Anyone seen this?
http://www.dailymotion.com/BLACKMUSI...avery_politics
Thats pretty heavy.
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Anyone seen this?
http://www.dailymotion.com/BLACKMUSI...avery_politics
Thats pretty heavy.
White Slavery in Asia and Africa
During the Middle Ages, European slaves were sold to Africans and Asians. White people, particularly Slavs, were despised as an inferior race in the non-European world. The 8th century conquests of the Abbassids in Europe, Asia, and Africa resulted in the enslavement of native populations. Romans, Franks, Persians, Hindus, Kurds, Ethiopians, Sudanese, Berbers and Armenians were brought to Baghdad as slaves. Consumer resources were even developed to help slave buyers make an 'informed' purchase decision when faced with such a diverse array of 'goods' - an 11th century Baghdadi doctor wrote a book Risala fi shari al-raqiq on the purchase of slaves, giving advice such as "blue eyes denote stupidity" and "wide eyes indicate laziness"
Europeans continued to be slaves in the Arab world for centuries to come. When the Mongols conquered large parts of Russia in the 13th century, they sold their new subjects in the slave markets of West Asia and North Africa. One Russian chronicler, describing the enslavement of his people by the Mongols, wrote, "The (Mongols) ... learn warfare from their youth. Therefore, they are stern, fearless and fierce towards us ... We cannot oppose them, but humiliate ourselves before them..." 21 The Mongol's Slavic slave trade filled the harems of Turkish sultans with Slavic women. Slavic men did hard labor for Muslim masters, while Slavic children were sold in slave auctions from Cairo to Baghdad. While Eastern Europeans comprised of the bulk of European slaves, Scandinavians captured by marauding pirates were also trafficked to Arab lands.22
Contrary to the common belief that sub-Saharan Africa had a strictly one-sided role in the slave trade - only exporting slaves and not importing them - medieval writings show it is not so. When 14th century North African travel writer Ibn Battuta journeyed to West Africa, he noted without any surprise that a black governor he visited owned an Arab slave girl from Syria.23 When the the 60,000-strong entourage of Emperor Musa of the Mali empire passed through Cairo on their way to Mecca in 1324, Cairo-born historian al-Maqurizi reported that the West Africans purchased Turkish slave girls, in addition to slaves of other ethnicities.24 In fact, the Mandingoes spent so much gold on slaves and goods in the markets of Cairo that they caused an inflation which lasted more than 12 years.
Pre-modern Arab ideas on race
Medieval Arab literature indicates that West Asian views on black Africans during the medieval era were very dim and echo their modern prejudices. However, premodern Arab racial bigotry also extended to their opinions of Europeans. Medieval Arabs described with shock and disgust the allegedly low hygiene standards, animal characteristics, stupidity and superstitious ignorance of Europeans:
Geographer and philologist al-Bakri (d 1094 CE) says of the Galatians:
"They are treacherous, dirty, and bathe once or twice a year, then with cold water. They never wash their clothes until they are worn out because they claim the dirt accumulated as the result of the sweat softens their body."
Official and Historian Usamah Ibn Munqidh described Crusaders in the Holy Land:
"I saw Franks as like animals possessing courage and fighting prowess though their character is rude. Their medical knowledge is in a crude state for I saw a Frankish physician cut off a leg on which an abscess has grown, causing the man's death. A woman afflicted with imbecility was diagnosed as possessed by the devil, the physician recommended for her the shaving of her head, and as her case worsened, he made a deep cruciform incision on her head, to chase the devil away, but the woman died in the process."
Arab Scholar Sa'id Al-Andalusi's opinion on whites:
"Their temperaments are frigid, their humors raw. They lack keenness of understanding and clarity of intelligence, and are overcome by ignorance and dullness, lack of discernment and stupidity."
White slaves fetched higher prices than black slaves in Arab slave markets, which would indicate that medieval Arabs thought more lowly of blacks than they did of whites.6 Nevertheless, I am of the opinion that the gap in black/white status in Arab opinion has been magnified by modern Western influence on Arab world views. Medieval Arabs, unlike slavery-era Euro-Americans, often accepted the children they had with black slaves as their own heirs. A famous example is Al-Mustansir, the 18th Imam-Caliph of the Fatimid dynasty. His father was the previous Caliph and his mother was a Nubian concubine.7 And one of the most famous of Arab writers, Ibn Battuta, has repeatedly expressed favorable opinions of black Africans in his writings. He rates the women of Mali as being of "surpassing beauty". The medieval North African globetrotter traveled subSaharan Africa, Europe and Asia (as far as China) and never failed to record his observations of the women of various nations. This high praise for the beauty of West African women came from a man who has seen many races.
Modern Asian attitudes towards black and white
The Shanghainese are known for admiring Western civilization. One in four Shanghainese sons-in-law are foreign (including foreign-born Chinese and other Asians). Many Chinese parents boast proudly of daughters married to European/Euro-North American men. This enthusiastic reception for white foreigners contrasts with the prevalent Chinese belief, held even by members of the supposedly non-racist Communist party, that people of African descent are unredeemably savage. But was the white-good-black-bad mentality part of Chinese tradition? Or is it a product of Western imperialism?
Koreans and Japanese have similar attitudes towards blacks and whites. Japanese animation is full of beautiful, sexy and heroic white characters. A European woman who saw Sailor Moon noted with much amusement, "If this is Japanese animation, why do none of the characters look Japanese?" The few black characters in other works of Japanese animation are mostly negative or marginal. The recent LA riots in the US testify to the damaging effects of Korean attitudes towards blacks. Generally, white consumers are treated better than black consumers in Korean establishments. Many Koreans and Japanese dye their hair blonde, brown or red. Blue and green contact lenses are also popular among young East Asians.
Southeast Asians, wherever they're living in the world, also express similar white-is-better-than-black attitudes. A black Amerasian living in Vietnam said he wished he was a white Amerasian instead. A Filipino American woman who ran an Asian social group allowed white friends and partners of members to attend but came up with an excuse ("Asians only") when a group member wanted to bring a black friend. A South Asian woman recalled with horror a stranger knocking on her door, expressly noting it was "an African American man". Race is almost never tagged onto descriptions of white strangers.
Pre-modern Asian ideas on 'race'
Apparently, the white-is-right attitude so prevalent today was not always the norm.
Standards of beauty in South and Southeast Asia:
Marco Polo reports on the Dravidians of South India:
"It is a fact that in this country when a child is born they anoint him once a week with oil of sesame, and this makes him grow much darker than when he was born. For I assure you that the darkest man is here the most highly esteemed and considered better than those who are not so dark. Let me add that in very truth these people portray and depict their gods and idols black and their devils white as snow. For they say that God and all the saints are black and the devils are all white..."
In the Chinese record Nan Tsi Chou, a Chinese traveler to Southeast Asia wrote that the local people "consider black the most beautiful." Although modern Filipinos prize the 'high-nosed', oval-faced European-blooded individual as beautiful, some even going as far as to pinch their children's nose bridges in the hopes of achieving a higher nose, this has not always been the case. Prior to European colonization, the ancient Visayans of the Philippines considered the very opposite of high noses and oval faces handsome. Visayans, as well as some other Austronesian peoples in Malaysia and Indonesia, compressed their babies' skulls to achieve broad faces with receding foreheads and flat noses . The Minahasa of Celebes even restricted binding with a forehead board to the nobility.
Old Chinese views on Caucasians:
By traditional Chinese opera conventions, a black face is considered nobler. Actors wear masks that denote the character's qualities. A pre-dominantly black face indicates courage, righteousness and incorruptibility. A pre-dominantly white face indicates craftiness, deceit and knavery. Ming Dynasty China records even state that Caucasians, especially blondes, are physically unattractive:
Huihui are shaggy with big noses, and Qipchags have light hair and blue eyes. Their appearance is vile and peculiar, so there are those (Chinese) who do not wish to marry them.
This distaste for blondes is a stark contrast to the worship of European standards of beauty so prevalent among modern Asians. Today's Chinese boast about their Caucasian sons-in-law or husbands. Instead of attributing the worship of whites, or the vilification of whites, for that matter, to "natural" perceptions of racial hierarchy, it should be remembered that standards of beauty shift through time.
Read up.
And heres some raw white humour:
*uck you.
P E A C E
What's this all about?
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...ldier/Umad.jpg
Man its just History that i felt like putting here after reading that Elijah Muhammad S*it.Quote:
Originally Posted by CS
Its like arabs getting away from everything and now all the s*it is white europeans fault.
Thats as much wrong way of seeing history as thinking that aliens build the pyramids, you know.
Peace.
true shit.
ppl don't know the word Slave comes from the word Slav.
and the arab slave trade went on for a lot longer (in some places still is)
then the european one
when you go to work and make someone else rich and receive just enough to keep you going to work.. you are a slave
Oppression + Racism + Slavery = ?
Interesting, actually I find it amusing seeing these NOI black americans taking arabic names, when you know what's up, but after all they do what they want.
Slavery still exist in Africa trust me, I witnessed it. When you go in countries that are at the border of black Africa, such as Mauritania, you can see how the arabs treat the "khels", the blacks: it's nothing else but slavery.
Let me get this right. 911 happened. It was blamed on Arabs and Islam. Hatred towards Arabs and Islam is now tolerated and encouraged. Now the white man wants to take his evil past and say it is not as bad as what the Arabs did.
It's also interesting that most of the new converts to Islam are African Americans. What a good way to deter them to convert by linking Islam and Arabs to slavery ( which by the way was practiced long before Islam).
This is not about trying to *uck with Islam in a way how youre trying to make me sound.Quote:
Originally Posted by diggy
First of all.. Where i live in europe, we have mosques & muslisms all over. And secondly, i dont care about USA in a way that it would make a huge impact on my life if Jihadist blow up WTC. No offence to any american.
All im saying that the Islam nation existed for centuries. Why couldnt it be tru?
What do you think happened in africa/middle-east during dark ages of europe?
Slavery itself has been ""Socially Acceptable"" once, but now its an Evil act.
Crazy how now, north american always bring back 911 when Arab or Islam is pronounced ... Your simplified american formated vision of the world has nothing to do with the content of this interesting topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by diggy
By the way, with the topic about great African empires, the quality of topics is increasing in KTL. Props to the starters.
Look if your trying to make the connection with islam and slavery your totaly off track, dont mix religon with culture/tradition, all people of the ancient world delt with slaves, they existed before the arrival of islam in the middle east, the only thing islam did to the slaves is give them more rights, and called for them to be emancipated, there were even worse horrors before the arrival of islam in the middle east, i think you should make a more relevant important thread something like
HOW THE WEST BUILT THERE ECONOMY ON THE BACKS OF SLAVES
OR "CIVILISED" COCASIONS INVADE AFRICA AND CREATE A MODERN-ERA SLAVE TRADE
taking about islam and slavery is irrelevant, arrogant and a waste of time
the real mofos were the fuckers who created the modern slave trade, not ancient arabian slaves who proberly had more rights then slaves in the british/american slave trade
But youre missing my point here.Quote:
Originally Posted by sidious_katana
We are looking at history where parts are forgotten, fabricated or false.
So in your mind its okay to slave people aslong as they have few rights?
If that is true, then how the Hell is American slavery more important to mention than middle eastern?
I can be arrogant but you seem to be a lot less than that..
Did you read what i wrote dude? iam saying its irrelevant and stupid talkin about the connection with islam and slavery, because it existed before islam and before judaism, your mixing up islam with the middle east...thats what iam saying so if you want to talk about middle eastern slavery which dident effect the world anywhere near how bad western slavery affected it rename the thread middle eastern slavery...yeah
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidious_katana
What exactly makes western slave trade worse than middle eastern?
And im not mixing up anything.
Slavery still continued after Muhammad was born. And im not saying it didnt exist before.
Ok ima put this nice and simple for you:
In the ancient times/middle ages there was a lot of slavery going on all over the world, that is well established, it was there before and after muhammed,jesus,moses and any other major figures because it was needed back in those days thats how it worked there were no civil rights no decleration of freedom no geneva convention, it was dog eat dog and only the strong survive so its understandable
The trans-atlantic slave trade was in a different league to ancient slavery it was diabolical,cold and nomadic why?? because it happened from the 17th century to the 19th the period documented as the "new world" dont get it twisted cause in terms of history the slave trade was recent and was undertook by "civilised" men of the new age not barbarians or pagans but civilised suit-wearing "leaders of the free world" the fact is america and the uk built what stands today off the back of the atlantic slave trade, i mean come on 99% of black people in the uk and usa still go by there slave names and heritage, and there are still slaving there asses off for their white masters...
Thats why its more important then ancient arabian slavery that had nothing to do with the west......
But youre not telling anything new to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by sidious_katana
How can you say that arabic slavery has nothing to do with trans-atlantic slavery if they indeed SLAVED more people than "diabolic west"?
What in teh hell has a Suit to do with slavery?
Does wearing suit make you worse than if you wear an arabic robe?
true fact:
today (today) there are more enslaved people than ever before. slavery was never abolished; it was made illegal - and as any person who is not naive knows, people break laws all the time.
as for the "end" of slavery in Europe, again it never ended. in the late 19th century, for example, there are records of a mine sale in the nederlands which included the workers, basically the ensnared local villagers. throughout the 20th century slavery has been centrally incorporated in the penal system (in liberal democracies), and has occurred even more overtly in fascist and soviet polities. throughout sex slaves and enslaved child workers have been used. today Moldova, like Mauritania, could be considered a hub of slavery.
finally, while we all (should) know the European roots of the word "slave", also note that the term "enthralled" includes the root word "thrall" which is a Northern European (sorry can't remember the language but do look it up) word for slave. To enthrall - in contemporary usage means 'to enslave' or 'to captivate' attention, in the past it meant to physically place into bondage.
"But youre not telling anything new to me.
How can you say that arabic slavery has nothing to do with trans-atlantic slavery if they indeed SLAVED more people than "diabolic west"?
What in teh hell has a Suit to do with slavery?
Does wearing suit make you worse than if you wear an arabic robe?"
i hate bitches like you in KTL focusing on small comments i make because thats the only thing you can rebutte against, there were men of the "new world" there were more civilised ethical and intelligent then ancient peoples, there crimes still permeate todays soceity, arab slavery was very different, the slave had a choice to work for himself, the slave had to sign a contract if he was too make money for his master, he could do things that collectivley lead to his emancipation, the altlantic trade was one of brutality,inhumanity and arrogance with no rights declared to the slave
so if your main point is the arab slave trade was bigger then the atlantic slave trade (to certain historans) that is true, but the slaves back in the middle ages enjoyed more freedoms then the slaves in the "new world" has it sunk in yet, do you see where iam going......for fucks sake
^^ yes there are/were qualitative differences in the nature of Arab and Western slavery - and there are/were qualitative differences within Western slave systems (eg Spanish vs. British vs. American). i think this debate however is bankrupt since the problem for me is not one of which system is worse, but rather why slavery is so integral to the economic history of these societies.
for me - and i don't care who disagrees - slavery is wrong on the grounds of its waste of human potential and freedom, not on account of its differing experiences of pain and suffering.
slavery is wrong...of course ...we are civilised modern people, but so were the people in the 17th-19th century to an extent, but they disregarded there humanitarian values in sake of money and prosperity much the same with the rulers of the world today
AND BY THE WAY WE ARE ALL STILL SLAVES, THE DIFFERENCE IS WE HAVE BEEN ENSLAVED MENTALY NOT PHYSICALY
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidious_katana
So we need to make the conclusion that all the slaves and colors have the Most rights in america nowdays. If slavery still exists as mental slavery?
Or is that too abstract or are we too modern and cizilized?
All im saying is that the arabs started slaving africans and that eventually led to american african slavery.
And for the fact. Northern Europe was also one of the first places where slavery was uncommon in europe.
so after reading that elijah muhammad shit, you know what he says about the arabs right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alijannu
Do you know the difference between an arabic name and an islamic/muslim name?Quote:
Originally Posted by WU-KILLAH
you on some bullshit here man, if you cant seriously rebutte what i said, dont focus on little comments and twist it, KTL has too many cats who do that shit...your wrong with your focus on this thread.... it is going nowhere!!, wtf??? america has the most rights for slaves?? you crazy duke, mentaly slavery is all over the world and its a fuckin disgrace to humanity, you seem to like the slave shitQuote:
Originally Posted by Alijannu
you wanna blame arabz for everything well arabs have nothing to do with the cock sucking founders of america and the uk government back in those days it was there choice to sell humans for money, the arabs had nutink to do with it
Ill stab elijah muhammed in his eye..he tihnks hes god fuck that!!! dont read his shit its bullshit propaganda from an ego inflated old foolQuote:
Originally Posted by Black Man
Do you know the difference between an arab nation and an islamic nation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alijannu
When speaking on slavery it's important to specify the type of "slavery" you are speaking of because "voluntary" slavery is much different from "chattel" slavery and that's different from "serfdom", they all are regarded as slavery but they are all different.
Speaking on "social" there's many societies that exist within one region. Everybody doesn't share the same social equality.
Voluntary
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Man
Should i be worried?
black man is white by the way.......
This I disagree with, talking about islam and slavery is very relevent! I say it is arrogant to regard the above subject matter arrogant and a waste of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by sidious_katana
There was no middle east in those times so trying to make that connection can't happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by sidious_katana
whatever you want to call that part of land whiteman, arabia, middle east.. it does not matter
Why is it relevant and if it is relevant you should be highlighting that arabian slavery gave slaves the most rights out of all that slave trades that existedQuote:
Originally Posted by Black Man
THE ARABIAN SLAVE TRADE HAD A GREAT DEAL TO DO WITH THE WEST.Quote:
Originally Posted by sidious_katana
I WONDER WHY PEOPLE NEGLECT THE SLAVES THAT WERE TAKEN FROM INDIA AND BROUGHT TO EUROPE, AFRICA, NORTH AND SOUTH AMERICA?
there is no neglect....only a dude wandering why you put so much blame on the arabians for the actions of the american and british governemnts.....
hey come to think of it, not much has changed then..hahahaha
HOW DO YOU MEASURE THE AMOUNT OF FREEDOM AN INDIVIDUAL OR COLLECTIVE GROUP OF PEOPLE HAVE/HAD?Quote:
Originally Posted by sidious_katana;1069046
i hate bitches like you in KTL focusing on small comments i make because thats the only thing you can rebutte against, there were men of the "new world" [B
THE ARABS PLAYED AN IMPORTANT PART IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE WEST, THE AMERICAS.Quote:
Originally Posted by sidious_katana
I REMEMBER SPEAKING WITH THIS MUSLIM FROM THE SUDAN AND HE WAS SPEAKING ON THE HISTORY OF ARAB/MUSLIM NATION AND SLAVERY BOTH PAST AND MODERN. THERE'S A CONNECTION TO SAY THE LEAST.
ISN'T THAT THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK? AND YOU HAD THE NERVE TO SPEAK ON ANOTHER PERSON ATTACKING INSIGNIFICAN THINGS YOU SAY AND NOW YOU WANT TO MAKE THIS STATEMENT WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS THREAD. HYPOCRITE!Quote:
Originally Posted by sidious_katana