'It Was Written was better than Illmatic'

[noel411]

To cut through the bullshit, give an example of an album that you do think is 'worthy of praise'.

Cuban Linx, Liquid Swords, Forever...what's your point? I never even said Illmatic isn't worthy of praise.

The only flaw I could think of about Illmatic is actually why I think it is partly so great and that is the length of the LP. Nas kept the track list down and as a result keeps me wishing for more but because of this every track is on point there's nothing to skip and nothing to hold it down. Hip Hop definitely falls in to the trap of far too many songs at times.

That's the best thing about it. And I don't mean that as an insult to the album or anything. If this album is the "prototype for all hip hop to follow" or whatever crap it is people constantly regurgitate, I only wish all other rappers hadn't missed the point about making it short and sweet.

95% (or more) of hip hop albums are longer than they should be, or have any right to be. Most of them are FAR too long. Like cut in half type shit. I listened to that last Inspectah Deck album the other day for the second thyme in my life. I hadn't heard it since my first listen when it dropped. All I remembered of it was that it was painfully, infuriatingly long, and that I had no intention of ever putting myself through it again after I got through it. I mean like the dude's not already boring enough he makes an album that's like 6-7 hours long. It fucken feels that long anyway. People are just fucken clueless.

But yeah, major props to Nas on that aspect. Like I say, I just wish everybody else (and himself) had followed suit.

And yes, I realise 2 of those 3 albums I mentioned are really long. Occasionally an album is worthy of such length. Very rarely though.

And yes, I realise the irony of saying most albums should be cut in half when all my posts should be cut down to about 5% of what they are.

[Ghost In The 'Lac]

Cuban Linx, Liquid Swords, Forever...what's your point? I never even said Illmatic isn't worthy of praise.

.

I'm trying to find out what your point is, not giving you mine. You don't think Illmatic is worthy of its reputation (lol) but think Cuban and Liquidswords and Forever (?) is. Ok, why?

You need to learn how to write less and say more.

[noel411]

The main reason I always write so much is because I have to repeat myself over and over. Like right now having to repeat for probably about the ninth thyme that I never said Illmatic isn't worthy of its reputation.

And the simple reason why I think those albums are far superior to Illmatic is because of how they're put together. The tracks on Illmatic work well together, but it's hardly comparable to CL or LS in that regard. We're all Wu fans here. I don't need to explain how brilliantly those albums are put together to form a whole. Not as much with Forever, but the quality of tracks on that album surpass any other hip hop album I've heard, besides CL and LS. For me personally there's absolutely no comparison between Illmatic and the early Wu classics. It's not even close.

[ShaDynasty]

The main reason I always write so much is because I have to repeat myself over and over. Like right now having to repeat for probably about the ninth thyme that I never said Illmatic isn't worthy of its reputation.

And the simple reason why I think those albums are far superior to Illmatic is because of how they're put together. The tracks on Illmatic work well together, but it's hardly comparable to CL or LS in that regard. We're all Wu fans here. I don't need to explain how brilliantly those albums are put together to form a whole. Not as much with Forever, but the quality of tracks on that album surpass any other hip hop album I've heard, besides CL and LS. For me personally there's absolutely no comparison between Illmatic and the early Wu classics. It's not even close.

Thats fair, I would also say that Reasonable Doubt and Ready To Die, although they were clearly influenced by Illmatic, are more satisfying albums that managed to use some of the same themes and styles and add on.

[cj wisty]

CL is very well put together it plays like a movie. LS is well put together as well. I don't think that 4ever is put together that well. Sounds like rza just threw a pile of great shit together which he probably did.

Reason why illmatic isn't that well put together is cuz multiple producers were making it and no one was a head producer.

[ShaDynasty]

CL is very well put together it plays like a movie. LS is well put together as well. I don't think that 4ever is put together that well. Sounds like rza just threw a pile of great shit together which he probably did.

Reason why illmatic isn't that well put together is cuz multiple producers were making it and no one was a head producer.

Illmatic is very well put together, just because it doesn't have one producer, or a cinematic feel to it?

[cj wisty]

Objectively I can't see anything wrong with Illmatic. It's a close to perfection in hip hop as it comes IMO. Every beat is dope. Nas is on point rhyming on every bar throughout the LP. Story telling is dope. Lyrics are dope. Straight start to finish don't miss a second hip hop.

The only flaw I could think of about Illmatic is actually why I think it is partly so great and that is the length of the LP. Nas kept the track list down and as a result keeps me wishing for more but because of this every track is on point there's nothing to skip and nothing to hold it down. Hip Hop definitely falls in to the trap of far too many songs at times.

Illmatic to me deserves all the praise it gets and more. Personally, 20 years on and I still have Illmatic on heavy rotation and whenever people ask me about hip hop I always start them with Illmatic - along with Liquid Swords - and it has never failed to reach people

I don't think represent and one time 4 ur mind are that lyrical. Some good lines but nothing special. Halftime also has some witty punchlines but nothing awe inspiring.

That's about 1/3 of the album lol. Tbh I mainly hold illmatic in high regards cuz of the production. Lyrically its good but I its nowhere near to the standard were every bar is on point

[cj wisty]

Illmatic is very well put together, just because it doesn't have one producer, or a cinematic feel to it?

It always felt a bit random to me. Same as wu 4ever

[zooruka]

It always felt a bit random to me. Same as wu 4ever

I agree with you about Wu Forever.

[noel411]

I think the track sequencing on disc 1 of Forever is really well thought out. Disc 2 is a bit looser. But it still comes together really well imo. It's hard to put into words the whole vibe and direction of that disc, but I think it's brilliant. The whole way that album is arranged is completely different to LS and CL, but it's still an extremely well compiled album imo.

Reason why illmatic isn't that well put together is cuz multiple producers were making it and no one was a head producer.

That's exactly it, and the same reason why so many great hip hop albums aren't as great as they could have been. I'm a real albums person. I look for artists who know how to compose a whole, in all genres. It's why El-P is one of the small handful of people in hip hop who I still have an interest in. It's why aside from the new Gza and Clan albums, the only forthcoming album I'm waiting on is Madvilliany 2 (wtf ever happened to that anyway?). It's why even though Madvilliany when broken down into individual tracks is little more than mixtape style songs, is one of only 3 post '98 hip hop albums I consider to be a classic. It's why Cold Vein and Supreme Clientele are the others.

But yeah, like I said, the tracks on Illmatic do still fit together really well. But it's certainly nothing special in that regard.

[Sun Tanama]

Theres tons of albums since 98 that had one producer doing the whole album.

And no, you don't need one producer handling the whole thing to make it classic. It just has to be dope and an artistic vision, and maybe that vision doesn't have to be perfectly uniform every time.

[noel411]

Theres tons of albums since 98 that had one producer doing the whole album.

Well yeah, I realise that. I was saying that it's no coincidence that the 3 most outstanding albums from that period all had one producer or were overseen by one executive producer.

And no, you don't need one producer handling the whole thing to make it classic. It just has to be dope and an artistic vision, and maybe that vision doesn't have to be perfectly uniform every time.

Agreed. But there's a much better chance it's gonna come off as a complete album if you've only got one producer. Of course that producer has to know what they're doing too. Not every good producer knows how to make good albums.

[The Hound]

17-2

/thread

[zooruka]

Noel & Sun..... What do you think of Gravediggaz "6 Feet Deep" album. Do you think it is well produced/executed and do you think it comes off as a complete album.

?????

[Polocash7]

illmatic is definitely better however nas is lyrically better and more consistent on IWW

THiS. Nas lyrically was just damn right nasty