smh - the shit people make themselves believe
smh - the shit people make themselves believe
Jacob himself was likely a real person.
His family's signature was found on clay rings bearing egyptian royal signets outside of Avaris by archeologists. A hebrew name with an egyptian royal signet seems a little much to be coincidental but that aside, strange occurances happen so I won't pass judgement based on that.
I think much of the old testament is historical, I think some of it is written with clear bias and myth. I don't think some of the supposed myth though is easily explained and I also know that behind every legend is a basis in fact. It's a matter of sifting and sorting.
Same page. Good.Originally Posted by Rollo
I think the same of the Indo-European and Egyptian Gods. They were the legendary kings of old for those cultures the way we view their people as legends. It all became legends then myths. But there was a kernel of truth.
Like Jesus was probably just a man two thousand years ago and now everyone thinks he was God. Same with a number of historical figures.
I mean you have to think, if you lived 3000+ years ago that's not that preposterous.
The Gods names are usually just titles. Ausar just means divine King and Auset just means divine queen. Why? Because there actual names were long forgotten, but someone had to be the First King and Queen and there are stories about them. But they weren't Gods. Just famous people whose importance transcended their individuality.
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Yeah, because people back then were idiots right? Like Anpu (Anubis) is probably just a legend of some great historical character and it became feasable that he had a dog's head.
You're right they weren't Gods, they were/are NETERU.
Funnily enough the point of these myths/legends is the transcendance of individuality, just not the way you're proposing.
HETEPU
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They weren't idiots, they were just relying on word of mouth instead of written traditions. Word of mouth is great, but give it long enough and it distorts quite a bit. Guy 1 may know it perfectly but his apprentice won't know it quite as well and have to put his personal touch on it. Given 500, 1000, 2000+ years its not the same story anymore.Yeah, because people back then were idiots right? Like Anpu (Anubis) is probably just a legend of some great historical character and it became feasable that he had a dog's head.
You're right they weren't Gods, they were/are NETERU.
Funnily enough the point of these myths/legends is the transcendance of individuality, just not the way you're proposing.
HETEPU
The point is that the Jewish, Greek, and Sumerian myths are derived from pre Egyptian myths. Plus they didn't actually think he had a dog head. The jackal head represents death. Because its a carrion animal. Its black like mummified flesh. He was the king of death. I'm sure in pre dynastic Egypt there was a possibility of a King of Death who became the embodiment of it.
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There may very well be deities and beings who were all powerful, it's not as though they have any reason to hang around a bunch of people who consider themselves half monkeys.
Likewise it may very well be that a group of beings were just superior enough to humans to convince them that they were all powerful.
E.T.s, interdimensionals, it's impossible to sit there and say what must be the truth in regard to old gods and deities.
In regard to egyptian mythology, pharoahs did actually become gods in the eyes of their followers after death. It may very well that in an act of misguided ancestor worship mortal men became as gods or seen as the will of gods.
A modern example, during WWII, pacific islanders who had never seen airplanes before, were given food and help from Allied troups and after the campaign against Japan was over they began to build shrines in the shape of B-17's in hopes they would attract those people back. I don't think they were stupid, simply uninformed.
There are also examples such as the mana machine of the Hebrew Zohar which was said during the exodus to provide the Israelites food from sky itself which was rebuilt by several engineers and shown to actually gather chlorellic algea and turn it into high protein food. The probability bronze aged, stone slinging nomads had such technology is nil. Obviously the described it well enough for us to know they actually used such a device, so the question becomes where did it originate?
That's why it isn't wise to just rule things in or out based on traditions and events past that people only talk about. There's no way to confirm or deny them.
Likewise calling things too ridiculous to exist just reaks of arrogance.
"A thing may be too sad to be believed or too wicked to be believed or too good to be believed; but it cannot be too absurd to be believed in this planet of frogs and elephants, of crocodiles and cuttle-fish."-G.K. Chesterton
Last edited by Rollo; 09-29-2010 at 04:31 PM.
^
Kamitic Kings were "gods" in the eyes of their followers whilst they were still alive, and for good reason.
Your example of the pacific islanders though doesn't fit with ancient egyptians. The Pacific Islanders were most definitely misinformed, the ancient egyptians new who and what the king was and represented. They were far from misinformed.
Nice post though.
HETEPU
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Who are you trying to convince here. I thought my first post made it obvious that I don't believe that they thought Anpu actually had a jackal head.
Where do we draw the line here between symbols/metaphors and chinese whispers gone wrong?
What else can you tell me about Anpu?
Why was he called the Guide of the Dead?
Who is the "dead" that is being refered to?
Where are they being guided to?
What other importances lie behind Anpu being given the Jackel's head?
HETEPU
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those animal heads are there in the paintings because in the making of man, the supreme beings used various parts of different animals and fused them together to "Make" man, but in their image after their likeness -
and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.
there was allot of grafting going on
Yeah, because people back then were idiots right? Like Anpu (Anubis) is probably just a legend of some great historical character and it became feasable that he had a dog's head.
You're right they weren't Gods, they were/are NETERU.
Funnily enough the point of these myths/legends is the transcendance of individuality, just not the way you're proposing.
HETEPU
The idea that either of you think you can accurately interpret EXACTLY what ancient Egyptians thought is ridiculous.
We can speculate all we want, but we have no idea and never will. To treat your opinion as better than someone else's is pompous and completely baseless.
--youreallfags.
Thanks for keeping us in check Dan. Your doing a bang up job!
I was under the impression that both myself and Boarz (you know, the 2 people actually involved in the discussion?) are well aware that we are both presenting our opinions based on what ever evidence we think we have. I never got the feeling once that he thinks his opinion is better than mine (he may though) and if I gave that impression then I apologize to Boarz, but certainly not to you. You seem to only come into the Ledge these days Dan to make such pointless posts as the one above. If you think there is little point in discussing thing such as "how the Ancient Egyptians practiced religion" and "was Yakub real" etc. then leave the threads alone.
HETEPU
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awwww, i didn't mean to hurt your felings, sweetie.Thanks for keeping us in check Dan. Your doing a bang up job!
I was under the impression that both myself and Boarz (you know, the 2 people actually involved in the discussion?) are well aware that we are both presenting our opinions based on what ever evidence we think we have. I never got the feeling once that he thinks his opinion is better than mine (he may though) and if I gave that impression then I apologize to Boarz, but certainly not to you. You seem to only come into the Ledge these days Dan to make such pointless posts as the one above. If you think there is little point in discussing thing such as "how the Ancient Egyptians practiced religion" and "was Yakub real" etc. then leave the threads alone.
HETEPU
I'm only saying that it is extremely important to note that you are speaking completely in speculation and not fact. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with your thoughts, but the presentation of said thoughts is very important.
Neither one of you "know" anything, and yet you both speak as you do.
No need to get all female on me.
--youreallfags.
I thought the point of debate was to be a pompous uniformed ass? Every debate ever seen is like that. If not I clearly lose as I was banking on that shit.
Shem Hotep (I mean honestly, we don't even know if its pronounced Shem Hotep do we? That's an approximation right?)
P.S.
When I (After I make a cool million day trading in the stock market) and sit down to write my epic 12 Millennia Spanning Critically Acclaimed Fantasy Series "Theomachy" about epic God on God action (no homo) you can admit defeat in the face of me outshining Homer, Virgil, and Tolkien. But no need to apologize about differing with me in your take on mythology. I like to look at it as a map leading towards pre historic pseudo fact. You I assume prefer a more metaphysical or metaphorical view.
Last edited by TheBoarzHeadBoy; 10-01-2010 at 03:36 PM.
HANKERING FOR SOME BEEF CURTAINS
See, once again you assume a certain "feeling" involved in what was written. Your point is that we can only speculate regarding ancient scripture and information yet when reading posts you attach a certain feeling to it that you assume the poster is feeling based on how you choose to read the post.
lol...ok fair enough.I thought the point of debate was to be a pompous uniformed ass? Every debate ever seen is like that. If not I clearly lose as I was banking on that shit.
I wasn't apologizing for having a different take on mythology, I was apologizing if it seemed that I thought my opinion better than yours because that's not my intention (although it seems now that it is yours, but thats cool).When I (After I make a cool million day trading in the stock market) and sit down to write my epic 12 Millennia Spanning Critically Acclaimed Fantasy Series "Theomachy" about epic God on God action (no homo) you can admit defeat in the face of me outshining Homer, Virgil, and Tolkien. But no need to apologize about differing with me in your take on mythology. I like to look at it as a map leading towards pre historic pseudo fact. You I assume prefer a more metaphysical or metaphorical view.
According to Dan my posts have a certain feel to them (and he talks about getting all female?!)
HETEPU
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epic God on God action
I assume there will be much bestiality in this "action" no?
(*-*)
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