That time of the year again.. (NBA PLAYOFF THREAD)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by B O T

why do you think that?

---

well, look at their opponents throughout the playoffs:

1st round: Wizards
Washington was shorthanded and missed a combined 48.2 ppg from Arenas and Butler. Washington with Arenas and Butler swept by the Cavs? No way.

2nd round: Nets
First of all it was an terrible accident that the Nets reached the playoffs. They played weak all season long in the weaker conference. Toronto was a welcomed first round opponent (unexperienced, unable to activate Bosh). The Nets haven't been a real challenge for Cleveland such as for many other teams in the East.

3rd round: Pistons
Yes, they beat em and they did that in an impressive way. Lebron delivered a classic with his 48-point effort. But did the Cavs dominate at any time in this series?

1st game: 79-76 Detroit
2nd game: 79-76 Detroit
3rd game: 88-82 Cleveland
4th game: 91-87 Cleveland
5th game: 109-107 Cleveland
6th game: 98-82 Cleveland

All games have been so close that they could have gone ether way. I don't want to defend Detroit. Cleveland played well all the way, but this shouldn't been their ticket to the Finals.

So which other team would have been a "true challenger? It's hard to pick a team in the weak east. The west is dominating this league for years and they will keep doing that until big trades go down over the next years.
Don't get me wrong: Cleveland is a force in the East, but compared to the West...you see what happens right now in the Finals - the Spurs teach them, game by game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NickyTooch

Yea, why is that? If Detroit should have been there, than they should have beaten Cleveland. LeBron James is probably the best player in the league in terms of all around game, and he is definitely the most dominant, taking over shaqs spot....his supporting cast isn't spectacular, but its not as horrible as it has been reputed to be. Especially with Gibson playing well. Losing Hughes for the series(yes you can call it that) was very tough on the Cavs.

That being said, maybe you should give the Spurs more credit. Just because they play 'boring' basketball doesn't mean they aren't a dynasty, which, they are. Four championships is an unbelievable feat for Tim Duncan. The fact that they play defense first, have quiet stars and play in a very small market non descript city all plays into this.

---

Lebron is not the most dominant player in the league. Yes he is ONE of the best all-around players in the league and will go down as a legend. His dominance level is based on impressive numbers he's putting up game by game in the reg. season! You can't compare him to Shaq who increased his numbers in the playoffs + in the finals. Shaq dominated everything down low, no matter who was standing there. Lebron? Look at his percentages right now. 36,7% FG-shooting in the Finals. That's not dominant. Being dominant means to control the game, no matter who you playing against. You don't have to put up 30-8-8 to be "dominant". Great players in the past dominated with their leadership, their basketball-IQ and with their decision making. Lebron has still a long way to go.

You mentioned the Spurs play "boring" basketball. For all those out there who think the NBA is about run and gun, double-pump dunks and 3's - stop watching this game. The And1-Tour is probably the perfect pick for you. Basketball is all about being efficient. The Spurs are that. Year by year. I rather watch the Spurs, their incredible team defense and their role allocation than "Highlights" of other players or teams. Don't get me wrong - I love dunks and 3's, but they shouldn't be the center of a game. Basketball is a sport of freaks. Both the players and the coaches are. The fans should be too. It's much more fun to watch a game and understand why Kobe just used 3 screens and is open at the elbow, than just looking for the next dunk.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Illegitimate Devil

well, look at their opponents throughout the playoffs:

1st round: Wizards
Washington was shorthanded and missed a combined 48.2 ppg from Arenas and Butler. Washington with Arenas and Butler swept by the Cavs? No way.

2nd round: Nets
First of all it was an terrible accident that the Nets reached the playoffs. They played weak all season long in the weaker conference. Toronto was a welcomed first round opponent (unexperienced, unable to activate Bosh). The Nets haven't been a real challenge for Cleveland such as for many other teams in the East.

3rd round: Pistons
Yes, they beat em and they did that in an impressive way. Lebron delivered a classic with his 48-point effort. But did the Cavs dominate at any time in this series?

1st game: 79-76 Detroit
2nd game: 79-76 Detroit
3rd game: 88-82 Cleveland
4th game: 91-87 Cleveland
5th game: 109-107 Cleveland
6th game: 98-82 Cleveland

All games have been so close that they could have gone ether way. I don't want to defend Detroit. Cleveland played well all the way, but this shouldn't been their ticket to the Finals.

So which other team would have been a "true challenger? It's hard to pick a team in the weak east. The west is dominating this league for years and they will keep doing that until big trades go down over the next years.
Don't get me wrong: Cleveland is a force in the East, but compared to the West...you see what happens right now in the Finals - the Spurs teach them, game by game.



Lebron is not the most dominant player in the league. Yes he is ONE of the best all-around players in the league and will go down as a legend. His dominance level is based on impressive numbers he's putting up game by game in the reg. season! You can't compare him to Shaq who increased his numbers in the playoffs + in the finals. Shaq dominated everything down low, no matter who was standing there. Lebron? Look at his percentages right now. 36,7% FG-shooting in the Finals. That's not dominant. Being dominant means to control the game, no matter who you playing against. You don't have to put up 30-8-8 to be "dominant". Great players in the past dominated with their leadership, their basketball-IQ and with their decision making. Lebron has still a long way to go.

You mentioned the Spurs play "boring" basketball. For all those out there who think the NBA is about run and gun, double-pump dunks and 3's - stop watching this game. The And1-Tour is probably the perfect pick for you. Basketball is all about being efficient. The Spurs are that. Year by year. I rather watch the Spurs, their incredible team defense and their role allocation than "Highlights" of other players or teams. Don't get me wrong - I love dunks and 3's, but they shouldn't be the center of a game. Basketball is a sport of freaks. Both the players and the coaches are. The fans should be too. It's much more fun to watch a game and understand why Kobe just used 3 screens and is open at the elbow, than just looking for the next dunk.

---

Thats what I was saying...So called 'boring' basketball is how championships can be won. And Shaq did not dominate when the Magic got pounded by Hakeem and the Rockets in 95.

And Cleveland controlled that series against Detroit. Up until game 5 or 6 Detroits largest lead was only like 5, and the biggest they had in the series was 8, which came in game 6, a game they lost.
I get pissed cuz people give the Cavs no credit, and think they just coasted thru. They earned the 2 spot by going on an undefeated run at the end of the regular season.
If Arenas and Butler arent hurt, they dont sweep Washington??? No shit, and if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. They beat the same wizards team last year.
So does the fact that the Spurs first championship came against a scrub ass 8th seeded knicks team in a shortened season take away from what they did?

If your going to talk about the cavs opponents, look at the Spurs. WHo is a tougher matchup...the Jazz or the Pistons? They did not have to go thru the Mavericks...and according to everyone, the Cavs don't belong in the Finals, so again, does that take away from what they accomplished?
Basically the same shit you are saying about Cleveland.

i dnt think u can say if a team deserves or doesnt deserve to be in the finals. the cavs did what was required of them. they beat washigton if the wizards has arenas and butler it may have been a different story but injuries happen in sport, its not the cavs fault they were injured. ok the nets were weak but so was every other team in the east.

the fact of the matter is the east is much weaker than the west no one can deny this, cleveland did have an easier run then the spurs but thats not their fault thats the fault of the other teams in the east for being poor.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NickyTooch

Thats what I was saying...So called 'boring' basketball is how championships can be won. And Shaq did not dominate when the Magic got pounded by Hakeem and the Rockets in 95.

And Cleveland controlled that series against Detroit. Up until game 5 or 6 Detroits largest lead was only like 5, and the biggest they had in the series was 8, which came in game 6, a game they lost.
I get pissed cuz people give the Cavs no credit, and think they just coasted thru. They earned the 2 spot by going on an undefeated run at the end of the regular season.
If Arenas and Butler arent hurt, they dont sweep Washington??? No shit, and if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. They beat the same wizards team last year.
So does the fact that the Spurs first championship came against a scrub ass 8th seeded knicks team in a shortened season take away from what they did?

If your going to talk about the cavs opponents, look at the Spurs. WHo is a tougher matchup...the Jazz or the Pistons? They did not have to go thru the Mavericks...and according to everyone, the Cavs don't belong in the Finals, so again, does that take away from what they accomplished?
Basically the same shit you are saying about Cleveland.

---

I'm not going to comment your post anyway...go and watch game 4 and enjoy

Whoever was yelling Party like a Rockstar is a true bitch.

Who kept screaming real loud in the audience during the game? It sounded like a woman giving labor, or something. They should have kicked that person out of the game. I had to turn the volume down.

What a disapointing NBA season. Is it near football season yet?

great team the spurs. i thought that the last two wins were more impressive than the first two. they were able to overcome abysmal performances in game 3 and 4. they made plays when they needed to make plays and got it done. they can win any way they need to.

too bad nobody watched it.

^^^ it's hard being a NBA fan, you're not alone man

people dont want to see fundamental X n' O basketball. people want dunks, fancy passes and 3 pointers. the league came to be what it is because of the "showtime" lakers of the 80's and "air" jordan(my favorite player BTW). since that aspect has faded, so have the viewers.

to your point about tha cavs not deserving to be in the finals,

all you can do is play the teams that are in front of you. both finalists had a pretty easy road. the cavs more so, but that's because of the lopsidedness in quality of the conferences. other than the sunz, the spurs went up against teams that were vastly inferior to them(many will talk about how the spurs got a huge break with the mavs getting eliminated). but all in all, both teams took care of business.

the mavericks, the heat, and even the pistons had similar easy opportunities to advance through the playoffs and they didnt get it done. the mavs and heat were embarrassed by the warriors and bulls, and the pistons struggled to close out and bulls team they should have made quick work of and then lost to a cavs team they should've beaten. situations like what happened to these 3 teams are why they go ahead and play the games.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RynMur

What a disapointing NBA season.

---

Co-Motherfucking sign!...nobody around my circle of friends is a fan anymore, just me.

I agree, this was particularly boring series. Tim Duncan is like a damn robot

I love how with like 30 seconds left LeBron's hitting 28 foot swish 3's.. going behind the legs, between them and scooping between two defenders to lay up baskets.

Little bit more of that during the first three quarters, Cavs could'a been in this. If this were the Lakers, I garuntee they'd have won at least 2/3 games because Kobe would have put up 45/50 in those wins. James got a lot to learn. He gotta really focus on his game and this sport the next few years if he wants to get where he sees himself being.

And I swear, the Cavs should have went to a Triangle offense with Big Z, James and Gibson. Their coach is horrible. It doesn't seem like Mike Brown did anything to help his team win.

if ppl dnt like to watch fundamental basketball then the viewing figures will drop cause i predict most teams beginning to play like the spurs. because this style of basketball wins games unless u got a micheal jordon in your team. the facts are for the past couple of years the fundamental game has returned u may not see it in the nba but if u watch international basketball you would know. argentina are olympic champs because they play very similarly to the spurs and spain are world champs because they do what they have to do. team USA have the best roster in the world but still they lose against a team like greece because the european teams defend as a team and attack as a team. this is what the spurs do, if u guys watch a game in the european leagues u will rarely if ever see a dunk. 3 pointers do fly in from all over the place but thats because the 3 point line is closer to the basket. the nba has now become an international league the european influence is heavy so teams will now play a more fundamental game because thats how europeans play basketball. and because of this dirk is mvp of the regular season and tony parker mvp of the finals.

just let me say this: I'm tired of guys talking about the good old times when Jordan was playing, the bad boys or whatever...it was a good time, no doubt, MJ is the best ever, but you gotta realize that the NBA how it is right now, isn't bad at all.

Oden and Durant are coming. We'll see how Lebron, Wade & Carmelo keep gettin better and battle in the playoffs. The old generation will make space for the young guns. Coming and going. It's all good...open your eyes.

What happened was that the NBA expanded and the league got a little more watered down plus with early entries and high school players being drafted at a higher rate it took longer for developement.

Winning championships like the Spurs...


http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...494336423l.jpg

^^^sick, are you on the pic?

tim duncan is the best player since mj and is the best pf of all time and is top ten of all time

my pick is Shaq - 4 titles with 2 different teams, the face of domination in this league

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Illegitimate Devil

my pick is Shaq - 4 titles with 2 different teams, the face of domination in this league

---

I have shaq at 2 it is real close between duncan, shaq and kobe for 1 after that 4 threw 10 is hard

1.duncan
2.shaq
3.kobe
4.kidd
5.nash
6.wade
7.iverson
8.garnett
9.b.wallace
10.james

kidd and nash is close, wade could be 4 by next year james could move up

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hectis

I have shaq at 2 it is real close between duncan, shaq and kobe for 1 after that 4 threw 10 is hard

1.duncan
2.shaq
3.kobe
4.kidd
5.nash
6.wade
7.iverson
8.garnett
9.b.wallace
10.james

kidd and nash is close, wade could be 4 by next year james could move up

---

man, if that's your top-ten all time then you really should've said top-ten current players, it's all just oppinions but its highly debatable that Duncan cracks the TopTen imo.

btw Nash runs the point better than Kidd

Duncan is DOODOO. He's a class act player but to me, he's really not that great.

I'd rather have Dirk or KG at the PF position. They are proven scorers.

Duncan relies to heavily on his teammates to help him get position to score. Have you ever seen the dude, set up plays for his teammates? Nope. If he has a bad look at the basket, he throws it up against the glass. (I'll admit though, it's a pretty nice shot when he does that).

duncan isnt a scorer. he has his nights where he'll get off but if you're gonna put it in his hands and tell him to consistantly be a scorer and get his own shots he's gonna have a hard time.

he's more of a cleanup guy who puts the ball in off of rebounds and broken plays. he's got that bank shot though.

I gotta say Duncan's a good scorer in the low post. Great footwork with more than one move hes uses to score, or course his range isn't great as he's not that effective outside of the paint (unless he's killin' you with that off-the-board bank shot)

Anyone who thinks he's not setting up his players should watch what happens when Duncan fouls out of a game. It's a ensuing slaughter just about every time.

It should be noted I'm not a SA fan, its just I can't deny the guy's talent even if he looks like Corky. haha

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by B O T

duncan isnt a scorer. he has his nights where he'll get off but if you're gonna put it in his hands and tell him to consistantly be a scorer and get his own shots he's gonna have a hard time.

he's more of a cleanup guy who puts the ball in off of rebounds and broken plays. he's got that bank shot though.

---

totally wrong. Duncan is one of the best scorers in the paint ever.

He cannot create his own shot? man, "so many moves, so much power" is one quote that describes Tim Duncan the best, he can get his shot whenever he wants to...

He's averaging 21.8ppg during his career (highest was 25.5ppg in 01/02). To call him a clean-up player is ridiculous - it's part of the job to clean the board as a big guy, why shouldn't Duncan do that too?

btw he is the anchor of the spurs offense, without Duncan Parker wouldn't have that much drives - Duncan spreads the whole paint for the frenchman

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Visions Unseen

I gotta say Duncan's a good scorer in the low post. Great footwork with more than one move hes uses to score, or course his range isn't great as he's not that effective outside of the paint (unless he's killin' you with that off-the-board bank shot)

Anyone who thinks he's not setting up his players should watch what happens when Duncan fouls out of a game. It's a ensuing slaughter just about every time.

It should be noted I'm not a SA fan, its just I can't deny the guy's talent even if he looks like Corky. haha

---

finally somebody sees the footwork, guys don't realize that these guys are 7-0 or bigger plus another monster is leaning into their back...but you aren't right saying that his range isn't great. His bank shot is deadly, his jumper is on point for a big man. Duncan has range nearly to the 3-point line (I'm not the first person who said that), 100% to the elbows...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Visions Unseen

man, if that's your top-ten all time then you really should've said top-ten current players, it's all just oppinions but its highly debatable that Duncan cracks the TopTen imo.

btw Nash runs the point better than Kidd

---

not all time top ten since jorden left

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scribbles

Duncan is DOODOO. He's a class act player but to me, he's really not that great.

I'd rather have Dirk or KG at the PF position. They are proven scorers.

Duncan relies to heavily on his teammates to help him get position to score. Have you ever seen the dude, set up plays for his teammates? Nope. If he has a bad look at the basket, he throws it up against the glass. (I'll admit though, it's a pretty nice shot when he does that).

---

Tim Duncan has won four nba titles, won the mvp twice a three time finals mvp a nine time all star a ten time all nba first team a ten time first defensive team he also won rookie of the year the spurs have the highest winning percentage in finals history so to say he is doodoo is wrong and kg is good but he is no duncan and dirk is good during the regular season but disappears when it counts the most if the spurs had him and not duncan they would prob never have won a title if the mavs had duncan the would have won title maybe 4

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Illegitimate Devil

He cannot create his own shot? man, "so many moves, so much power" is one quote that describes Tim Duncan the best, he can get his shot whenever he wants to...

He's averaging 21.8ppg during his career (highest was 25.5ppg in 01/02). To call him a clean-up player is ridiculous - it's part of the job to clean the board as a big guy, why shouldn't Duncan do that too?

btw he is the anchor of the spurs offense, without Duncan Parker wouldn't have that much drives - Duncan spreads the whole paint for the frenchman

---

you're not gonna dump it down to duncan and have him win it for you. i agree that he helps the offense to flow with his ability to distribute but if you think you're gonna give it to him downlow and he's gonna score 30 points, no way. he's actually pretty average as a back to the basket post player but if he's midrange from the bank side he'll hit that shot all day.

he has poor handling skills down there and has a tendency to get stripped. lot of his points come from the line and putbacks. you saw in those last 2 finals games where he got bottled up. ilguoskas(sp?) shut him down and there double teams where very affective against him.

he's far from "DOODOO" but he's a bit overrated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by B O T

you're not gonna dump it down to duncan and have him win it for you. i agree that he helps the offense to flow with his ability to distribute but if you think you're gonna give it to him downlow and he's gonna score 30 points, no way. he's actually pretty average as a back to the basket post player but if he's midrange from the bank side he'll hit that shot all day.

he has poor handling skills down there and has a tendency to get stripped. lot of his points come from the line and putbacks. you saw in those last 2 finals games where he got bottled up. ilguoskas(sp?) shut him down and there double teams where very affective against him.

he's far from "DOODOO" but he's a bit overrated.

---

are you sayin that Duncan's never had a 30 pt game?? haha lol and Duncan is no way an "average post player", he's widely considered the best PF of all time and if not THE best then he's atleast top 3. He doesn't back in though a la Shaq, he's at his best facin the basket where his footwork and repotoire of moves baffles most. I'd also say he's got good handles for a big man, ofcourse they're not great, but he plays the 4 not the 1. When you're 7 foot that's alot of distance the balls traveling on every dribble lol, ofcourse there's gonna be strips but bottom line is he's the anchor piece for a club that's got four rings and there's not a single player that hurts the Spurs more by not being on the floor because of foul trouble or injury. They can play without Parker or Ginobli but when Timmy's not on floor, trouble often ensues. There's just no denying that or what he means to the Spurs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by B O T

he has poor handling skills down there and has a tendency to get stripped.

---

if you really think that, a quote from ex-rockets coach jeff van gundy about duncan during the finals game 4 may change your mind, after Duncan passed the ball out of the post to Tony Parker:"...it is one of the hardest things to do for a big man to dribble the ball 2-3 times and to pass without picking it up. There are only a handful of big guys that can do that."

what repotiore of moves? he has the bank shot and what? take manu and tony off that team and the spurs are no longer championship contenders. why do you think tony got the MVP? and either tony or manu should've gotten it in their 05 championship campaign but you know, politics as usual.

im not asking him to hav kobe handles but he's pretty clumsy with the ball when he's backing dudes down. he's a good facilitator and because he draws double teams he gets guys open shots. but as far as getting your own shot and getting to the basket, manu and tony are WAY better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Illegitimate Devil

if you really think that, a quote from ex-rockets coach jeff van gundy about duncan during the finals game 4 may change your mind, after Duncan passed the ball out of the post to Tony Parker:"...it is one of the hardest things to do for a big man to dribble the ball 2-3 times and to pass without picking it up. There are only a handful of big guys that can do that."

---

okay, he takes a few dribbles, sees and open shooter and hits them. whats so special about that? theres a lot big men who will back a dude down and still be looking for an open man.

balkey is caught up in the tim duncan hype too. but again, he's not a crappy player by any means. he's just overated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by B O T

what repotiore of moves? he has the bank shot and what? take manu and tony off that team and the spurs are no longer championship contenders. why do you think tony got the MVP? and either tony or manu should've gotten it in their 05 championship campaign but you know, politics as usual.

im not asking him to hav kobe handles but he's pretty clumsy with the ball when he's backing dudes down. he's a good facilitator and because he draws double teams he gets guys open shots. but as far as getting your own shot and getting to the basket, manu and tony are WAY better.

---

he's got the up and under, the jab step, amongst others (I don't know the actual name for all the shit he does but its alot more than you're givin him credit for) The Spurs haven't always had Manu or Parker there for those four rings, TD is the one constant in the equation so No, what you're sayin there don't hold water. And Tony got the MVP because the Cav's coach didn't have enough sense to put someone with some actual D on him for the get go.(how fast is Larry Hughes with one good leg? Apparently about the same as a turtle uphill) It's alot easier to get to the basket when TD is constantly absorbing the double teams as well.

Have you ever seen a Spurs game where TD fouls out fairly early?

Do Ginobli or Parker strap the team to their back and carry them the rest of the way?................:nonono: Nope , they look like Custard with Crazy Horse on the hillside

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by B O T

what repotiore of moves? he has the bank shot and what? take manu and tony off that team and the spurs are no longer championship contenders. why do you think tony got the MVP? and either tony or manu should've gotten it in their 05 championship campaign but you know, politics as usual.

im not asking him to hav kobe handles but he's pretty clumsy with the ball when he's backing dudes down. he's a good facilitator and because he draws double teams he gets guys open shots. but as far as getting your own shot and getting to the basket, manu and tony are WAY better.

---

repertoire of Duncan's Moves & Shots:
The Postplay: starting with the hook shot which is the best after Yao's in the league

baby hook: Duncan's footwork is probably one of the best ever seen in the NBA, he's spinning too quick -no matter left or right - for most big men, the ones who are fast enough (Dwight Howard, Al Jefferson) are faced with the baby hook (fading away, also hits with the right foot)

lay-ups: Duncan uses lay-ups protected by the rim, 7 out of 10 times you'll see him use glass making the lay-up, even if the dunk is possible

dunks: use the dunk as what it is: a high-percentage shot which sends a message to both teams, put a body on the defensive player. draw the foul - GO STRONG, never saw Duncan NOT making one of these things

bank shot: combined with his jab step, Duncan creates space - most of the time the defense reacts, the bank shot is pure

jumpshot: Duncan can hit from the baseline, elbows, range til the 3-point-line


I know it looks weird to list dunks and lay-ups as his moves, but: Duncan always used them the best way possible, remember - always protect the basketball as an offensive player, coaches don't love him for nothing


why did Tony get the MVP?

well this doesn't start with the skills of Tony or Duncan, it starts with which team the Spurs played. the cavs defenders where helpless vs. Parkers penetration and speed, their transition defense was terrible, Parker scored 10 or 12 points in game 4 because of the lack discipline of the cavs going back on D.

second point: playing a zone vs. the spurs (which could have been a way to slow Parker down driving to the basket) is simply dangerous: coach pop plays with AT LEAST 3 threats from downtown (examples: Finley, Ginobili, Horry, Bowen)

third point: the 3-pointers + Duncan, both spread the floor for Tony, he gets alot of space to penetrate or create his own shot. he showed his improved J.


but as far as getting your own shot and getting to the basket, manu and tony are WAY better...

well this is funny. you compare a guy who's 7-0 with a 6-6 and a 6-2 point guard...of course the smaller guys have an advantage of dribbling the ball. you also can't compare the way these guys create their own shots - once again the height makes that impossible.

Whoever is using championships as a reason as to why Duncan is the best PF ever, needs to check themselves.

First of all Rings don't measure an individual's success (that's a team effort).

Second, Duncan is good but far from the best ever. Come on stop playin yourself, I don't need to elaborate furthermore.

Third, everyone always talks about how Duncan spreads the floor for his teammate. Well what about the other way. His teammates, Ginobli, Parker, Bowen - they are constantly running in and out of weaves, setting picks, etc. If anything they are avoiding the double team on Duncan almost - always.

Let me just clarify, Duncan is good but he is not GOAT. I mean he was NOTHING in the 90s when there was a lot of GOOD PFs. There just isn't that many decent PFs in the league right now....that's why people are glorifying him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scribbles

Whoever is using championships as a reason as to why Duncan is the best PF ever, needs to check themselves.

---

well, why do people use championships for saying Bill Russell is one of the best C ever? same thing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scribbles

First of all Rings don't measure an individual's success (that's a team effort).

---

true. but MVP and Finals MVP trophys do...
Finals MVP: 1999, 2003, 2005
League MVP: 2002, 2003

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scribbles

Third, everyone always talks about how Duncan spreads the floor for his teammate. Well what about the other way. His teammates, Ginobli, Parker, Bowen - they are constantly running in and out of weaves, setting picks, etc. If anything they are avoiding the double team on Duncan almost - always.

---

everybody is doing his job, that's true. but why do players like Rasheed Wallace (off-ball player: Richard Hamilton) or Jermaine O'Neal (ex-off-ball player: Reggie Miller) NOT spread the floor like Duncan??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scribbles

Duncan is good but he is not GOAT. I mean he was NOTHING in the 90s when there was a lot of GOOD PFs. There just isn't that many decent PFs in the league right now....that's why people are glorifying him.

---

His stats in the 90's when he was "nothing":
97-98...21.1ppg...11.9rpg...2.5bpg
98-99...21.7ppg...11.4rpg...2.5bpg
99-00...23.2ppg...12.4rpg...2.2bpg

I never said Duncan is the GOAT. Jordan is, but anyway...Duncan is the most consistent and one of the most efficient players ever. Put him in the Top 3 of the PF (I think he's the best PF, but nevermind).

^that's what I'm saying, has to be ATLEAST top 3 at PF. Curious to hear who'd anyone would put ahead of him. Barkley, Malone,....who else?

I think Malone is right behind him, yeah

yeah homey is right. stop dickriding tim duncan. he aint a goat. hes good but not a goat. its all about teamwork.