Jesus = Lucifer

[THE W]

@face of the golden falcon


so i see two things happening here.

you are limiting the almighty creator from having total authority over his own creation based what we believe we understand. you are also hell bent on establishing your own equality to God even though the scriptures do not give you such an office.

the fallen angel did similar. he was thrown out of heaven. you dont like the idea of blood sacrifices so you will twist and distort the scriptures as much as you possibly can so they fit what YOU want. God the creator cannot do as he pleases with his creation if it doesnt appease you.

the man centered theology.


yes, you need not go any further with this because to say that a rose would change its physical state if it were called something else other than a rose makes no sense at all. but this just speaks to you limiting the ability and sovereignty of God the creator based on your own finite understanding as a created thing.

Again, if you study mystical traditions you will find statements, like those made by Yashu'a in John 14, all over the world. It is not enough for one to study the Tao (The Way!) one must live, become and embody the Tao. Indeed no one comes to the Father but by the Way, the Truth and the Life and Yashu'a embodied the Way.

you have chosen to conveniently ignore the fact that Jesus was not some guy who was super pios and without fault. Jesus was not a created being. Jesus was with God at the beginning of time. he willingly laid down the glory his father gave him from before creation to take on sinful flesh and bare the sins of mankind. he was murdered on the cross in God the father showing ultimate justice and was raised from the dead to sit at the right hand of God in God showing ultimate love and mercy.

you will never have the ability to atone for anyone's sins including your own and you will never be in a place where you can be worshiped as such things were never appointed to you or anyone else in God's word. to think otherwise is heresy

The renewed covenant (spoken of in Jeremiah 31, which again beautifully explains the mystic experience of communion with the Most High) was brought to the lost sheep of Israel through Yashu'a's blood. Do you have any idea what was done to those who exposed the esoteric teachings of the mystic traditions to the "common rabble" back then? You were tortured and killed. But Yashu'a followed the Will of Yah even unto death. This is truely living in communion with the Creator. And through his example, by following his example (those who believe and follow his teachings) the Lost Sheep of Israel and eventually even the Gentiles are given the right to eat of the Tree of Life (which is from the beginning of the Bible in Genesis to the very end in Revelations the true way into life. An understanding of what the Tree of Life is, is only going to come from, you guessed it, studying the mystic traditions)

all jeremiah 31 talks about is God's desire to restore his people israel back to himself. reading this it seems like you're disagreeing with anything i said. though i dont need to know about the mystic tradition to understand what the of life is about. they can just read the bible to understand it.

revelation 22:1-3

Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. 3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.

No they weren't. It was never about the physical act of sacrificing an animal.


El's Holy Tehillim (Psalms) 51:15-17
15O Yahweh, open thou thy lips, and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness. 16For thou desirest not sacrifice; thou delightest not in burnt offerings. 17The sacrifices of El are a broken spirit, a broken and contrite heart, O El, thou wilt not despise.

The Most High gave it to the Israelites in degrees like any good teacher. They still didn't understand and neither do you.

And if you want to get into the mystic tradition of the Holy Tabernacle(which came out of Kamit) and what it meant that the sacrifice only took part within the Holy of Holies we can. (King David understood it as shown by the previous scripture)

the sacrificing of animals for the atonement of sins was established by God himself. it was HE who made those laws, not man. not moses, GOD. yes, you are correct in saying that God gre tired of these sacrifies and offerings because people were giving God everything but their hearts which is what i made clear with the verse in isaiah.

Wow. You post this verse and still don't get it? That verse said in plain words that El never cared for the actual physical act of sacrifice, that it was always about doing righteousness, sacrificing your own flesh (physical body) and blood (life) for the Word of the Most High.

im way ahead of ya which is why i posted this in the first place to show why God ended such rituals through the final sacrifice of Jesus. while God did not like the fact that people were following his law while their hearts were still unpure he still demanded the atonement of sins through his law. Jesus was the final sacrifice for all sacrifices, bringing on the new covenant in his blood. now we have access to the most holy place through Jesus as he is our mediator and intercessor.

Yet I, and you yourself with those words from Isaiah, proved that Yah doesn't even want sacrifices.

already explained above.

No you don't, but it still makes no mention of a physical blood sacrifice.

didnt quote it for that purpose, i quoted it to show that those who place their faith in what Jesus did for us will have access to eternal life.

Damn straight it did. But not in some spooky babylonian blood for blood ritualistic killing. In hard work, nuts and bolts, living righteous unto death and beyond. "Be perfect even as your Father in Heaven is perfect" said Yashu'a. In this way the mystic traditions aren't really all that mystic. They've just been made to seem that way to keep the children of the Most High away from them.

i explained this earlier but i'll do it again here. there are no nuts and bolts here. because of what adam and eve did there are no nuts and bolts or amount of hard work that can be done by man to make him pure enough to be worthy of accomplishing what Jesus did. john the baptist being the greatest ever born of a women according to Jesus would not have been a worthy sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins even though he was a pious man.

the fact that Jesus was fully God is what made it possible for him to become the sacrifice for man's sin, not his piety. but he was also fully man in that he was the adam that adam should have been. adam was without sin and utterly pure before disobeying God in taking from the tree of knowledge. from then on adam and all of mankind were under the curse of sin.

Jesus did not come into existance through sinful man. he existed before the creation of man. he did however take on sinful flesh to become the final blood sacrifice for the atonement sin. which is what the new covenent in his blood described in the last supper passage.

If El is righteous and El gives to man an understanding of what righteousness is and it involves not killing ie. Thou shalt not kill. Then how is El justified in demanding the blood sacrifice of his son for atonement? (At One Ment, being of one mind ie. to follow the will of the One)

yet again i explained this earlier but i'll go over it again. God is sovereign over his creation and has the right to deliver justice in the way he sees fit. all the killings that God did throughout the old testament(flooding the world and drowning everyone being one of them) were God standing apposed to those who stood apposed to him.

you and i are created things. we have no power or authority over anything that we havent been given power or authority over by God the creator. who are we to tell God what he can and cant do with what he created?

God gave us life and ability to make life by procreation. you and i created NOTHING apart from God. God has the right to take away what he has made. we do not have that right as we have no authority over creation therefore we have no right to take away something that isnt ours.

isaiah 45: 9-12

“Woe to those who quarrel with their Maker,
those who are nothing but potsherds
among the potsherds on the ground.
Does the clay say to the potter,
‘What are you making?’
Does your work say,
‘The potter has no hands’?
10 Woe to the one who says to a father,
‘What have you begotten?’
or to a mother,
‘What have you brought to birth?’ 11 “This is what the Lord says—
the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker:
Concerning things to come,
do you question me about my children,
or give me orders about the work of my hands?
12 It is I who made the earth
and created mankind on it.
My own hands stretched out the heavens;
I marshaled their starry hosts.




romans 9:14-21


What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[f]

16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[h] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

The same oneness that Yashu'a prayed we all might be?

John 17:21 So that they all may be one, just as thou, my Father art with me, and I am with thee, that they also may be one with us; so that the world may believe that thou didst send me.


I guess if we are all able to be one with the Father then that Trinity of yours is going to get awful crowded!

not so,

this scripture is in no way giving us an office to be worshiped, to sit at the right hand of God, the ability to atone for sins IN OUR OWN NAME, or to be equal in authority and power with the father, the son, and the holy spirit.


we are not told in scripture to worship or pray to any of the disciples or paul. we pray to God the father, to Jesus(who is also God), even to the holy spirit(who is God as well). 3 persons, jesus and the holy spirit having the authority and power equal to that of the Godhead.


the prayer of Jesus in john 17 is about us coming into right and full relationship with Jesus and thus with God the father as was intended for man from the time of adam, it IS NOT about being equal to God or becoming God.


remember matthew 28:18 where jesus said that all authority on heaven and earth had been given to him? where in jesus' prayer did he give all or any authority on heaven and earth to the disciples or the to believers?

Yashu'a also said YOU are the Light of the world.
Matthews 5:14. And in John 17 whilst praying for the oneness of Yah with his children also prayed saying that he has passed on his glory to his followers. Therefor you have yet to make Yashu'a unique as worthy of deification and serving (for you will love the one and hate the other!)

again, not so


matthew 5:11-12


“Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.



those who preach the gospel of Jesus are indeed the light because they supply the light of the gospel by following jesus teachings and living by them. so yes they become light in that sense.


why does jesus say blessed are those who are persecuted....BECAUSE OF ME? are they being persecuted for being pious people? no. they're being persecuted for proclaiming the gospel of jesus.


the prophets were persecuted for proclaiming God the father as the one and true God while others worshiped false gods.

First of all that is doctored scripture when supposedly talking of the trinity. The original said "baptizing them in my name."


Regarding the other point. Worship as translated from the Hebrew/Aramaic in the scripture is not unique to worship of the One God. It is a reverence and honoring of someone, which may or may not be Yahweh. The disciples did not fall to there feet worshipping and saying "Praise to you the One God!" or anything along those lines. Yashu'a was comfortable with the reverence he was receiving, if that is indeed accurate scripture. The birth story and post death scripture is very suspect.

The Malachim/Angel in revelations however was not comfortable with it and told John to revere God alone. You cannot justify the the words or actions of one being with the words or actions of another.

oh word?



what original? produce it


what documentation can you produce to say that the post death scriptures text is inaccurate or shouldnt be there?



the angel wasnt comfortable with it? comfortable with what? john honoring and reverencing the angel?


why would an angel be up in arms about something like this to emphatically reject it and implore john to worship God only but Jesus excepted the very same thing with no problem.


i think its because jesus had been given the authority to received such worship(as God does) and the angel did not.

Forgiveness of sins being preached in his name is the idea that people thought that they were being punished for their sins. This is what people thought and still think. That karma has something to do with punishment. Yashu'a taught that as soon as you repent as long as you forgive the wrongdoings of others unto you, you are forgiven. In this light Karma is seen as a teacher not as punisher.

without jesus' sacrifice there is no atonement for the sins of man and God judgement remains upon mankind.


the scriptures dont say that forgiveness is the way. it says jesus is the way. people who forgive others will still face God's rath if they reject the one he sent which in turn means you have rejected God.

Explained. Quit with the blood thirsty babylonian ritual crap. At One Ment through murder. This is what you teach.

well this was God's will so you'll have to take it up with him.

That's a bunk interpretation of the scripture. A quick google search will show you that. There is no christian concept of trinity mentioned by Yashu'a or another true follower of Yah in biblical scripture. The christian trinity is a completley misunderstood bastardization of the orginal trinity of mystic traditions. One to satisfy their left brain, idol worship way of thinking.

jesus makes multiple references to how he has been with the father since the beginning so how exactly is it bunk? you basically think there is no concept of trinity because the word 'trinity' isnt in the bible?


trinity = the authority and power of the Godhead residing in himself, his son, and the holy spirit.

That bit of scripture doesn't even mention Yashu'a until the 17th verse. The first part is not talking of Yashu'a but the Light of the Word of El that became flesh through Yashu'a. Now see if you can connect this to the first thing I wrote about names and words.

Like I said, the trinity is completley misunderstood. The Word is called "He" because it is the masculine principle of the Yin/Yang that manifests out of the Godhead.


Godhead
/ \
Word ------- Spirit
Masuline Feminine
Yang Yin

so you're saying the word "he" in the scripture is references God's masculinity?

i dont see how that works


the light that john is talking about is jesus as explained in the last part of that passage. anyone who reads that passage honestly will see this plainly. its all describing jesus.

its why jesus is referred to as the lamp in revelations.


"he" in this passage cant mean anything else but jesus. "the light" in this passage cant mean anything else but jesus. the last part where jesus' name actually appears only confirms this.

john 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

i fail to see how this passage can be talking about anyone or anything else but Jesus.

You throw the word persons (persona ie. through sound) around without even having an understanding of the power of words. None of what your lengthy reply said justified your idol worship of a flesh being you call Jesus.

already explained

If the Light of the Word of Yah was with Yah at the beginning and indeed is Yah. And that Light is in us and is indeed is us (YOU are the light of the world, remember.) Then we were all glorified in the presence of Yah at the beginning.


Mystical traditions. The truth is not a bloodied clump of flesh on a cross to appease a blood thirsty god. It is Light of the Word of Yah that one must sacrifice ones life for.

i quoted that passage to validate the trinity and the fact that jesus has been with God even before creation.


no one has been given all power and authority in heaven and on earth besides jesus and the holy spirit(spirit of truth).

[THE W]

Your scripture says "Ye are Elohim." Both Yahweh and Yashu'a said it. Why do you deny your birthright and give it up for hunger?

nowhere in scripture have i been given power and authority equal to that of the Godhead.

[LORD NOSE]

matthew 9:16

“No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment, for the patch will pull away from the garment, making the tear worse. 17 Neither do people pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst; the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved.”

what do you take this to mean?

you can't bring an old mind into the new kingdom


it's like installing window 98 on a tablet made in 2013

wtf are you doing ?



can the people who never left the muds see the eagles in the sky ?


there seems to be a debate going on between 2 brothers in this thread

i've learned allot from both

if i was looking for the flaws in both of them, i wouldn't be able to learn from none of them.
i'd be busy pointing out the flaws in delivery

i've gain great epiphanies by reading from what was written

however, the more fire yall throw at each other, the less anyone can gain from what's being written -


what is the difference between being humble and being arrogant


what does the scripture say about humbleness ?

[LORD NOSE]

can you learn anything when you believe that everyone needs what you are teaching ?

[V4D3R]

Soul started the fire - Heru you have a lot to teach willing pupil here.

These niggas wont teach me shit because they think Im an agent when in reality I just have the gift of intuition even though I lost my light and I freak them out when they come at me like agents with different names hiding their indentities...hahahahah. aint that right Gavin and Anthony?

[V4D3R]

Especially considering I am the furthest thing from an agent. You have a dis-ease called paranoid delusional that actually spread to my conscious at one point. Now you pissed me off when I was troubled and really needed guidance. If anything...my mind was corrupted in these forums by certain individuals that I would categorize as blatant and disruptive to my quest for knowledge and light...very misleading and bi-polar wishy washy bs that has poisoned my mind...

[LORD NOSE]

Soul started the fire - Heru you have a lot to teach willing pupil here.

These niggas wont teach me shit because they think Im an agent when in reality I just have the gift of intuition even though I lost my light and I freak them out when they come at me like agents with different names hiding their indentities...hahahahah. aint that right Gavin and Anthony?

what is it that you want these niggaz to teach you ?

[THE W]

i did not participate in this thread for the purpose of conversion. im not trying to sway anyone to my beliefs. this discussion isnt even about beliefs to begin with.

my reason for coming in this thread was because soul controller posted a video of someone taking the bible way out of its proper context and having it say things it is not saying.

if you reject the bible that is your choice and im not here to change anyone's mind on that.

my reason for participating in this thread is to ensure proper exegesis of the Word of God. to make sure that God's word is understood in its proper intended context so we know accurately who God says he is and what God's will and purpose is for his creation.

[LORD NOSE]

my reason for participating in this thread is to ensure proper exegesis of the Word of God. to make sure that God's word is understood in its proper intended context so we know accurately who God says he is and what God's will and purpose is for his creation.

this is the problem right here - too many people feel they do have the understanding that gives them the right to teach others it's "proper intended context" - then they'll directly or indirectly call each other stupid/sinners for not going 100% with what they are giving.

this is what Allen Watts was saying in those vids also - we are limited to our perception and experience - and even more so, when we don't hear out and understand others perception and respect their experience -

i understand what yall are saying - but what yall write becomes incoherent when yall begin to get frustrated with each other. it's not wise to try and force understanding

[THE W]

i edited some things in my last response to falcon that i thought werent appropriate.

there is nothing wrong with debating. in fact it is very fruitful if it is kept civil. it helps people to understand each other and themselves by allowing their ideas to be measured and weighed.

[LORD NOSE]

but it doesn't seem to be being weighed and measured

i'm weighing and measuring what's being said as an outsider


what you are giving is the popular traditional way of seeing what's written W (IMO)


and i understand it -

to me, it's a surface and safe way to approach it -

[THE W]

im simply taking the bible for what it says.

many people have turned the bible into whatever suits them.

thats why you have catholics, mormons, and jehovahs witnesses claiming they're christians when they're all heretical teachings. there is nothing in the scripture that says we should ever pray to the virgin mary. there's nothing i scripture that says that God had an actual sexual experience with the person who gave birth to jesus.

even homosexuals are getting on the act.

if you want to be any of those things go ahead, but don't try to associate these things with christianity.

[PALEHORSE]

@face of the golden falcon


so i see two things happening here.

you are limiting the almighty creator from having total authority over his own creation based what we believe we understand. you are also hell bent on establishing your own equality to God even though the scriptures do not give you such an office.

this is all I read and found a few flaws according too my way of thought

[PALEHORSE]

.

[THE W]

you, I , we are the almighty creator having total authority over our own creations, based on what we believe and understand.

it seems to me, sir, you are limiting the almighty creator according to ...and forfeiting your power to create, to outside circumstances that may or may not exist

keep in mind that we're discussing what the bible says and it definitely does not say that you or I are the creator. we didnt create the heavens and the earth. we didnt create man from the dirt and create women from the rib of a man which means we are created things that have no power or authority over anything apart from God the creator. the bible doesnt tell us that we had any part in such things.

now if you reject the bible than thats your choice and convincing you otherwise is not the point of the discussions that have gone on in this thread.