Once Upon a Time in Shaolin/museum tour/1 copy of album

[TheWuSepticTank]

I've been reading this thread and all the back and forth for a few weeks now and finally wanna chime in a bit. First off, the parts that I don't like are, the comments trying to discredit Cilvaringz as a dope producer. I've listened to all of The Mental Chamberz albums, I bought the first one eBay years back, and heard the others through various downloads and the Wuki package etc. also, that 24 minute session that he posted on YouTube years ago, had so many sick beats especially the one with Priest spittin on, I actually ripped it and made into an mp3, and still rock to it (with the hopes that I'd get to hear all of those beats on future projects, which apparently this secret album seems to be). I respect his concepts of trying bring back that grimy 90s Wu sound, he's succeeded at that from what I can tell. He has creatively mastered the sound, he has the ear that RZA lost in the 90s early 2000s...to the point where it doesn't sound like RZA carbon copied, but it feels organic and genuine, reminiscent of how 4th Disciple, True Master, and Allah Math have all used it and built upon the sound in their own unique ways, yet still maintaining it. So, when ppl say, "oh this isn't a Wu project, or RZA didn't produced this, so it's not a real project, who is Cilvaringz anyway?" That's retarded shit, because 4th, True Master, and Mathematics aren't known either on a mainstream level, and produced plenty of gems and classics, so it's not about that. And if you're even asking those questions, you shouldn't be upset anyway from not hearing or owning this album, you apparently don't respect the man's talent for beat making because he hasn't produced a Liquid Swords, Cuban Linx, Ironman, or 36 Chambers caliber album yet. I've heard snippets of this album and it sounds every bit as dope as it should, which is what annoys me as a fan, is because THIS IS the album I want to hear from the Clan, since 1997. There's no doubt that this is gonna be their best collective project since Forever. Having said all that, it just makes me wonder, well if we are not gonna get to own this album, then why should any real Wu heads give a fuck about this album? I mean seriously, I remember when I first heard Wu-Tang Forever, bought it the first day it dropped and was actually disappointed by it for some reason. It actually took me a few listens through it, throughout that week, and by the end of that week, I fuckin loved it...and still to this day. Repetition, life is based on it, it's how we enjoy and do shit in our everyday lives, no matter what it is, music, movies, work, sex, food, anything, it's how we live and get through life. Why would I wanna go see a great film, that I could only see once and never own to watch again privately in my own home? Why would I wanna eat a great meal that somebody tells me I could never eat again? Why would I wanna fuck a bad chick, and by some power, be prohibited from ever fucking again in life? So why would I wanna listen to a great Wu-Tang album, 17 years in the making (essentially), and never get a chance to listen to it again??? Huh??? That doesn't seem okay, or any sense of rational thinking to me, and I'm tired of hearing all the "it's about preserving the artistic value of music" rhetoric, lets just call it for what it is....Cilvaringz was originally gonna make this album for the fans, it took six years, and after that time he realized he made something really dope, but he thought to himself, why the fuck should I squander this piece of work that took so long to put together on an undeserving hip hop public. Ringz himself admitted that he knew the album would flop, and of course it would, that's just way of things today, no matter how dope it maybe. So he went to RZA with this marketing idea, that way it causes this big fuss and attention, with RZA/Wu-Tang's name behind, the art gimmick, the sculpted box, and the whole concept of being recorded the traditional 90s style of Wu's classic era, was all enough to get attention from some top investors. Ringz just basically to get paid for all of his hard work, he made a fan album, basically for himself, because that's WHAT HE IS, first and foremost....this was a dream album for him, a true Wu geek project, and he made it himself....for himself. It was originally supposed to be for "us", MAYBE, but like he said,he changed his mind, he's the entitled one....because he feels entitled to be paid. He most likely has other copies of this in various forms, mp3 of course, as well as physical copies somewhere, so he's still gonna get to enjoy it, but now also....get his money for it in the process. He most likely feels that fans dont support him enough (or at all for that matter) and therefore don't deserve the album to just be wasted and pirated forever. I for the record would've bought the album, but whatever. I wouldn't be annoyed, if he would just admit that, I want him to make a video saying, "yo, listen up, fuck you guys, this album isn't for you, it's for me, I feel like I put work in and deserved to get paid, so fuck y'all ". I would have so much more respect for Ringz if he did that, because any other bs explanation to possibly making us accept and go along with this idea is just asinine.

[Cilvaringz]

Well... if twisting my thought process into something that works for you and helps you understand it more.. then hey... run with it.

It's incredible though, no matter how truthful you can be and expose as much of yourself, there will always be a bunch of folks that will say "no, you actually felt a different way!"

Hands down to that and fascinating!

[Jeru]

I think the problem here is the fact that instead of the concept being hyped in that previous thread, it was the album and that was a mistake imo. Sure, you said it was going to come out in a non conventional form but it was only like a couple of posts in a thousand plus post thread dominated by snippets, tracklistings, input questions, etc... and that was the flaw imo.
I still am not a fan of this idea but I'm not going to go all childish anymore and call Ringz a jackass and such, we all have to grow up at some point.
If he gets what he wants with this release, more power to him.

[Chrism70]

Just wanna pop in and say I have maximum respect for the Brother Cilvaringz after reading his replies today. May Allah bless you and your family always Ahki

And a thought comes into my head.....what if it were possible to release an album bit by bit. Much like a jigsaw concept where upon you dont see the finished article until it is completed. So, thinking out loud here guys so bare with me(!), what if the digital source code for a track was merely a script of code. Run that script through a paryicular piece of software and it plays the track for you. The artist asks the fans to subscribe in order to download parts of the script code, lets say once a month? So every month you pay $10 for that piece of code. After 2 years once you have the code, the exlusive software Application is sent to you this allowing you to play the script and fibally hear the album. Without the software you cant play the scripts (tracks) and vice versa. Maybe thats too crazy an idea but it could be an interpretation of the "get your virus scans ready" comment? Or maybe not lol

[TheWuSepticTank]

Well... if twisting my thought process into something that works for you and helps you understand it more.. then hey... run with it.

It's incredible though, no matter how truthful you can be and expose as much of yourself, there will always be a bunch of folks that will say "no, you actually felt a different way!"

Hands down to that and fascinating!

Well it seems like the only logical explanation to me for you not wanting heads to own the album. Because it's almost a blatant two fisted "fuck you", to the fans. Because the money for the effort part I can understand, but prohibiting fans from adding it to their collection after you've made your profit seems like something malicious. Because ppl clearly aren't liking that idea.

[Cubanlinx95]

I'd rather hear more about the music than counter-attack everything Cilvaringz says. for example, how many of the 24-minute beat session did he end up using? is the Killah Priest track on there? who's the album's MVP? I'd rather people ask those questions than complain about the marketing.

[RUSHING PLATYPUS]

I want clarify my feelings about the project at this point one last time. Then as I said, I'm out. The issue is not you (Cilva) trying to do something different and ensure money is made from the album. In fact, I would be all for it if you hadn't teased us about how nice it would be and how much we would love it, only to turn around and say you hope we never get our hands on it at all. Don't get me wrong, you have the right to change your mind. The fans also have the right to be pissed off that you did. We are. Interesting idea. Unfortunately, you portrayed the project as something completely different for so long, you have alienated many of your fans. I can't imagine working that hard for that long and hoping only one person can ever own the music. How badly are you in need of money? Must be awfully bad to not care if people hear your music. Still a fan of your beats Cilva. Very disappointed in the way you mislead your fans for so long. I'm out.

[Toothflesh]

I think Cilvaringz understands the frustration of everybody in here. For years people want the "old" Wu back and it didnt happen, untill this album shows up in this forum. Everybody was very hyped (even the haters but they will never admit that) until it was crystal clear it would not be released they way we are used to. I think this one copy only album is a big statement and the change in plans sucks but I hope this plan succeeds eventhough I really would love to bump this 2 cd album in my own house. I also hope the gallery listening experience is more then just a headphone, a chair and the music.

[HEZAKYA]

At the End of the Day...i was spitting alot of Venom..I was more hurt by being decieved by a Group that kicked so much Knowledge to me in my youth....then to find out.. i've been Hoodwinked..Bamboozled...led a Stray!! My beef is more with the Clan fighting amongst themselves...and RZA for supporting this Crazy Art project. Taking the Music from the Poor people. ODB is Spinning in his Grave! Like i Said..i respect Cilvaringz as an Artist/Producer...his Vision has some Merit...but it's the wrong time, wrong place for it. Cilvaringz can come up with all the Crazy Concepts he wants..at the end of the day, RZA owns the Name, and has the final say so. He could've said.."Naw Kid...I promised the Fans one last Album." "We might as well give them this album..since i can't get the Crew together no more." He should of PAID Cilvaringz a Handsome Amount of Money for his work..instead of Wasting a Million Dollars on "A Better Tommorow"....RZA's Ego wants a Wu-Tang Project all Produced by him! That's the same shit Rae is saying! If this Album was in the Public..and it turned out to be the "Sgt. Pepper" Of Hip-Hop....and the whole thing was produced by someone else...then RZA would feel like shit..and he would lose Credibility.

Im pissed....and i dont wanna hear a Better Tommorow...if it comes out..Im torrenting it. For the simple fact..if these Brothers cant give it they all and come together..well i can't part with the little bit of money i work for...for a Half Assed Album. I've been Burnt Waayyy to many times by these dudes since 1998 to trust it. "Keep Watch" is a Prime example of not knowing what the public wants out of a Wu Record. You damn well know Cilvaringz has WAV. or MP3's of this Album. He'll be insane not to! Especially if he himself said he enjoys the shit out of it. He's a Fan first, and he aint gonna just part with it. So, knowing what i know, it's gonna eventually Leak....We just gotta wait and see how this plays out. After all sales are final..and the Rich Asshole who Buys it, is sitting in his Room listening to it. Some Mysterious Morracan Engineer who stole the files when it was sent to be Mastered will have uploaded it. You never know!

I had to take a step back and think(SMOKE)...Cilvaringz might of been dishonest to his fans to a degree....but the guy obviously cares...because he would'nt be on here responding to our Hate or Trolling, he's answering our questions and interacting with us. He does'nt have to do that. They have the whole Mainstream World right now Sweating them for this concept..but he's still taking time to come on here and be Verbally Assaulted by us. LOL.....i think he feels bad in a way...but this concept has totally went over their heads and out of control..he has no choice but to see it all the way through.
I still have no respect for Wu-Tang Clan anymore...Hopefully the W can be Restored....Just dont talk that "God-Body" shit anymore..because we know better!

[sickdog]

so much drama...

[liquidswordchamber36]

So I guess there wont be a single dropping then..

[Digitall]

@cilvaringz.. I'm starting to understand your thought process.. But aren't you afraid that this album will lose the momentum that you are initially trying to gain, after the album is sold and the hype is gone? If the buyer decides to do nothing and let it collect dust, I think people will forget about it. Wouldn't it bother you that more people could've heard the album? Especially an album that you're so proud of. Future generations will never get to discover it, unlike the other classic wu albums. And therefore, later on, nobody will pay attention to it... Attention that it might deserve. That's why I think that in the long run your plan could backfire. But respect for trying something new.

[Oneman]

I was fortunate enough to meet Ringz several times back in the Lin Brotherz era and what always struck me in him was his ambition and self-confidence. I think this project is the incredible result of those traits combined with almost two decades of hard work. I'm disappointed I won't be able to own this album, but from a business point of view I am beyond curious to see how it will pan out and what industry revolution it may provoke.

BTW: here's a tip, it worked for me. Once you're able to accept the idea that you don't OWN this, it's actually much easier to accept the spin that's been given to the release of the album.

[corky831]

A way I feel you could make money off of this and would be far better than listening in a museum is by treating your album as a movie. It is shown in theatres around the US and you can go and listen to the album in a movie theatre for movie theatre prices. You can have old footage of wutang playing or what not on the screen.....I think this idea trumps the museum one. You see how much people make in the box office? Ridiculous bread. After a period of time it gets released for sale just like movies .....or you release it as a blu ray movie format. There is piracy in the movie industry but not even close as the music industry. This way fans could purchase and get excited for the "music/movie" showing

[TheWuSepticTank]

RZA in interviews will talk about how he owes it to the fans for a reunion album, but in the same breath say that this album is a "peice of art".....but ABT is for the fans....huh? So that means ABT isn't a peice of art, it's a generic giveaway to the fans? Same as 8 Diagrams which was damn near universally panned, Rae didnt like the album, same as he doesn't ABT. Why are the two albums separated into two categories? Why is one "art" and the other "for the fans"? Why isn't the "art" album "for the fans"? Sounds to me like the "Shaolin" album is THE real album, and ABT is 8 Diagrams part 2. And here Ringz basically wants to call fans cry babies who have a sense of entitlement, because we were teased about potentially great Wu album in the future. On one hand RZA says we are "owed" something,and on the other Ringz says we shouldn't feel entitled to anything... that sounds contradictory.