im interested in this, becouse i know many black people and rappers worldwide belive in Elijah Muhammad's Islam. express your believs..
im and Atheist so I'll be quiet...
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im interested in this, becouse i know many black people and rappers worldwide belive in Elijah Muhammad's Islam. express your believs..
im and Atheist so I'll be quiet...
I'm an agnostic Buddhist who borrows from both as I find useful for improving my life. I ignore the more disturbing/fucked up parts of Nation Of Islam teachings and I don't believe Arabian Islam to be literally true, beyond the fact I believe Muhammad had an encounter with Direct Reality.
And since I can see this turning into a religious argument we've already had here a dozen times, I am telling y'all 5%ers and Sunnis that I'm not arguing with either of you about my position. I'll explain it further but that's it.
Those are not the only forms of "islam". I do not ascribe to any of them. But, I believe in all the holy books to come from God. I believe in doing good and take the Quran as revelation from God that has not been tampered with. At the same time though, I get knowledge from where ever to benefit me.
I believe in Islam, as it was first revealed. Without the sectarianism and inevitable bullshit that it brings. I'm Muslim. Period. Not Sunni, not Shia, not Nation of Islam, not Sufi, not 5%.
Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.) was Muslim, as were his Companions (Ridy Allahu Anhu), so there's no reason for me to follow anything else, because I've broken enough Rules in my life.
Plus, having love for any and all who call themselves any kind of Muslim, so long as they respect my foundation has been a plus. I'm sure I'm one of the only ones who actually felt bad about seeing a Shia Mosque in ruins. But that's just it, even in Qur'an it tells us to safeguard all Holy Houses. Mosques, Synagogues and Churches, because the fact of the matter is, God's Name is mentioned in those houses.
That's where I stand though. Do you, but don't lose your humanity.
Peace
I'm curious; you "believe" in all of the books for God, yet you do not want to follow the beliefs of the religions? I'm trying to put myself in your position but I can't understand how that works.Quote:
Originally Posted by diggy
To be honest I don't call my self a Sunni usually, since I don't really like to put myself into a "box", but if people ask, which most people do, I wont just argue with them because I've learnt it gets you no where so I'll just say; "if I really had to say what "sect" (I hate that word) I am, I'd say Sunni"Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz
I find it REAL hard to believe that everyone on this website, or even this bizarre majority is muslim. Just cause it's the cool 'wutang' religion.
wow. your all gonna deny it but your only lying to yourself, my mind is made up about you and your not gonna change it by denying anything. Just remember, you changed your religion for wu-tang....your connection to god...for wu-tang.
wow.
I appreciate your opinions...
Yeah, personally I'm an apostate of Islam and I'm now an agnostic, but I still read the books and try to get some knowledge and insights on how I can live my life as a better person. I'm also interested in getting a Bible and other holy books, maybe later on. People find me a weirdo because I still perform wudu before I touch the Quran, but I just believe that it's still an important holy scripture, and if that's how it was prescribed many years ago, then I should follow through with that out of respect and be clean when I touch it.Quote:
Originally Posted by diggy
I never understood why there are differentiations of believers in Islam, actually. Read the book, and follow it if you believe in it...one of my friends is a really wise guy, I go to his house often and we settle in and read the Quran once in awhile with his wife. He always explains what the text means to me and then breaks it down as to how I can apply it to myself. He doesn't believe in any different forms of Islam. He said once to me, "Just read the book, and don't get blindsided by the politics. The truth is in the scriptures, and nowhere else."
lmao. Well, if people are so inspired and affected by the Wu-Tang Clan that it ignites their curiosity in the religion and they learn more about it, then what's so bad about that? In fact it's a positive that something like the Wu could inspire people like that. It's not a negative thing. Unless you're saying all these peeps are just posers who don't know nothing about Islam and just play like they do...Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaShaolinAssassin
Neither.
I have nothing to contribute to this discussion.
Have a nice day.
i believe in my own islam.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WIA
I agree. Read the Quran or whatever text u wanna read, and come up with your own understanding. Listen to others understanding of it, but accept it if it it rational or proovable. But, the bottom line is, come up with your own understanding and follow nobody. It says in the Quran
"Do not accept anything that you yourself cannot verify.
Surely your hearing, your eyesight and your mind will be questioned" Sura 17:36.
I understand that.Quote:
Originally Posted by CeeDot
Most people have no knowledge of Al-Islam and the true ways thereof are underlined by Qur'an and Sunnah. Guess I should lighten up when asked from now on, instead of givin' 'em a scroll.
If you're Muslim in the sense that you don't see yourself as God then why not tell them that Islam has no sects? If God's word exist to unite the brotherhood of mankind why would His followers accept that division amongst themselves?Quote:
Originally Posted by CeeDot
In my life I've come to realize that people will often follow negative behavior because it has become tradition. The sooner we all fight to permanetly derail bad trains of thought in our own personal lives, and the sooner those who have seeds teach their children a more righteous path, regardless of what provokes that inclination, the sooner we will all wake up to a world that makes sense.
One should not accept the ignorance around them simply because you happen to be floating in a sea of it.
There is land out there beyond the horizon and completely beyound what the eyes can see. And while all five senses tell me that all hope is lost, I know we'll eventually reach the shore if we can just keep on swimming.
peace to all
I hate it when you talk to a fucking sheep. Like I was talking to my sister one time about homosexuality and she said it's wrong because God says so, and had no other arguments against it. And I said, "Well the person doesn't do it maliciously to disobey God. It's what is natural to them...", and she just said, "Well they're going to hell and getting sinned anyway cause Allah said so, so eff you I win!!" hah...like if you have no other rationale for your beliefs and scorn others with no other reason than "God said so" that really turns me off.Quote:
Originally Posted by diggy
As if the bible, especially the new testament, didn't warn against rash judgement and lack of compassion. "let he without sin cast the first stone" right? People who follow religion so they can wear it on their shirt like a badge almost always seem like a perversion of what they preach. I try to let people know by my actions, not what I say.Quote:
Originally Posted by WIA
Good point...people forget so easily about the goods religion should teach. I know my real fam was only concerned with the baseline beliefs of the 5 pillars of Islam. Always prayed, always fasted, gave their zakah, planned on going to Hajj. Never was I taught what I could get out of religion, just what I was supposed to be giving to Allah. You should realize your place is not to be the judge anyone and cast them to Hell or Paradise if you truly believe in God. Too bad I had that conversation when I was 13. My developing brain seeds about all this were practically nonexistent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions Unseen
Though it may not seem like it at the time, 16 is still a very young age to be, still plenty of time for growth, new experiences, etc Your friend gave the best advice when saying that reading it yourself is best. Pay attention most to what gives you the greatest understanding and inspiration and go from there.Quote:
Originally Posted by WIA
I like the word spiritually so much better than religion. It doesn't seem like the point would be to go through ritualistic dogma but to better understand yourself, and therefore the world around you. And even then, not just as what the world is as what the world should be. I have my own short comings just like every one else but I try to be an example of that inner vision I have for that world in the hopes that somewhere along the way people will see it everywhere.
i say follow islam how u think is best. dnt let others tell u what to do. at the end of the day allah will judge u, not some imam.
Hell I know I'm young! That's why I said developing and not developed lol. I feel like I had a lot of life experience and been forced to mature a lot in a few short years. From the time i was 14 (I'm almost 17 now...) i left my home and shit due to family issues. I was down and out. I felt really lost and all that. Even though I never believed in God since I was like 9, I started to hate all religion and just feel really bitter about it. I didn't even wanna look at any holy book, I felt like I didn't need it to tell me how to live my life because God wasn't doing anything for me. After I realized that it's not about that....even if you don't believe in God there's still mad knowledge and wisdom in those books to be learned. Even just reading the stories, like Adam and Eve, can teach you lessons as you interpret them on your own.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions Unseen
^^ Yo i feel you. Props!
Quote:
Originally Posted by WIA
idc man i think a lot of them are frontin. The inspiration part is all good, i like that, but you know how it is with internet. 25% of white kids are black, no girl admits she's ugly in real life, and everyone's tough. people claim a lot of stuff on here. a lot of stuff.
what i really hate is the ones that try and make it a "christianity was imposed on you it's not your true religion" "Islam is the true religion cause white ppl didn't teach you it"
bitch please. Muslims had slaves longer and harder then europeans, and forced africans to be muslim, as well as kill a lot of them to spread islam. North Africa didn't used to look so arab, so idk why islam is legit on this site and christianity isn't. They're the same thing.
Well, I'm not going to fool myself into believing there is no "sects" in Islam because people have made it that way, whether I agree with it or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions Unseen
I don't get what you mean.
for most of that I was speaking in metaphor.Quote:
Originally Posted by CeeDot
I don't understand why people give power to sectarian ways when the Quran clearly is against it. sunni this, shiite that, its a perversion of what is clearly stated.
I imagine its mostly due to tradition but it seems you should clense yourself of those thought patterns and the sooner the better. The brotherhood of man was intented as one. How can we be one when everyone is standing behind giant brick walls they've built for themselves?
This could make your head explode.Quote:
Originally Posted by diggy
Well yeah but "Sunni" Muslims follow Quran and Sunnah, and I don't actually think that's what "Shi'as" follow. I'm not sure though. So if Sunnis follow what the Prophet did, they can't be wrong, right? If Shias don't how can we all come together and get rid of "sects" when we have some different beliefs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions Unseen
By the way: I've read through that ^. And some of it may sound erm, offensive to Shias, if so it wasn't intended.
I'm at work so my Quran's not handy but there's a verse that says "And on this day I have perfected your religion". If God perfected religion then why does it need amendments? So if the Shia's aren't following the Quran what makes 'em Muslim in the first place?Quote:
Originally Posted by CeeDot
You have to ask them, I mean - we can't say they're not Muslims if they say they are. No matter what they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions Unseen
I'm saying that they're reading the Quran just like you are but somewhere along the way they became "different". Could you explain to me the differences between the two? (shiites and sunnis)Quote:
Originally Posted by CeeDot
What the heck is "Arabic Islam?"
Imperial1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions Unseen
The very fact that they hate each other and differ as to their belief ( by calling themselves sunnis or shiites--something prophet Muhammad did not do PBUH) should tell u they are not practicing the teachings from Quran, but rather opinions and tradition.
1. All Sunnis and Shias don't hate each other. They do in places like Iran, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by diggy
2. The Prophet PBUH didn't call people Shias or Sunnis because they weren't "around" in those days. It was much easier to follow Islam "correctly" if you were living in the time, and place of the Prophet PBUH.
None of the above
So is "islam" not easy to follow correctly these days? And why is that?Quote:
Originally Posted by CeeDot
Are you implying that "muslims" are in the wrong in the way they practice "islam"?
And if Prophet PBUH did not call him self shia/sunni, then why do "muslims" these days make that distinction between themselves and for what reason?
Are they really following Prophet PBUH, or did they add/make something new ( by making the distinction of sunni/shia/wahabi/salafi/etc)?
Is the way "muslims" are practicing "islam" ( sunni/shia) the way God or Prophet intended it? In other words, was it the plan of Prophet PBUH or God to make people divided into so many sects, each claiming to be the rightly guided?
You really dont know the difference between sunni and shiia?Quote:
Originally Posted by diggy
After the death of the prophet Muhhammed, a group of people didnt recognize Abu Bakr as a khalife (ruler of the muslim world) even this one has been put on the "throne" by Muhammed himself before he dies. They (shiia) claim that a man from the family of the prophet should rule, and this man should be Ali (the cousin of the prophet). thats where the separation happends...and a conflict start between the two branch (the first one ; the followers of the khalife Abu Bakr were named Sunni coz they follow the Sunna wich is the will of Muhammed).
later, the shiia divide from alot of islam rules, some of them even claim that Gabriel made a mistake by speakin to the prophet Muhammed and he made an error coz he was sent to speak to Ali. they also nowerdays have strange practices like auto-mutilation that has nothing to do with islam (remember the large groups of people with knifes and whips slammin their backs with their weapons that were shown over the tv's of the world).
thats a lil bit of what i know, if someone has other infos, please post em.
peace
I'm not shia but I'll tell it from their perspective as I've heard the best I can. They believe Muhammad showed favor to Ali but a political situation occured where others claimed Abu Bakr was his true heir. The belief Ali is the true heir to Muhammad is derived from several sayings of Muhammad and quotes that refer to Ali as the leader of true believers and one whom the Muslims have to follow to understand Muhammad (I'm writing this from memory so I dont have these quotes handy). Ali, being very noble (as he is always portrayed in Shia writings), did not take power so that there would be no conflict. The name Shia means party and comes from their full name the Party of Ali. They split after Ali's assasination, which was seen as proof the other Muslims were misled.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellspawn
Shias also believe the Qur'an has meanings under the surface meaning that the Sunnis have missed hence what Sunnis would consider strange beliefs which are held to be the maintained oral tradition from Muhammad of the book's meaning.
The whipping and sword thing is in memory of the Battle of Karbala which is somehow significant (it's a battle the shias lost and the self-mutilation is in mourning.)
My recommendation is to ask the Shias about the Shias because the Sunnis and the Shias have many theological arguments and when you get information on a minority from a larger majority, there is always room for misinterpretation of practices and beliefs.
The idea that Islam would be split into sects is not as the faith was to be - for it is a universal faith to unify. Muhammad's criticism torwards Christianity was that it had split into disagreements and sects, so the fact that Shia islam split (90%+ of Muslims in the world are Sunni) is seen as kind of an insult to Muhammad and to Islam in general to most Muslims. That is why there are such extreme tensions, not to mention the class struggles involved between the two. It mostly has to do with upper and lower class fighting - which happen to be split through leadership lines, not by "religious differences." That's a misconception of the Western media.
^^co-sign
it's all about power----> political conflict