"8 Diagrams" is a masterpiece

This is right up there with 36 Chambers to me. Every beat is a hard spooky vibe that bumps. The verses are solid from everyone and gritty without being ignorant like some of the early albums. I get why people don't like it, but it reminds me of The W except it doesn't have any radio singles. It feels like one long track instead of a bunch of diverse songs. I like that. its what I would want a new album to sound like. This really wasn't what people wanted at the time, when Lil Wayne and Jay-Z were the top rappers, but I think this shit is 100% better than them niggas.

Other members didn't want this album to be so dark but it should've been. This was the first after Dirty's death and the album reflects that from the title to the tone.

I love 8D. Album gets hate for no reason which is probably Ghost’s fault for bashing it before the release. Campfire and Windmill are 10/10. Peace

I agree. I think the OG version is the best of the big 5 albums of that era and i love all 5

8d og
Cuban 2
fishscale
grandmasters
​no said date

the darkness is the best part of it. Campfire. Gun will go. Its a very sad depressing yet at same time hipeful album. In the end it worked out for them so i say it shouod be revisted. I hated how they turned on this album. A better tomorrow so much worse. I saw online someone said ghost cut watch your mouth. He said it was wack to the person. Ghost sometimes doesnt know much about his own base sadly.

Album had so much cut material. Heres my playlist for all the cut tracks and some edited versions of songs to free up space/add mcs back in their og spots.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXrWaGOdBUWTQEUvo4Pl3jWQ_nJbjtJQx&f eature=shared

The album has issues. I love the production (except Starter) but I can understand the somber tone & lack of stand out "Wu-bangers" turning some off, but that's personal preference.

The real issues are in the litany of awful choruses, bad sequencing and half the group rapping like they didn't want to be there (although some of that feel could have come from RZA's different vocal recording style for the album causing the MCs to sound lower key & removed).

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Originally Posted by Buddah_MAC

The album has issues. I love the production (except Starter) but I can understand the somber tone & lack of stand out "Wu-bangers" turning some off, but that's personal preference.

The real issues are in the litany of awful choruses, bad sequencing and half the group rapping like they didn't want to be there (although some of that feel could have come from RZA's different vocal recording style for the album causing the MCs to sound lower key & removed).

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Obviously I'm gonna respectfully disagree but I do think RZA was really pushing them to stretch from what they were rapping about before and sometimes its evident they were forcing themselves to the song concepts. Still works for me because a Wu album should be them listening to RZA as producer IMO. TSC is a great album without RZA's micromanaging, but it also feels like a bunch of tracks they do on each other's solo albums and not a real Wu group album. Ironic to me that U-God is off the one album that isn't RZA's.

I'll admit there are no catchy hooks and it doesn't feel poppy at all, but that fits a concept album. I think Ghost was bitter because he was the hottest out at the time and a W album would've given him more media shine but a dark album didn't let him do what he does best. I think the higher profile members wanted the album to resurrect their careers more and have radio and street classics, but that wasn't what RZA felt like producing. Can't really produce sounds that you aren't feeling.

The only chorus i thought was trash was unlredictable which is unlistenable in current state (beats fine minus gtr) with that hook. I thought the math track was a classic soul singung wu type song straught outta ironman. Starter was ok. Clinton brought odb wnergy i loved wolves and the extra track i liked that more than starter.

imo rza went thru all the eras of his production there.

what the album reallu needs is less verse hook verse hook verse hook

wu was known for having the big multi man cuts and so many songs are just 123 paint by numbers

and i agree the mcing is kinda lacking as well. Tho ghosy puts his all in when hes there. Rae sounds weird cuz the og version is his album but he sounds dead. Gza was fine. Meth represented. Not nearly enough deck or cap on the album at all.

Eight Diagrams is better now retroactively than when it was originally released. I do not think that is going to be the case for A Better Tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by Sam the Seed

Obviously I'm gonna respectfully disagree but I do think RZA was really pushing them to stretch from what they were rapping about before and sometimes its evident they were forcing themselves to the song concepts. Still works for me because a Wu album should be them listening to RZA as producer IMO. TSC is a great album without RZA's micromanaging, but it also feels like a bunch of tracks they do on each other's solo albums and not a real Wu group album. Ironic to me that U-God is off the one album that isn't RZA's.

I'll admit there are no catchy hooks and it doesn't feel poppy at all, but that fits a concept album. I think Ghost was bitter because he was the hottest out at the time and a W album would've given him more media shine but a dark album didn't let him do what he does best. I think the higher profile members wanted the album to resurrect their careers more and have radio and street classics, but that wasn't what RZA felt like producing. Can't really produce sounds that you aren't feeling.

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No, I was talking about how RZA technically recorded vocals for this album. Check the EPK.

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Originally Posted by ForensikZ

what the album reallu needs is less verse hook verse hook verse hook

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2 songs in a row are MC/ hook/ Meth/ hook/ Masta over a beat switch/ hook

The W is an underrated classic. 8 Diagrams was pretty good never near classic status... Lets not even talk about ABT

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Originally Posted by Buddah_MAC

No, I was talking about how RZA technically recorded vocals for this album. Check the EPK.



2 songs in a row are MC/ hook/ Meth/ hook/ Masta over a beat switch/ hook

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ya

Wolves, get em out the way pa, and gun will go all similar lineups

and then weakspot, rushing elephants and the cut face fhe problems track are rae gza /+1 or 2

and yhen defk and rza got 2 songs kinda in u predictable and you cant stop me now. Its a weirdly designed album that way.

I think the RnB choruses are strong even if they're excessive on a few songs. Erykah Badu is kinda annoying on The Heart Gently Weeps because she's all over it. Unpredictable is raw to me. The line up thing is true. Meth and Rae are on most songs. The thing about Masta Killa is his voice & flow are so different from everyone else that RZA has to give him a transition to fit on the song. He did that on previous albums. Because of the dark and slow tone, there should've been more GZA and U-God imo and they really standout when they do rap.

Just about every beat is nice. But I don't think they lend themselves to cypher. I wish more songs were solo or 2 man like CREAM or Tearz were.

Masta Killa and Meth were on fire for 8D in my opinion. And yeah Heart Gently Weeps was my only real skipper. Beat is boring, Rae sounds sleepy and hook is too much. Ghost painted though to redeem it. Peace

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Originally Posted by Sam the Seed

This is right up there with 36 Chambers to me. Every beat is a hard spooky vibe that bumps. The verses are solid from everyone and gritty without being ignorant like some of the early albums. I get why people don't like it, but it reminds me of The W except it doesn't have any radio singles. It feels like one long track instead of a bunch of diverse songs. I like that. its what I would want a new album to sound like. This really wasn't what people wanted at the time, when Lil Wayne and Jay-Z were the top rappers, but I think this shit is 100% better than them niggas.

Other members didn't want this album to be so dark but it should've been. This was the first after Dirty's death and the album reflects that from the title to the tone.

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Ya'll must be getting bored in here. I don't think the album is completely wack but it was executed poorly. Just like ABT was supposed to be like a 4:44 type album but executed poorly.

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Originally Posted by Hollow Dartz

Ya'll must be getting bored in here. I don't think the album is completely wack but it was executed poorly. Just like ABT was supposed to be like a 4:44 type album but executed poorly.

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8d in recent years has had a lot of people come out and say how much they liked it. Its wedged inbetween 2 wu solo classics yet so many claim its “trash” or wack cause ghost said so. All the shit they said about rza they ended up doing. If anything rza was dead ahead of his time on this album and forecasted many trends witht he adult grown man albums by adult older artosts. Its not trash. Its a good album. It is at most a quater filler/bad. For 45 year olds, i accepted it for what it was.

def aint flawless. But its unapologetically rza doing wu. And i love that. Some weird producyion choices. As stated before. The same lineups on multi songs, 3 min long chinese poems, gtrs and making ya tribute track have 8-8 bar hooks or whayever when they naturally double up and rhyme offeach other.

campfire, gun will go, weak spot, sunlight, stick me for my riches, og wolves, watch your mouth, og thig world, heart gently weeps, life changes… all great great wu tracks imo despite any flaws. Dope beats. Great vibes. There best full album since the w

​thats vintage wu


even the retail version has more than a few gems. Plus the 10 cut tracks. NOTHING like abt. At all. Theres only 2 songs that are bad imo and i dont even hate starter.

Where that original break beat version of wolves? Used to be on here. Superior version

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Originally Posted by human torch

Where that original break beat version of wolves? Used to be on here. Superior version

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suD1jvDoNw0

I know I’m in the minority here but I like the retail version of Wolves way better. Peace

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Originally Posted by josborne3680

I know I’m in the minority here but I like the retail version of Wolves way better. Peace

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Yea i think your the only one bro

i liked the retail fine. When i saw rza premiered this on wakeupshow the day 8d came out. I knew he wanted it on album but had to be a sample issue.

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Originally Posted by Buddah_MAC

No, I was talking about how RZA technically recorded vocals for this album. Check the EPK.



2 songs in a row are MC/ hook/ Meth/ hook/ Masta over a beat switch/ hook

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also vocally i love how they sounded. I read the mag tho so i remember it eas like a 4 miv setup around their nose mouth neck and chest or something. I dug that

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Originally Posted by ForensikZ

also vocally i love how they sounded. I read the mag tho so i remember it eas like a 4 miv setup around their nose mouth neck and chest or something. I dug that

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It might have helped with sound quality but, like I said, I wonder if that set up contributed to why so many performances were so low key on the album.

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Originally Posted by Buddah_MAC

It might have helped with sound quality but, like I said, I wonder if that set up contributed to why so many performances were so low key on the album.

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I think many perfomances lacked cause of internal frustration at the time. I know Rae didnt really want to do it at all for example. With all the drama in the group at the time its a great album. Is it their best for me no. I put it with the W. They are on the same tier for me. Forever is still my fav. I felt it was around there they peaked.

Not feeling that alternative Wolves.

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Originally Posted by josborne3680

I know I’m in the minority here but I like the retail version of Wolves way better. Peace

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You are not the ONLY one as I join you in the minority that prefers retail version beat. Tbh not feeling that disco type vibe of radio version lol.

Rhymes are DOPE either way especially Meth & UGod. Golden Arms💪🏽🎤💪🏽 really shone on this album 👐🏽 PEACE

Love how from back when the album dropped until now people still agree that this is the album where U God finally showed his full potential, but it was unfortunately on one of their worst received albums..

I disagree it's a masterpiece... It's listenable with a few very good tracks IMO

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Originally Posted by hiphopjunky

I disagree it's a masterpiece... It's listenable with a few very good tracks IMO

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https://media.tenor.com/images/a3c40...c0b3/tenor.gif

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Originally Posted by josborne3680

I know IÂ’m in the minority here but I like the retail version of Wolves way better. Peace

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Retail is far superior. Darker and more fitting of the album.

The early radio version is the same sample as Ultramagnetic MCs - Moe Luvs Theme - and it works way better on that track.

'Masterpiece' is most certainly an exaggeration, but it's a great album. I've always loved it and never gave a fuck what those entitled cry babies, Rae and ghost had to say about it.

All the clan albums r still highly enjoyable listens, to this day, apart from abt which never was and never will be. Still an ok listen, but definitely a shit album all in all.

Agreed Noel! I've always really enjoyed this album. Ghost and Rae cry way too much and then put out trash albums themselves.