Once Upon a Time in Shaolin/museum tour/1 copy of album

[cj wisty]

This is not a direct answer to your question, but it reminds me of what a local well known artist who received a part time job as a music reviewer at an important national magazine once said. (Names don't matter since I'm not talking about the US.)

When being asked about his new job as a reviewer he said it had much lessened his respect for and enjoyment of music. He went on to describe how his car had been filling up with CDs and records to review, so much so that he came to expect this constant music instream as nothing special, even as something tedious. Mind you, he was an artist himself. In the end he decided to give up the reviewing gig, even though his reviews were well received and high profile.

So I guess what I'm trying to say here is that wide availability, while having many advantages, also risks to negatively influence the way music is appreciated.

lol u cant make that direct comparison though. hes listening to lots of albums/songs that he probably doesn't like so he doesn't enjoy music as much.

just becomes theres lots of copies of 1 song doesn't mean people think less of it and u can listen to it whenever u want and not get sick of it. plus ur not obliged to listen to it a lot of times like the music reviewer. u don't have to listen to groups u don't like.

listening/doing something lots of times u don't really like could quite likely make u not as interested in the genre/group that thing belongs to.

but digitalisation doesn't do that.

also I notice u mention lots of times music and movies aren't respected as art today. I don't know why u think that. majority of people think of music as art and movies aren't as respected cuz its a young form of art, but theyre a lot more respected since 100 years ago. in fact I think they've become more respected is cuz they've become more widely available.

[Rev Jones]

lol u cant make that direct comparison though. hes listening to lots of albums/songs that he probably doesn't like so he doesn't enjoy music as much.

just becomes theres lots of copies of 1 song doesn't mean people think less of it and u can listen to it whenever u want and not get sick of it. plus ur not obliged to listen to it a lot of times like the music reviewer. u don't have to listen to groups u don't like.

listening/doing something lots of times u don't really like could quite likely make u not as interested in the genre/group that thing belongs to.

but digitalisation doesn't do that.

also I notice u mention lots of times music and movies aren't respected as art today. I don't know why u think that. majority of people think of music as art and movies aren't as respected cuz its a young form of art, but theyre a lot more respected since 100 years ago. in fact I think they've become more respected is cuz they've become more widely available.

Some very good points here. Thanks for the food for thought (no wucorp pun intended)! Don't know about music being more respected than 100 years ago (think of the almost worshiplike treatment of classical music by some).

[ShaDynasty]

This is not a direct answer to your question, but it reminds me of what a local well known artist who received a part time job as a music reviewer at an important national magazine once said. (Names don't matter since I'm not talking about the US.)

When being asked about his new job as a reviewer he said it had much lessened his respect for and enjoyment of music. He went on to describe how his car had been filling up with CDs and records to review, so much so that he came to expect this constant music instream as nothing special, even as something tedious. Mind you, he was an artist himself. In the end he decided to give up the reviewing gig, even though his reviews were well received and high profile.

So I guess what I'm trying to say here is that wide availability, while having many advantages, also risks to negatively influence the way music is appreciated.

So you would be happy to be listen to all your music in a specific place?

Cos i wouldn't, most people wouldn't.

And Warhol made prints of prints, not multiple painting copies.

[Rev Jones]

Warhol made prints of prints, not multiple painting copies.

Correct, I wasn't clear enough on this. Thanks for expanding on that.

And no, I wouldn't mind listening to this album in one specific place.

[HEZAKYA]

One more thing i forgot to mention...This "Once Upon A Time In Shaolin"...is nothing But A RZA Hustle. I watched all his interviews from his "Press Tour" and drew my own conclusion...He realizes "A better tommorow" might not see the light of day..that's a Million dollars he already spent on Production for the Album..he was betting on Raekwon submitting..Raekwon nor his management is Budging. RZA cant lose a Million Dollars..so he comes up with Plan B....He remembers Cilvaringz was recording an Album...He hears it...he's Blown Away! Cilvaringz pulled it off...It sounds like a Real Wu-Tang Album....The album he SHOULD be making....He knew this kid had talent! He may can save his neck. He cant just put the Album out because nobody heard of Cilvaringz...it'll just lay waste in Torrentville..and no Money. See, Investors will only Invest in a REAL Wu-Tang Project..Not a Cilavringz Project or a Wu-Tang Album without Rae or other missing members....So this Idea was Born...they had no idea it would blow up like this or even work....Wow...we could actually pull this off....The Publicity is Crazy....So now they really have to go with this plan now...or they wont look legit. So they cant even pull out if they wanted to. Also, with the re-newed interest in Wu-Tang as Brilliant Musical trendsetters...A better tommorow gets Talked about again. RZA pushing to finish it even more since this Museum News came out. He can have one album in the public and one Defined as "Art".....RZA makes a shitload of money and saves his Reputation...As for Cilvaringz..if he's a true artist..he would want his best music heard no matter what..but the pay off of Money and His Ego is worth more to him at this stage in his life. Cilvaringz did good for the Abbot..he's now calling him his Buddy. He pitched in idea to his Corporate Masters...and now they're inviting him to eat dinner and discuss business..he's on Bloomberg T.V with a Sweater vest on and London Accent saying he Gave the fans 20 years of Music...this project is not for them.

This is beyond the Shaolin album now...the album is just a Metaphor for Everything that is wrong with so-called Musician's and Corporate greed today. How a Young Upstart Rag-Tag Band of Rebels that were Wu-Tang..turn their back on their Fans and the streets that made them and become The Dark Lord of The Sith! "THE EMPIRE"....Just like Charlie Sheen sold his father's company out to Michael Douglas/Gordan Gekko in Wall-Street..Cilvaringz sold the only fans and credibility he had so he can eat at RZA's(Michael Douglas/Gordan Gekko) Table. He was hyping you guys up..was excited for you all..that he finally did it...then a couple a months ago...he all of a sudden changes his mind....no, RZA realized A Better tommorow was'nt working out like he planned....Let's Takeover Cilvaringz Album...RZA's gonna Gordan Gekko Cilvaringz by the end of this. This is not no Artistic statement....This another Diggs Family Hustle. Im sure Power is gonna have Wu-Wear Booths at the Museum Entrances come ShowTime. Cappadonna...U-God...and Masta Killah will have Q&A sessions with the Hipsters and Brooklyn Vegans after the Museum Show. While the rest of the Clan will come out Asking where is their Money...and they had no Idea this Album Existed.

[cj wisty]

Some very good points here. Thanks for the food for thought (no wucorp pun intended)! Don't know about music being more respected than 100 years ago (think of the almost worshiplike treatment of classical music by some).

I meant music as a whole today is held in high regard, not just modern music. yeah classical music is held in higher regard but I think that's reasons other than how easy it is to download music today.

[Cubanlinx95]

The one thing I think Cilvaringz might be confused about is when he says that ALL music today is being devalued, when in reality most people still respect rock & roll. This record should be a statement for the legitimacy of hip hop music, which is constantly attacked and degraded. this is an album made to make hip hop look good

[Cilvaringz]

Well, first of all, the comparisons with Jarre's project have drawn many times, but with the exception of the one single copy, he encouraged the piracy of the record, and we are doing the exact opposite. Furthermore, Jarre himself played the record on Radio Luxembourg AFTER the sale, which raises the question whether all masters and plates were actually destroyed or whether he kept a copy for himself to play on the radio. Our concept, approach, handling and objective are different.

Secondly, this whole copy and pasting thing has to stop. And the whole Shabazz thing, seriously. When this was slated to be a commercial release, everybody and their mother on this board was overly excited and could've cared less about how it would be presented and under which name. Now the possibility of owning this thing is practically impossible and now all of the sudden it's a copy and paste album, Cilvaringz is a nobody, posh accent, bla bla, etc etc.. Please... don't be little kids and dont feel so sorry for yourselves. Look at the more intelligent and mind engaging posts, seriously far more interesting. Even if you don't agree with the approach, be intelligent about it, cause all that little childish bullshit, it only brings the interesting debates down.

As for more in depth about what we're doing, I think this is by far the best article written on our approach:


THE VALUE CRISIS IN RECORDED MUSIC - A NEW EXCLUSIVITY

Few would dispute that the recorded music industry is in crisis. Recent years have seen a flurry of attempts to think outside the traditional paradigm as artists and labels seek new distribution models, monetisation options and ways to connect with their core supporters.

What began as an economic problem and sustainability issue has since turned to raise deeper questions about other forms of ‘value’ within music. Ease of access, content saturation and the eradication of physicality from musical formats have arguably engendered a diminished experiential value – where profound engagement has ebbed away into a more fleeting, consumerist psychology.

In the light of two recent projects – the single copy Wu Tang album Once Upon a Time in Shaolin and the Kickstarter based distribution of Aphex Twin’s hitherto unreleased ‘Caustic Window’ album, we looked at a new embrace of exclusivity and spoke to Cilvaringz from the Wu Tang Clan.

"...It simply wasn’t good enough
anymore to make great music
and trust distribution channels
to ensure it got heard...."

Music's Value Loss
Purchasing and experiencing music used to require investment – both financial and emotional. Those who grew up in the era of physical formats remember the ‘stories’ to buying records. Skipping school to queue up for an album before rushing home to listen to a proud new treasure. Hanging out in a record shop as the newest white label dropped and the anticipation peaked. Defining one’s formative years through a very specific soundtrack. ‘Curating’ one’s own music collection and lovingly dusting off record sleeves with a passion that hard drives never quite matched.

As the democratisation of production and distribution spiralled from a utopian ideal into a dystopian sea of digital overload, the sustainability of independent music plummeted. With such an intimidating quantity of music out there, the focus started to become as much about presentation as musical substance. It simply wasn’t good enough anymore to make great music and trust distribution channels to ensure it got heard. Independent record labels with limited promotional budgets were subsumed in the new economic realities and corporate entities seemed to become even more powerful. For many musicians, it began to feel that they either needed giant promotional funding or ever more inventive distribution strategies.

"...As free downloads grew more prevalent,
the social networks took an increasingly
jaded view of them..."

One such strategy was to accept that recorded music was a loss leader. The received wisdom today amongst huge swathes of the industry is that recorded music is a means to an end rather than an end in itself. You release tracks and albums not because they are a sustainable form of exchange or a standalone piece of art, but as a calling card for gigs. Setting aside what this has done to live music - as producers are forced to become performers despite their talents lying elsewhere - this perception has accelerated the devaluation of recorded music.

Some artists, especially within dance music, began to give music away for free, concluding that it was likely to get pirated anyway in today’s climate. Many musicians felt that the promotional weight in giving music away for free was more productive than attempting to monetise in a conventional manner. This tactic did see some brief success, but as free downloads grew more prevalent, the social networks took an increasingly jaded view of them and grew weary of ‘sharing’ free music. So in many ways it was back to square one, but with yet another subliminal nail in the coffin of recorded music’s perceived value.

Enter The Wu Tang
The subtext to the ‘free model’ of recorded music was an ever swelling sense of entitlement on the part of the listener. And that is as much a problem for the listener as for the artist. When you feel entitled to something – when you expect something – when you are blasé about something – does it actively limit the depth of your appreciation? The issue isn’t just that musicians feel taken for granted or unable to make a basic living from releases, but that listeners have become idle consumers. ‘No effort was made in the acquisition of this music’ could be a virtual sticker on most digital releases. And it is arguable that emotional outlay as well as its symbolic representation (the parting of hard earned cash) is an integral part of any experience – especially a lasting one.

Enter the Wu Tang Clan with perhaps the most radical solution yet proposed. Their answer to this landscape was to create one sole physical copy of their new album; defying every conception of music as something to be shared, they are making a counter intuitive but fundamental point.

At first glance, Once Upon a Time in Shaolin looks like the ultimate expression of elitism and the final divorce of hip-hop from its community roots. The triumph of bling over art for art’s sake. Putting one copy of an album in an extravagant series of silver boxes and selling it off to a millionaire smacks of everything that is wrong with the music business and indeed with corporate hip hop culture.

“...This isn’t about elitism. This is an
artistic statement about
value within music...”

Speaking to Cilvaringz – the originator of the concept and the producer of the Wu’s new album – it becomes clear that a very different dynamic is in play; one that targets current realities.

“This isn’t about elitism. This is an artistic statement about value within music,” he told us. “Major artists have diversified their revenue streams – they have options. They can strike licensing deals, make TV shows, release fashion ranges, align themselves with brands, and go on perpetual tour. It’s the little guy who really needs recorded music to be worth something. If you sell 5000 copies of your CD – you can just about scrape a living. That gives you independence as a musician. But if we live in a world where recorded music – the culmination of years of creative work is worthless then what options do you have as a musician? This project is about restoring recorded music to the status of art and provoking a deeper debate about the economics and the experience of music.“

And this really is the crux of the matter. We have arrived at a point where recorded music is no longer seen as precious. We don’t prize our musical possessions in the way we used to and that has led to a deeper malaise where we view creative output as something disposable. This isn’t to sanctify the musician and scold the ‘consumer’. Musicians themselves are guilty in many cases of a slapdash approach to releases because they themselves no longer perceive their output as a lasting testament.

Back to the Exclusive
We are beginning to see a return to limited edition physicality across the spectrum. Beautifully presented, numbered vinyl runs are starting to pop up across dance music. It is partly about selling something exclusive to encourage people to dig deep and support the artist directly and equally about using beauty and tangibility to alter how that limited run is perceived. If there are a hundred copies in existence – how much does acquiring one shape the way you value it? Of course if you cannot get hold of a piece of music, do you suddenly view it with a different hunger?

With Spotify royalties being the stuff of black-comedy and Soundcloud somehow managing to cobble together a business model that makes artists and content providers actually pay for the privilege of being listened to, things are unmistakably dire. Perhaps the most insidious idea touted about is that music should be free and public. The emotional blackmail frequently put to artists is that by attempting to monetise, they are somehow desecrating art. It is an argument generally proposed by people who would laugh you out of the workplace if you suggested they toil for ‘the glow of their craft’.

The Robin Hood School of Music Piracy
There was a time when making music free and divorcing it from a material price was the most profound statement an artist could make. Indeed when Jean Michel Jarre made the single copy of Music for Supermarkets – a single copy predecessor to Once Upon a Time in Shaolin – he actually encouraged its piracy when it was played on Radio Luxembourg. Except this was a time when piracy was a challenge to corporate interest and the establishment. Today, piracy actively reinforces the establishment by disenfranchising the independent whose sole revenue stream is the music itself.

"...If something is free or too easy it will eventually become valueless..."

It is arguable that the most profound statement an artist can make today is to put a price on his music and achieve that price. It speaks to sustainability for the artist themselves and their ability to make a living through their art without a second job to subsidise it. From the listener’s perspective, part of experiencing music is the knowledge that you are contributing back towards the artist, building a circle of human support for something you appreciate. We really aren’t talking about faceless corporate entities any more – the Robin Hood school of music piracy has been wholly subverted by the very forces it once challenged.

It forces people who have lost touch with the idea of recorded music as a piece of art to re-evaluate their perceptions. And that includes musicians themselves. To strip away the indolence that mass access and content saturation have spawned, and realign the emotional connection with a piece of recorded music both as a listener and as an artist. Ubiquity was once the goal of an artist but even that apparently obvious ambition is being recalibrated as the actual nature of engagement really starts to matter. Getting heard is more difficult than ever and yet in many ways it’s no longer enough.

The sorry truth about our society is that if something is free or too easy it will eventually become valueless. If something is not done to rein these dynamics back in we risk losing our respect and relationship with music on levels far more primal than economics. And yet if one looks at money as a symbolic means of establishing value, and exclusivity as a reflex trigger of desire, then perhaps the reassertion of such frameworks is the only way to stem the digital tide of anonymity, corporate blandness and surface engagement. Whether these models will ultimately generate a new depth of connection with music remains to be seen, but a new and fascinating front has been opened.

[zooruka]

If the concept is maintained and not compromised by a corporate approach, then I believe the album will never make its way to your iPod. We can never fully stop a buyer from doing with it what he wants, but we can discourage commercialization by making it difficult and expensive to the point where it won't make much sense to do so.

If I understand this post correct. People should just give up now. Ringz and Co don't want this album listened to in a private domain.


lol @ people saying you could listen to this album in 50 or 100 years time.

[Rev Jones]

A good read! Where was the article originally published? Interesting points about the difference in approach and goals of Jean-Michel Jarre and Cilvaringz.

[Oztradamus]

Cilvaringz, what are the odds that us the die-hard Wu-Tang fans, will be able to hear the album from the comfort of our own home, or our whips blasting this album?


Can somebody post the snippet of the Inspectah Deck/Ghost joint? I would like to hear it

[HEZAKYA]

BLAH BLAH BLAH.....Im not listening to no Music Professor with a PHD tell me about what we should do with Hip-Hop....He dont live in the Hood...He never been called a Nigger or dont know how it feels to go hungry. Wu-Tang always spoke for us who never had a voice in the streets...Now Seth Rogan can buy the Album and throw a Hollywood Listening Party and Invite James Franco and Jonah Hill...While the rest of us Poor Trash just have to "Keep Watch" with Nathanial....Seth and Jonah can laugh...knowing that all the Dirty People of The Ghetto who spent their hard earned money on those original albums.. wont be able to listen to an Album by the "Poor Rightous Aziatic Black Teachers" who are supposed to spread rightousness(HYPOCRITES)


If a kid from the hood has to choose between $50 in Groceries..or Half Ounce of Weed..or 3 new albums by whatever mainstream artist..he's not going to pay to go to a Museum to LISTEN to an 1990 ish Oldies Album with a Bunch of Neck Bearded Posers. The Original Fans who are in their Late 30's aint showing up...so who does that leave? Hmmmmm...This project has already been Commercialized..it has become "Trendy"...I've spent Thousands of Dollars on Wu-Tang related Product since 1993...I've paid my dues and have a right to Complain. These dudes burnt me too many times. Now im Irate...This music is Devalued Bullshit....It's the 21st Century get on Board or get another line of Work....Records have been Bootlegged since the 50's and 60's....It's just a lil easier now...But Drake still Sells Millions of Albums...Rick Ross still sells... ...Kendrick...Beyonce...Jay...Lil Wayne...They dont take their Fans for Granite....They Produce Quality music for their Fanbase and the Music Sells. How the FUCK is "Keep Watch" or "Family Reunion" supposed to Excite us for an Album. The Shit sounds like Old People music..i dont wanna feel old..give me some Headbanger Boogie Music...So i can go back to High School Mentally...Celebrate 20 Years...Wu-Tang used to say that their fans were "On their Dick" who disses their own fans like that??..Method Man said that about Baltimore in 1994...He said Baltimore was on His Dick...and he ended up making a living working in Baltimore on the Wire. WHAT A FRAUD! They got too Cocky for their own good. The Generals is staying quiet about this Cilvaringz Project for right now..they're waiting to see how it play's out..before they Officially Endorse it or Dis-regard it. Im done...my old ass need to take my Blood Pressure Medication...before i have a Fucking Stroke fucking with Poon Tang Clan. Where does Cilvringz find the time to Troll the Internet if he's in Charge of such a Groundbreaking Project?? Oh yes..i forgot.."It's in the Hands Of Err...EXPERTS." Freeing up his time so he can Google Articles and read all about himself.

[ShaDynasty]

I think if you didn't delete the first thread because it showed you lied to wu-tang fans (the people responsible for you having a career), you'd see that i shitted on this album right from the start. lol.

What would you call an album made over 6 years, with verses made in different studios independent of each other, and when the group had no idea what they were recording for? Copy and Paste Project is a pretty good label for it. Maybe you can market it as a Artistic verse and beat assembly project.

I don't care about the album but i am bothered that you're trying to change the way people listen to music. I think a bad precedent is being set. I know its difficult for you to comprehend but if you were just Tarik and not Cilvaringz you might feel the same way if somebody came up with this idea.

I like my record collection, vinyl, cds and mp3 that i've paid for and accumulated over many years. I'm not going to travel anywhere to listen to music unless its live music.

[corky831]

This isn't about a piece of art this about making the most money you can in today's piracy age. I buy an album if I think its worth the purchase. I think a lot more people would respect you in this thread if you just said hey man I need to eat and what I'm doing isn't feeding me......so I came up with this album that will hopefully provide for me.....I'd respect a post like that.....not all this devaluing an art and all that BS. I understand your job is a producer of music. That is what you do......that is your career. You need to make money in your career or else you can't live so I'd respect that. It is no different than someone such as myself who works 50+ hrs a week .....I do it for the bread. The main motive behind this is bread. We all know that especially in this forum. C.R.E.A.M.

[ShaDynasty]

This isn't about a piece of art this about making the most money you can in today's piracy age. I buy an album if I think its worth the purchase. I think a lot more people would respect you in this thread if you just said hey man I need to eat and what I'm doing isn't feeding me......so I came up with this album that will hopefully provide for me.....I'd respect a post like that.....not all this devaluing an art and all that BS. I understand your job is a producer of music. That is what you do......that is your career. You need to make money in your career or else you can't live so I'd respect that. It is no different than someone such as myself who works 50+ hrs a week .....I do it for the bread. The main motive behind this is bread. We all know that especially in this forum. C.R.E.A.M.

Yah word dude needs to stop saying music is art every 2 seconds like its some kind of revelation. Doesn't mean it belongs in a museum, thats where paintings and sculptures belong.

Music is devalued? Absolutely not, nobody is buying that shit and you shouldn't be selling it. All thats devalued is your pockets nigga.

Just admit its about making money.