https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkBllhhf3UM
Double albums are hard to judge. It's like watching an anthology movie, some stories you like, others you don't (except Tales from the Hood, which is a masterpiece). Anyway, most tracks on Forever are good, some weak ones. Overall, a great album. Definitely could've been better. But not better than Biggie's double album, which had better production, surprisingly
Classic album full stop!. I hate social media now people think they just need to yak for the sake of it. Yeah there are some fillers but so what, you know how hard it is to make a perfect double lp? Rae should stay quite and Wu should slide off into retirement before they do more damage to their legacy.
peace
It's Rae tho...this is what he does. Nothing new here.
Got me thinking though...RZA's original idea for Forever was the story album concept- Did anything beyond The Chase ever get recorded for that?
He's correct imo, album has 3/4 great tracks, but lacks a bit of cohesion.
This troll doesn't even care about content. He made a throwaway thread about Wu Forever being trash like just two days ago that we moved to SID ROW or some such sectionQuote:
Originally Posted by mr rusev
Wu Forever is classic
Rae is mad not everybody put 100% into the album and that not every member got the chance to be involved in the direction the album was heading.
Two separate issues, and I understand his point. But criticizing an album most hold dearly doesn't do him any favors. He often comes off as grumpy and ungrateful in the media when discussing the Wu, while actually he's trying to make good points about the value of real group efforts on Wu album.
If I were him I wouldn't bother venting this frustration in the media but he's Grizzly Raekwon and he can do as he bloody well pleases. Maybe think about not shitting on the group legacy just to shift copies of your book though.
He loves immobilarity and those wack beats
^ Exactly.
I don't like all the shit stirring Raekwon does.
Some artists should just stick to music and skip interviews.
Raekwon lets out his frustration quite often, but almost always has valid back up behind them. U god is just upset because he is the bottom of the totem pole General and will gladly shit on Wu Tang's legacy if it means him getting his point across..
these washed up wu tang dudes need clout
thats how come they are gossiping to dj vlad
Got mad love for you grizzly but you can’t be saying this fugazi Ass shit when you dropped immobilarity and lex diamonds story .
not the man to be criticizing monumental albums like forever .
https://youtu.be/OBlQ8L8wkOQ
Rae & Uey are both loud. Always giving us over 9000 whenever they have an opinion. lol. Forever still solid though.
For real? When was this discussed? Because I think I missed the info about that. The only thing I can recall, is RZA wanting to name it 8 Diagrams.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddah_MAC
Valentines massacre was on the table for the forever album before it got settled to be named forever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet Set
Also I read biggies album had better beats? Not in my book though. 2pacs all eyez on me had better beats then biggies double album. Forever was in a diffrent leauge at the time.
When talking about 90's hiphop, there is a lot of stories that are only written up in magazines through articles and interviews. Or not even written, and just radio interviews. Which makes one think about the amount of background we are missing. Or the amount of background that is being rewritten through the echo chamber of the internet.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee3
For All Eyez On Me, 'Pac literally picked the best beats from Death Row. My Mind Made Up was a Dogg Pound track. The two Dre tracks were made for Dre's 2nd album.
wu tang forever is very boring
i listened to 45 seconds of track 1 and they rambled about eating pizza in a basement
People tend to overanalyze hip-hop albums, but it's quite simple: the beats work or they don't. Most of the beats on Forever work, but some definitely don't, hence the problem with the overall album. I haven't listened to Tupac's double lp in a while, but I listened to Biggie's double lp, and I was impressed with the beats. Even RZA gave him a dope ass beat.
Anyway, it's all about the beats. Always has been, always will be. The Wu never disappoints lyrically, just beat-wise
Wu-Tang Forever is perfect as it is... A great album IMO isn't about every song slamming as hard as it can... it's about the sonic journey it takes you on and how each piece works together. Wisdom Body isn't as engaging as Wu-Gambinos, but it all works together. The emotions, the color, everything. I think Forever works that way. Even Black Shampoo. That was such a unique wavey melody, only RZA could've made that. That's what I enjoy about it. Deadly Medley has that same unusual approach to the melody that again, it could only be RZA. That's what makes Wu-tang, Wu-tang for me.
Just tell me that Raekwon has no taste or is jelly of RZA unimpeachable genius
Well saidQuote:
Originally Posted by Cilvaringz
When Wu tang Forever came out it was totally ground breaking, just on another level (People seem to forget that?).
he's entitled to his weird opinion, but ima just say lets just thank god Raekwon didn't have any creative control over most of Wu-Tang's greatest achievements
he gives Wu Forever a 79/100 then makes Immobiliarity....OK lol
he's shown over the last couple months of his interviews that RZA had the better vision over how Raekwon wanted to handle things almost 100% of the time
also I feel like if you're Raekwon and have no real experience of what goes into being one of the most gifted musical minds of all time, what goes into mixing, mastering, editing, managing 9 different opinions, arranging sounds - I don't care if Rae is one of the greatest lyricists - he didn't have to do 5% of the work RZA did. At some point you have to put your personal opinion aside and stand for your brand especially if the entire world loves it
I used to consider Forever n Liquid Swords to be the 2 greatest hip hop albums of all thyme. But for some reason Forever is something I rarely have the desire to listen to. Still tho, I do consider it to be one of the very best hip hop albums. I think disc one is almost flawless if u pretend that shitty intro never existed, as I always have. Fuck that garbage off and u have a concise and very well constructed album of classic tracks.
Disc two is excellent too, but for me it's more like everything that was left after putting together disc one. Which is not to say it's of a lesser quality. Just not an especially coherent whole. Kinda like the Wu-Tang White Album.
Funnily enough, after recently going through all the classic Wu albums (and the shit ones too, actually), for the first thyme in many years, I can say that I think Cuban Linx is the standalone greatest hip hop album of all thyme. So Rae has got that one at least, imo.
Cuban Linx has always been my favorite hip-hop album ever. It's flawless. Ghost bodied every track he's onQuote:
Originally Posted by noel411
I still consider Forever to be my favorite album ever, but it would have been better without those 5-6 fillers.
Thats funny - I feel the opposite and Disc 2 is sheer perfection to me. Wu Forever was my real introduction to the clan though and I'm sure that makes a difference. The beats and rhymes are so next level that I don't think it would've mattered personally though. I listened to that album every day for 7 years straight, maybe missing no more than 5 days in that time - no exaggeration. The full album. I still listen to at least one track damn near every day to this day.Quote:
Originally Posted by noel411
Even though Liquid Swords is my favorite - if there's such thing as an objectively GOAT hip hop album I think it probably is OB4CL since it has a mix of grimy street rhymes and slang and deep lyrics, and the pacing/ arrangement of songs is perfect. It's the most all around complete album I can think of, it has something for everybody.
^from what I recall from threads on here in the past, disc two is the more favoured side. Surprising to me, but so be it. I've always been very much a disc one man.
Forever is a certified classic. My favorite Wu Album. Rae should stop complaining. He got one classic under his own belt and RZA was the main man behind that as well
Forever is arguably better than 36 Chambers but different enough for it to be a matter of opinion.
They were all clearly in a bad mood when they recorded it which is why every single member says it's not a good album. They probably had a blast recording 36 Chambers in contrast.
Ghost says the same about Ironman and Method Man about Tical. They all judge those albums based on how they themselves were feeling at the time it was recorded
Rae has the right to 'complain' if Rza is playing with his money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSA
I don’t know why people say Forever is not a cohesive album, everyone on there seems to be of one mind IMO? I don’t hear discrepancy when I listen to the album?
Yeah, the general consensus as far as I know for both hard core Wu Tang Clan fans and casuals is that disk two is the preferred disk..Quote:
Originally Posted by noel411
I agree. Alot of information got lost in time. Internet was new to most people and people got their information from magazines like vibe and xxl. So if noone really have the magazines from that time stored we will not be able to go back and read those articles again. If vibe or xxl post them on their web site. But the job would be humongous so I dont see that happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet Set
And for all eyez on me yes he got the best music at the time. But he was also one of the most contriversial artists at the time aswell plus hes name was known allready so it makes sense they did gave him a musical push. Even puff daddy gave biggie the best beats from the bad boy camp. He had the hit makers at the time aswell and they were really good producers.
Bonus fact. U cant see me was originally made for the dogg pound. I got that song on my computer and Im sure you can find it on youtube.
There's a lot of nonsensical group-think takes in hip hop and this is one of them. So many ppl will say it that you'll look crazy saying otherwise but you're right.Quote:
Originally Posted by zooruka
Forever is one of the most sonically, thematically, lyrically and conceptually consistent albums in hip hop history. All of the songs there fit and sound like the fit. That album is grand/epic. The lyrics are grand and epic, the references in the lyrics are grand and epic down to the word choices. The beats and sounds are grand and epic, the song concepts the same. And that being the peak of their careers even adds to that. It's pretty moronic for ppl to come for that album when most of the groups career highs are on that album skill-wise (beats, lyrics).
People want to be able to say something and that's something that can be said. Whenever people say songs should be taken off Forever I ask them which ones and there's barely an answer. Are you going to take off Hell's Wind Staff, Scary Hours, Bells of War or Triumph? The most they'll give you is Black Shampoo which is a great fucking song that has no equal anywhere in hip hop, but the group-think hot take is to say U-god is wack so that's the least safe one.
I don't think, after the 100's of times I've listened to WTF, I've ever tried to determine if I like disc 1 or 2 better. That would be a tough one for me because....disc 1 has less skips for me than disc 2, but there are more tracks on disc 2. And my 2 favorite tracks are split between them. So I don't know lol
For real. Sonically it was different from what people heard before from Wu. But in the last 15 years it dawned on me that this album was the next step forward. Indeed people would not understand untill '2 g', as RZA said.Quote:
Originally Posted by TSA
Is Sunshower generally considered to be a part of this album? The copies I've owned of it always had it, so I'm used to it. Otherwise it'd end on Black Shampoo for me, which would be a weird closer. I don't listen to the tekitha song or Rae's stupid outro. I never used to listen to Shampoo either, in which case it would've ended on Heaterz. Sunshower is a great closer.
A Better Tomorrow and It's Yours are a fantastic way to close out disc one.
raekwon is bugging the fuck out i dont even want to watch the video the double lp wu tang forever is a classic from front to back and my fav album of all times this specially if you love lyrics and if you listening to wutang and dont love listening to lyrics then i dont know what the hell you listening for in the first place so many jewelz in that album lyrically its a master piece
I listened to Forever over the last couple of days. I'd still skip Black Shampoo. I like Uey. He has one of the strongest solo discogs in the clan. But I don't need to hear that song when I've just heard a a shit tonne of classic Wu shit ahead of it.
So without Sunshower the album would end on Heaterz, for me.
Second Coming is dope. Dark sounding track to cap off the album.
Black Shampoo was okay cos it gives a bit of balance to the album. Cilvaringz had it right, not every track needs to be an epic 5 star composition, you need the balance of different style songs and a way of building tension over the course of an album.
I agree, except for all the other members.Quote:
Originally Posted by noel411
Yeah it could've worked on the album, just doesn't work well in that spot. At least not for me. But tbh I dunno where it would've worked well. So maybe not. Personally I'd have left it off the album.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaDynasty
I don't like the tekitha song. Hadn't heard it in forever (no pun intended), until just recently. I didn't enjoy hearing it again. I'm not a huge fan of her singing tbh.
It'd b an unfortunate ending without Sunshower, imo.