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not many people like to think or talk about, because they think it's too far-fetched to occur frequently. but Rwanda, the Holocaust and Stalin proved otherwise. talk about some genocides that you know of, and which do you think is the worst so far... Genghis Khan might get the honor for most ruthless genocide leader. he literally wiped out civilizations
the armenian genocide was fucked up. so was the native americans in north and south america
Ghengis Khan always asked for his opponents to surrender before he attacked, when they didnt he brutally wiped them out. he didnt have a particular hate for other races apart from the Chinese.
the so called Armenian genocide is bullshit in my mind. no nation in the world listens to the Turkish side of the story, no one weighs in what actually happened. nations jus listen to dickhead Armenians cause of their bitterness at the fact that they werent able to conquer Turkey.
Khan was hell-bent on dominating the world, and he probably came closer to achieving that than anybody else in history. not sure how much land he conquered by the time he died, but it was a lot. more than what Hitler occupied during WWII. though I'm not sure what he was planning to do if he had succeeded.
btw we studied the Assyrians in my western civilization class for a bit. those motherfuckers were crazy. according to the professor, they were the first army to come up with biological, chemical and even psychological warfare. they'd poison water supplies and shit. as for the "psychological warfare," it was basically them throwing paper to the enemy stating "surrender or die" lol
Ghengis Khan was bothered with conquering China, the world was never on his agenda until his invasion of Persia. After he wiped out Persia he turnt to southern China. his empire at the time of his death was twice the size of Rome, his sons and grandchildren took it further with the invasion of the middle east and eastern europe. Its said during the mongolian era 40million ppl died. which is a fucking lot considering the world population at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by theheavens
i heard lot of talking about that armenian genocide on tv mostly, how turkey should accept responsibility and face with what they did and such...Quote:
Originally Posted by HAN
I'm curious what is turkish side od the story?
The Turkish side is simple our empire was crumbling the Armenians spurred on and armed by Russia and France started attacking the Turks. because the Armenians were causing too much trouble in the east the Turks decided to send the Armenians on pretty much a death march to Syria.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogah
Armenians call it Genocide, Turks say that both sides suffered casualties and remind everyone that the Armenians had actually started it all. There is no proof that the Ottomans planned to ethnically cleanse the Armenians. no concentration camps or shit like that. Turks dnt deny the death of Armenians, we say look a lot of shit happened but planting blame solely on us is ridiculous. Turkey says to the Armenians look lets sit down together go through our archives and see what happened, Armenian refuse to do so. they refuse to open their archives for historians to look through. you can go to Istanbul now and if you can read Ottoman you can look at every piece of Ottoman document that existed. We got nothing to hide but the Armenians obviously do.
Turkey will never ever accept it as genocide, the Armenian demands are beyond ridiculous. they start from $40billion in compensation, automatic Turkish citizenship for all Armenians and Turkey handing over Eastern Turkey to Armenia. never gonna happen.
Yea, I agree with Han.
do they have a number of native americans that were massacred?
u guys should check out the east timor massacre, 200k plus murderedin such a small place, indonesia backed by USA basically destroyed them
they weren't massacred. 90% of them succumbed to smallpox. It ravaged them and it was a result of the culture clash. Many of the Europeans got malaria, while the Natives were immune to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by theheavens
Had it not been for smallpox, Natives would have had more of a stake in things.
maybe not the majority, but I've read about many native americans being taken, tribe by tribe, and massacred on the spot. and the smallpox wasn't an accident
yes it was.
Im not saying that they didnt give them infected blankets, but the overall spread of smallpox would have occured anyway with any kind of contact.
Its not like europeans didnt succomb to smallpox either, it just wasnt as deadly for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theheavens
i can co sign this. allthough i can't say that Nicky's claims are false.
even my history book in junior high mentioned native americans being massacred, and that's the last text you'd expect to make a claim like that... as for the smallpox being an accident or not, I'm not ready to give white folks the benefit of the doubt on that one. so those motherfuckers knew
Not to lessen the gravity of the culling of Native Americans by colonists, but there were massacres on both sides. There was never an attempt at genocide. There were attempts at slavery, cultural annihilation, and of course reservations. But never genocide. We were planning to integrate, subjugate, or isolate them. But not annihilate. The smallpox thing was largely unintended with exceptions during a few battles where it was used militarily on an isolated scale.
Look....if you are going to debate a historical topic with a prejudice, you lose all credibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by theheavens
All sources indicate that most Native Americans, alarming amounts perished from smallpox. The spread of the disease was not a diabolical scheme by 'whites'.
The term 'whites' is also showing your ignorance because the same thing happened in South American and Mexico but to a little lesser extent because there were less Spanish and Portugese.
There were massacres on both sides, do not get it twisted.
Smallpox was a huge deciding factor, unintendedly.
If want to give the Europeans credit for that, than fine, but its basis is not very sturdy.
I realize that you are probably a racist person with 'issues with whitey', which is why you would be so adamant about a claim you reallly have no backing for.
But this is KTL after all, so I'll take it and you for what they both are.
Well the Brits did give them some small pox infected blankets in hopes they'd catch it at a couple forts but that's not really a genocide, just a common mean trick no different then Ghengis Khan's use of plague catapults leading to all of Europe catching the bubonic. Diseases are like fire, its very hard to control them.
i already stated that they did that.
Only an ignorant would say what happened to the native americans wasn't a genocide.
in every aspect of the word it was a genocide. small pox was used as a deliberate weapon, there's documentation of this, so you can't say they 'caught small pox' all out of nowhere.
hundreds of villages were wiped out by state militias, civil militias, and the federal army by gun and cannon, the mid-western tribes in particular.
after centuries of deliberate genocide they started taking indian kids and basically forcing them to be white to speed up the process.
i didn't know all that about ghenis though.
its sad, but history will praise any murderer if given enough time.
the smallpox epidemic wasn't genocide.
Unless you want to give the English that much props.
Unless you want to think that the Spanish are that fuckin raw that 1,000 of them could wipe out 10 million Aztecs.
I think it was a fortunate accident.
and fuck genocide anyway. Its part of the way you do business.
Thats how God of the bible did business, so that means its something superior beings do.
1,000 ppl killin 10 million ppl isn't raw, its 1000 ppl trying to kill 10 million ppl
idk what your definition of 'raw' is but if i intend to kill everyone at the wucorp GREET AND MEET for instance they'd all be dead cause i'd be a mother fucker trying to kill ppl and they wouldn't. This doesn't make me RAW, this makes me someone killing ppl.
the fact that saying a group of ppl murdered 10 million ppl is 'props' in 2010 western culture is all more reason that i can easily see white ppl doing this very deliberately.
small pox was used as a deliberate weapon. The spanish french and english traded blankets from small pox hospitals with deliberate intent to spread small pox to the native population.
in the midwest they not only attack villages, out of nowhere mind you, with military force, but there was a well publicized campaign to kill off the buffalo so that the natives will have nothing to eat and die off. but they said it was cause 'buffalo were getting in the way of trains' and ignorants wit 1840 educations believed it.
there's no argument
No there is a HUGE arguement, whether or not you'd like to admit it.
I won't deny that they had intentions of infecting indians.
But what I'm saying is that a couple of blankets didn't lead to the epidemic. That shit was obviously going to spread whether or not blankets were handed out in the first place.
It was part of the clash for good and bad.
I'm not going to explain the sarcasm of my previous post, you are smart enough to have recognized it yourself. Don't play coy.
hitler had the right ideaQuote:
Originally Posted by theheavens
rep'dQuote:
Originally Posted by TSA
Editorials about Native Americans
During the period surrounding the 1890 Ghost Dance movement and Wounded Knee Massacre, Baum wrote two editorials about Native Americans for the Aberdeen Saturday Pioneer which have provoked great controversy in recent times because of his suggestion that the safety of White settlers depended on the "extermination" of the remaining Indians.
The first piece was published on December 20, 1890, five days after the killing of the Lakota Sioux holy man, Sitting Bull (who was being held in custody at the time). Following is the complete text of the editorial:
Sitting Bull, most renowned Sioux of modern history, is dead.Following the December 29, 1890 massacre, Baum wrote a second editorial, published on January 3, 1891:
He was not a Chief, but without Kingly lineage he arose from a lowly position to the greatest Medicine Man of his time, by virtue of his shrewdness and daring.
He was an Indian with a white man's spirit of hatred and revenge for those who had wronged him and his. In his day he saw his son and his tribe gradually driven from their possessions: forced to give up their old hunting grounds and espouse the hard working and uncongenial avocations of the whites. And these, his conquerors, were marked in their dealings with his people by selfishness, falsehood and treachery. What wonder that his wild nature, untamed by years of subjection, should still revolt? What wonder that a fiery rage still burned within his breast and that he should seek every opportunity of obtaining vengeance upon his natural enemies.
The proud spirit of the original owners of these vast prairies inherited through centuries of fierce and bloody wars for their possession, lingered last in the bosom of Sitting Bull. With his fall the nobility of the Redskin is extinguished, and what few are left are a pack of whining curs who lick the hand that smites them. The Whites, by law of conquest, by justice of civilization, are masters of the American continent, and the best safety of the frontier settlements will be secured by the total annihilation of the few remaining Indians. Why not annihilation? Their glory has fled, their spirit broken, their manhood effaced; better that they die than live the miserable wretches that they are. History would forget these latter despicable beings, and speak, in latter ages of the glory of these grand Kings of forest and plain that Cooper loved to heroise.
We cannot honestly regret their extermination, but we at least do justice to the manly characteristics possessed, according to their lights and education, by the early Redskins of America.[22][23]
The peculiar policy of the government in employing so weak and vacillating a person as General Miles to look after the uneasy Indians, has resulted in a terrible loss of blood to our soldiers, and a battle which, at best, is a disgrace to the war department. There has been plenty of time for prompt and decisive measures, the employment of which would have prevented this disaster.These two short editorials continue to haunt his legacy. In 2006, two descendants of Baum apologized to the Sioux nation for any hurt their ancestor had caused.[25]
The Pioneer has before declared that our only safety depends upon the total extirmination [sic] of the Indians. Having wronged them for centuries we had better, in order to protect our civilization, follow it up by one more wrong and wipe these untamed and untamable creatures from the face of the earth. In this lies safety for our settlers and the soldiers who are under incompetent commands. Otherwise, we may expect future years to be as full of trouble with the redskins as those have been in the past.
An eastern contemporary, with a grain of wisdom in its wit, says that "when the whites win a fight, it is a victory, and when the Indians win it, it is a massacre." [22][24]
These editorials are the only known occasions on which Baum articulated such views. For example, aside from the vocabulary, he did acknowledge many Americans of non-White ancestry in The Woggle Bug Book, though in a stereotyped manner for the sake of comedy. The short story, "The Enchanted Buffalo", claims to be a legend of a tribe of bison, and states that a key element made it into legends of Native American tribes. Father Goose, His Book contains poems such as "There Was a Little Nigger Boy" and "Lee-Hi-Lung-Whan." In The Last Egyptian, Lord Roane uses "nigger" to insult the title character, while in The Daring Twins, set in the American South, the only character to use the term is a boy from Boston complaining that his mother uses their money to help "naked niggers in Africa." Baum mentions his characters' distaste for a Hopi snake dance in Aunt Jane's Nieces and Uncle John, but also deplores the horrible situation of Indian Reservations.
Who was massacred on the Europeans side?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoarzHeadBoy
You can't debate history with prejudice.Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyTooch
Their still trying to eliminate the tribes, even to this day. Language, culture, history, religion. We weren't allowed to practice our religion until 1978- almost a hundred years after the last so called "indian wars". Where 300 men women and children were massacred at Wounded Knee.
http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14520
rightfully so
by the way, your wizard of oz theory is totally incorrect.
It's just to demonstrate the state of mind people were in back then.Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyTooch
i see, you are correct.
I suppose it was genocidal, thought it happen over a longer period of time.
I wonder why the Native perished so much from smallpox tho. I have heard it was the lack of genetic variation in the americas as opposed to the Eastern Hemisphere.
Your right, tho i'd say the height of white racism, English racism whatever u want to call it was around the turn of the century.
It was the generation that spawned the holocaust too. It was accepted doctrine.
WHen you think about it, they were so far advanced in terms of technology as opposed to how everwhere else in the world was way behind. It went to their heads, but they paid for it dearly and it took two world wars and near self annihilation to realize it.
The best we can do is learn from the mistakes they made.
I see the devastation it left on us every time I walk outside. There is massive grave with over 300 bodies in less then 5 miles from my home.
A lot of our grand parents were beaten and molested in boarding schools. They were beaten when ever they spoke their native language. Their so traumatized by it they won't teach anyone else.
And as we start to mix in with the rest of America, they want to impose a blood quantum on our children so that they can't be considered tribal members, thus give up any legal rights we have as tribal members.
A lot of our lands were illegal seized....yet the government knows we still have a very legal claim in their court system to a lot of these places. That's why they are trying to drown out our voices. They only want us (culture, language, religion) to exist is in museums next to the Neanderthal exhibit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyTooch
nope - they was not more advanced in terms of technology
they had advanced killing machines
where they got them from can be argued
the slave advanced technology - not the slave master
Again, its not a genocide. A genocide is when you try to eradicate a race. The American's never planned a genocide, never carried out a genocide, a genocide did not occur. There was no systematic culling. There was systematic removal and abuses, but its not a genocide.
Its a race war, its the worst thing America has ever done and there's a long list, but its not a genocide.
Sidenote:
Sunny your post above me is stupid as hell. You're dumb. The first nations (I like the Canadian Term for natives) were stone age people. The White Man arrived as Gunpowder and Steel man, we had clocks, and mills, and horses, and printing presses, and ships, and alcohol, and all manner of useful things.
The Natives weren't stupid by any means, but we were more advanced in technology. They were more isolated and didn't have the population pressures we did. They lived better, but they were certainly less "advanced" for better or worse.
Ultimately all of America belongs to William Sinclair since the Order of the Knights Templar claimed the continent in the 1300s. The Masons, Templars, and Sinclairs have been here longer then anyone else, and if you don't like them get the fuck off the continent.
There are many many odd things in America that link them here. There is a runined round church in NY. There is a viking runestone in I believe Minnesota. The native americans in a certain region have record of meeting with some semi divine person from across the ocean and they adopted his heraldry which is William Sinclairs almost identically. There are all sorts of odd carvings all over the place of either Norse or Medieval origin, and theres certainly something odd on Oak Island which is apparently where Sinclair had a lot of Templar loot buried.
History was written by many liars.Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyTooch
You might consider 'the natives' the only people here before the white man came, but did you know blacks were also here?
Many of 'the natives' exist in us (blacks) cuz we intermarried with them before and after the white man arrived. They never disappeared or died off as historians would like you to believe. They exist in me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoarzHeadBoy
nigga fuck you
yall ain't have shit
it's fact get over it
this is why that bullshit white supremacy goes on cause these new young white idiots is still believing that their people were gods gift to the fuckin world
yall stole shit and took credit
nigga fuck you
^^^
thats what it boils down to.
the fact of the matter is that a bunch of euros came here and stole shit.
500 years later yall wanna say yall were massacred too.
thats like me breaking into your house then suing you cause you broke a louisville slugger over my back.
fuck your losses!
the devil is alive and kicking.
muh fuckaz is STILL bitter...
get over it, u cant change the past
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMJ
ahahaahahahah!!
dude there are plenty of whites who use this same bullshit....'I"m 1/23rd native!!!''
be a native dewd, if it makes u feel better....its not going to change the fact that whitey ran shit and oversaw everything.
jesus christ get over it...
listen to the 'voices' diggy
we know the past can't be changed
pray that you are strong in the future
so that you'll be able to get over it