he brought forth Quran he died, cuz his mission was complete.

Hadith came after about 250 yrs after Prophets' death. Muhammad did not bring it others did. So do you follow the last Prophet or hearsayers who claim the prophet said things 250 yrs after his death?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz

It's not an implication. You make it seem as if I said what I said for no reason at all, in fact, you wouldn't have anything to say regarding it, if you hadn't just decided to keep some shit stirred up and remind me of what I said, all the while leaving out (unless you typed it in invisible font) what brought on my response to begin with. Again, it's an observation. You deliberately made it seem like all I do is attack people with no foundation to do so, don't make me go back and repost what you typed to further make my point. If all you're gonna do is sling mud, I'm just gonna ignore you because you're obviously bored and in despereate need for another go 'round.

---

I was just making an observation.O:|