Draw or fast trap with a monster, very few have the ability to shove a huge portion of their stack with complete air
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Draw or fast trap with a monster, very few have the ability to shove a huge portion of their stack with complete air
it obv depens on the player's styleQuote:
Originally Posted by Jeru
no prob fellas
overbets by good players tend to be value bets mostly imo. ive been experimenting with bluffshoving rivers vs decent players because of that reason lately
heres my no limit cash graph :p
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6025/grafjebu0.jpg
i think im going pro lol
hehe, if the variance and bad beats are making you crazy, playing omaha is the LAST thing you wanna do :cheerlie:Quote:
i might start focusing more on omaha pretty soon since the game is so fishy its unbelivable !!
Good thread. I have some questions. I just really started playing on the internet. I've read a ton of the books and am starting slow with freerolls and really low stuff.
One thing that is starting to annoy me is the ridiculous bad beats that always seem to happen. I watch people repeatedly go in with absolutely nothing and go on runs where they hit everything miraculously. Yesterday I made it to #80 out of 2500+ in a freeroll tournament which in the past week of these was my best. Today I was ousted in the big blind with KK losing to a 10-8 two pair on the river . Right after that I lost having 55 on the button losing to QQ after both hitting trips on the flop.
What's the best way to play these tournaments? Even playing tight but aggressive ends up with me having a decent stack but then fighting in futility against huge stacks when they hit ridiculous wins while my decent to good cards usually just die. Ha
Freerolls are crapshoots...there is no method to play with them. I usually just play the role at whatever my stack is. Your chip amount makes more of a difference in freerolls though and when you are big, people want you to bully them so they have a doubling up chance before getting knocked out. Your time means a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dissonance
If I am correct, Beautifulrock gave his freeroll strategies using 2 playing methods early in this thread.
Ah, I'll go search those posts out. Thanks. I know it's more of a crapshoot and ridiculous things happen, it's sometimes amusing and sometimes quite annoying. Those crazy luck draws to win with crap cards never seem to work for me as much as I see them work for others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prolifical ENG
Just tried omaha H/L for the first time. I did well, but it was just at the play money table. I can see how a good player could do well at that game, people just try and go for anything.
I will give a full explanation of how to play winning limit omaha hi low, this is especially helpful if you are a player on Pokerstars. Just holler at my pm box.
Fixed Omaha High Low
Confusing game? Not really, in fact once you know the rules inside and out, (YOU MUST PLAY TWO CARDS!!!) it may possibly be the easiest game to read. Why? Simple. Everybody is either playing the nuts or something close to it. With this in mind, your goal is simple. Make the nuts (high, or high and low) also known as a scoop pot. Those that waste their time going after just low, usually get chopped a million ways and aren't very successful. That said, you shouldn't ignore low altogether either. Many times when your high hand doesn't hit, you can still escape with money by stealing all or a portion of the low pot.
This is a game where you want to play behind (passive) as much as possible until you are sure you cannot lose. Raising with draws, no matter how good, is not really a good idea. Sure occasionally you win a big pot, but for the most part, you will not get the exact card you need to make the nuts, and many times you hit the nuts on the turn, only to be redrawn on the river.
So how do you win and be successful?
The way to be better than the rest of your opponents is easy. Play less, spend less, draw less, and make fewer mistakes. The less money you throw away on your losing hands the greater your profit will be in the end. Your opponents will typically play everything in low stakes to their detriment. You want to pick the best hands, and not be afraid to throw away what could be perceived as a strong hand when it doesn't match the board. You need to think two cards ahead on the flop, and think a card ahead on the turn. In Texas Hold em we count outs. In OHL we count nut outs. You can't assume any old flush or straight will win. Generally they won't. You can't assume any old full house will win. Many times the smaller boats get chewed up by larger ones, and this is where you will get killed. Aggressiveness is not a virtue in this game, like it is in Hold em. It will only make your bankroll shrink in OHL unless you get very lucky, and that luck always runs out eventually.
What starting hands do I play?
With so many possible combinations of hands, it must be hard to pick playable ones, right? WRONG. The truth is, like Hold em, you only want to play about 10% of all possible hands, perhaps less. And, we are going for the nuts right? So let's diagnose all the types of hands that can get you there.
High Pairs
GOAL: Make the top full house or quads, or in extreme cases the nuts with a set.
Aces are really the only hand you don't have to think too much about. It's good to have a deuce with them or at least one flush draw, but what you are really looking for is to hit an ace on board with a pair, for the best possible full house, or a set on board, where your aces are the best off pair to the full house. (assuming nobody has quads) Compared to Hold em, Aces are nowhere near at strong in this game. Don't get sucked into the illusion that you are holding something special. You aren't. AA4Q vs T987 is a 50/50 proposition.
Kings and Queens are pretty constricting in high low. The fact you have them makes it pretty unlikely you will hit any low at all, so the only real use for them is to try and hit the boat or quads. Chasing down King and queen high flush draws is usually bad for your health in the long run. Sure occasionally you will win with a shitty flush, but far more often you are just throwing money away. When I have terrible complimentary cards (danglers) to my queens, I usually just fold them. You should get used to doing the same. Remember, this is NOT hold em.
Jacks, Tens, and Nines are absolutely worthless in high low. Think about it. In order to make a winning hand with these you must trip the board, have the board pair, and pray nobody is playing a higher boat if an ace, king, or queen hits. It's too much to worry about. Unless you have great complimentary cards that can make the nut flush or straight, don't even think about it. Dump them.
Eights to Deuces. I strongly advise folding these in regular Omaha, much less high low. Certain hands are killers. Bottom set is a big one. unless you have good straight, nut flush, or low options to go with them, this is an autofold.
Nut Flushes
You want to play suited aces when there are good complimentary cards to go with them. Don't play just any old hand because you have one nut flush draw. You want options. Options for low, options for straights etc.
example
play
Ac 2c 3d Kd
Ad 3d 4c 5c
As Kd Qs Td
Don't play
Ah Jh 6d 8c
Ah 6h 6d 6c
As 9h 8s 5c
Nut Straights
In going after hands, straights are the bottom of the barrel. There are two big but easily avoidable obstacles to overcome, pairs and flush draws on board. If there is no pair or three suited cards on board, the best hand is always a straight unless making a straight isn't possible, in which case the best possible hand is top set. That said, here are some examples of hands you might want to play.
Play
T987 - any four running cards is pretty good
KQ98 - this two gapper is interesting, if you hit the middle two cards on the flop, you have what is known as the Maine to Spain draw, any A,K,Q,9,8,7 will make you the straight
A456 - these make great hands when low cards come because it is possible to hit the low straight and the high straight at the same time.
Low
You want to play cards that will make the wheel, ie. any combination of A,2,3,4,5 also known as "perfects" in Razz circles. I almost always play any combination of cards with ace deuce, because this is the easiest way to make the nut low. i hope along the way I can also pick up the high hand if possible. When playing, you should always assume somebody is playing an ace deuce. This will save you money if you are considering chasing a shitty low. Ace-3 Ace-4 and Ace-5 should be played less often as certain requirements need to happen to make the nut low. (gap fillers)
play
A2XX
A356
A456
AVOID
A39Q
A478
A599
Summary of playable hands
AAXX
A2XX
A34X
A456
A567
KKQJ
KK23
QQKJ
QQ23
KQ98
T987
6543
AKQJ
AK34
What to avoid
Low pairs
Low flush draws
useless danglers
bad low cards 6,7 and 8
Any idea for an initial stratagem on this limit game?
I flop top pair on early position, I check towards mid, they place a bet, but due to my unusual discretion, I don't normally believe I will have the winning hand throughout the board.
What can I infer from the initial better? Would it make a good choice to check-raise, or better off calling? What about during late position, same situation?
Thanks.
Most of the time when I flop top pair I will grind it out....most of the time that is. Not too often I will check and let the A-rag in for the turn.
I always bet when I flop top pair or a set or full house or anything...ok I win small pots sometimes but it also gives the impression I play loose...bet almost any flop and in the long run I can win more money.
In this scenario, I like to hang around and not raise, check calling would be your best bet, I'm not usually raising in limit unless i have top 2 or better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Weak
My dilemma is that I am currently unemployed, and I am trying to build a bankroll through limit poker which is like a crapshoot for me. 1-2 limit is by far, the worst game to ever play. I hate the game, and I hate the players; But it's the only way of building a bankroll. I want to ditch 1-2 limit as soon as possible, but what should my bankroll be if I upgrade to 2-5 limit? And any advice/strategy you have if you have limited funds and are unable to go in the NL tables? thanks.
Nevermind, today was the last straw... You can't ever win playing limit hold 'em
I was actually gonna say that ^^^
Not if you're playing low stake tournaments / tables due to the terrible random card generator. It gets better when you play higher stakesQuote:
Originally Posted by Weak
Where do you lot play online anyway? Pokerstars?
Phil Ivey
Phil Helmuth
Phill Laak
Phil Gordon
lmao wtf??
i knew an amateur named phil that was really good at poker
I don't believe that anybody is really "good" at poker. It is at least 80 percent luck.
There's actually a lot of skill required. You have to have good judgement skills, you have to know about the person(s) you're playing (how they play). Ever saw that World Series of Poker commercial where it says what the players think in their mind?Quote:
Originally Posted by LadiesLoveCoolDan
I am familiar with the theories, but i think that ultimately, the biggest deciding factor is whether or not you get good cards.
^never played poker
And that's where bluffing comes in.Quote:
Originally Posted by LadiesLoveCoolDan
ahahahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by GHOSTLACED
Everytime I say this, somebody gets upset and says "YOU NEVER PLAYED POKER!! YOU DON'T GET IT!! THERE'S ALL KINDS OF SKILL INVOLVED!!"
Why do poker fags get so defensive about it?
Also, this doesn't belong in the Sports Zone. Poker is not a sport.
YOU FAGS DON'T GET IT!!! I'M AWESOME AT GO FISH!!!!! IT TAKES SKILL. SHOW SOME RESPCT.
I AM THE MAN AT CANDYLAND!!!! YOU'VE NEVER PLAYED CANDYLAND BEFORE IF YOU DON'T THINK IT TAKES SKILL!!!!
Its not luck at all really. Theres some luck. But over a stretch luck doesnt come into it.
Anyone who plays poker with some buddies occasionally, i used to play every week in the back of my bar, and the same people would end up winning, everytime. Because they were the best at it. Not because they were the most lucky.
The best players mathematically work out all the percentages of likely hands, to give them more likelyhood of winning.
Lol I ain't mad. There is skill. But yea, it is partially luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by LadiesLoveCoolDan
I didn't mean you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wu-Rapatician.
i think that there is SOME skill involved.
BUT if you reach the professional level, it seems to me that pretty much everyone is at or close to the same skill level. So, when everybody is at close to the same skill level, luck is a greater determining factor.
Actually, this talk has made me want to join some sort of online gambling site.
What is a site where I can play casino-style games and bet on sports?
Aight lol. But as a matter of fact. The description of this forum says "Anything from football to chess". Chess ain't a sport. But I think poker falls somewhere in between.Quote:
Originally Posted by LadiesLoveCoolDan
get an msn zone account (free) and ill play you at heads up texas hold em, then we'll see how much luck is involved :WQuote:
Originally Posted by LadiesLoveCoolDan
Poker is about making the right decisions. That's all I'm gonna say. It's nowhere near close to 80% luck.
The only luck in poker is when it's bad luck and you keep getting shitty cards.
I was playing for real cashe before and just kept getting stupid shit like a 2 and a 6. This was happening for about 20 hands and the blinds were killing me.
In this case I will say that luck caused me to play bad cause I was feeling down as fuck when everyone else was turning over pairs before the flop.
It did make me take more risks though as I decided to bluff the fuck out of a shit hand and went on to win the hand by pure luck.
I guess it works both ways
Phil Hellmuth is the greatest athlete of all time
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadiesLoveCoolDan
luck is involved... but your pecentage is wrong. i would say its about 40% luck, maybe less... depends on who your playing and the size of your stack.
if you want to bet on sports, worldsportsexchange.com they have their poker thing and other games too.Quote:
Originally Posted by LadiesLoveCoolDan
For poker and luck, winning 5 hands out of 10 is luck. Over time if you are making money after playing thousands of hands its no longer luck.
First get better.
I seen a funny name on Full Tilt... "I had outs"...I dont know why I think thats so funny but it is.
what's your sn at full tilt Pro Eng?
I like Razz... :D... Anybody else?
Anybody catch the new episode of High Stakes Poker? It sucked