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Thread: Is science showing there really is a God?

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    Default Is science showing there really is a God?

    Is science showing there really is a God?

    N 1966 Time magazine ran a cover story asking: Is God Dead? Many have accepted the cultural narrative that he’s obsolete — that as science progresses, there is less need for a “God” to explain the universe. Yet it turns out that the rumours of God’s death were premature. More amazing is that the relatively recent case for his existence comes from a surprising place — science itself.


    Here’s the story: The same year Time featured the now-famous headline, the astronomer Carl Sagan announced that there were two important criteria for a planet to support life: The right kind of star, and a planet the right distance from that star. Given the roughly octillion — 1 followed by 24 zeros — planets in the universe, there should have been about septillion — 1 followed by 21 zeros — planets capable of supporting life.

    With such spectacular odds, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, a large, expensive collection of private and publicly funded projects launched in the 1960s, was sure to turn up something soon. Scientists listened with a vast radio telescopic network for signals that resembled coded intelligence and were not merely random. But as years passed, the silence from the rest of the universe was deafening. Congress defunded SETI in 1993, but the search continues with private funds. As of 2014, researches have discovered precisely bubkis — 0 followed by nothing.

    What happened? As our knowledge of the universe increased, it became clear that there were far more factors necessary for life than Sagan supposed. His two parameters grew to 10 and then 20 and then 50, and so the number of potentially life-supporting planets decreased accordingly. The number dropped to a few thousand planets and kept on plummeting.
    Even SETI proponents acknowledged the problem. Peter Schenkel wrote in a 2006 piece for Skeptical Inquirer magazine: “In light of new findings and insights, it seems appropriate to put excessive euphoria to rest ... We should quietly admit that the early estimates ... may no longer be tenable.”
    As factors continued to be discovered, the number of possible planets hit zero, and kept going. In other words, the odds turned against any planet in the universe supporting life, including this one. Probability said that even we shouldn’t be here.

    Today there are more than 200 known parameters necessary for a planet to support life — every single one of which must be perfectly met, or the whole thing falls apart. Without a massive planet like Jupiter nearby, whose gravity will draw away asteroids, a thousand times as many would hit Earth’s surface. The odds against life in the universe are simply astonishing.
    Yet here we are, not only existing, but talking about existing. What can account for it? Can every one of those many parameters have been perfect by accident? At what point is it fair to admit that science suggests that we cannot be the result of random forces? Doesn’t assuming that an intelligence created these perfect conditions require far less faith than believing that a life-sustaining Earth just happened to beat the inconceivable odds to come into being?

    There’s more. The finetuning necessary for life to exist on a planet is nothing compared with the finetuning required for the universe to exist at all. For example, astrophysicists now know that the values of the four fundamental forces — gravity, the electromagnetic force, and the “strong” and “weak” nuclear forces — were determined less than one millionth of a second after the big bang. Alter any one value and the universe could not exist. For instance, if the ratio between the nuclear strong force and the electromagnetic force had been off by the tiniest fraction of the tiniest fraction — by even one part in 100,000,000,000,000,000 — then no stars could have ever formed at all. Feel free to gulp.

    Multiply that single parameter by all the other necessary conditions, and the odds against the universe existing are so heart-stoppingly astronomical that the notion that it all “just happened” defies common sense. It would be like tossing a coin and having it come up heads 10 quintillion times in a row. Really?

    Fred Hoyle, the astronomer who coined the term “big bang,” said that his atheism was “greatly shaken” at these developments. He later wrote that “a commonsense interpretation of the facts suggests that a super-intellect has monkeyed with the physics, as well as with chemistry and biology ... The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question.”

    Theoretical physicist Paul Davies has said that “the appearance of design is overwhelming” and Oxford professor Dr. John Lennox has said “the more we get to know about our universe, the more the hypothesis that there is a Creator ... gains in credibility as the best explanation of why we are here.”
    The greatest miracle of all time, without any close seconds, is the universe. It is the miracle of all miracles, one that ineluctably points with the combined brightness of every star to something — or Someone — beyond itself.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...14f40f70ca91b1
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    fun read. I've read books that did a far greater job at using science as a case to prove god, so I was hoping this would have a more interesting take than using sheer odds


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mumm Ra View Post
    fun read. I've read books that did a far greater job at using science as a case to prove god, so I was hoping this would have a more interesting take than using sheer odds
    It's a news article it's not going to be anywhere near as detailed as a book
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    Doesn’t assuming that an intelligence created these perfect conditions require far less faith than believing that a life-sustaining Earth just happened to beat the inconceivable odds to come into being?

    This stood out for me. And the answer is yes.

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    that was quite the read, thanks for this

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    Quote Originally Posted by diggy View Post
    Doesn’t assuming that an intelligence created these perfect conditions require far less faith than believing that a life-sustaining Earth just happened to beat the inconceivable odds to come into being?

    This stood out for me. And the answer is yes.
    No, not really.

    There are plenty of planets out there that could more than likely sustain carbon based life. Also approx. 4 years back NASA held a press conference about the discovery of arsenic based life (bacterium) - found on earth. SETI coming up emtpy in regards to finding radio signals or a sign of another civilization attempting to make contact isnt really a big deal.

    Our search has just begun. Microwave transmission may actually be an extremely primitive form of communication in our galaxy or others. If anything humans are under observation by type I or II civilizations because we are considered feral, short-sighted creatures. We just recently started to experiment with cloaking physical objects. Now imagine intelligent, conscious lifeforms which may have perfected this and hide in plain sight.

    Beating inconveivable odds happens so frequently in our lives and in this vast, expansive universe that I don't consider planet earth coming into existence all that unique or perplexing. Seeing that design is embedded into everything in the cosmos may in fact mean yes - some sort of intelligence or architect is responsible; however I can't come to grips with it being an omnipotent, celestial boogey-man space-god that watches you masturbate or creates a set of menstrual laws LOL.

    Really don't understand the lengths people go to in order to find that comfort blanket or justify such a hubristic existence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EAGLE EYE View Post
    No, not really.

    There are plenty of planets out there that could more than likely sustain carbon based life.

    But do they have ALL the characteristics that our earth has to sustain life including single cell to multicellular organisms?


    Quote Originally Posted by EAGLE EYE View Post
    SETI coming up emtpy in regards to finding radio signals or a sign of another civilization attempting to make contact isnt really a big deal.
    I agree.


    Quote Originally Posted by EAGLE EYE View Post
    Beating inconveivable odds happens so frequently in our lives and in this vast, expansive universe that I don't consider planet earth coming into existence all that unique or perplexing.
    Maybe not, but there is something that is making it beat the odds.


    Quote Originally Posted by EAGLE EYE View Post
    Seeing that design is embedded into everything in the cosmos may in fact mean yes - some sort of intelligence or architect is responsible; however I can't come to grips with it being an omnipotent, celestial boogey-man space-god that watches you masturbate or creates a set of menstrual laws LOL.

    Really don't understand the lengths people go to in order to find that comfort blanket or justify such a hubristic existence.
    ok.

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    Some promising candidates.. Nothing guaranteed

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknap...table-planets/

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    Quote Originally Posted by diggy View Post
    Doesn’t assuming that an intelligence created these once perfect conditions require far less faith than believing that a life-sustaining Earth just happened to beat the inconceivable odds to come into being?
    Fixed.

    Faith's binding Darkness pales in comparison to the blinding Light of Truth.
    Belief attempts to find God : on the outside - Understand : To Stand Under God.
    Knowing however is Innerstanding that the kingdom of God is within you yourself.


    Quote Originally Posted by EAGLE EYE View Post
    Seeing that design is embedded into everything in the cosmos may in fact mean yes - some sort of intelligence or architect is responsible; however I can't come to grips with it being an omnipotent, celestial boogey-man space-god that watches you masturbate or creates a set of menstrual laws LOL.
    "May In Fact Mean Yes" lol

    Our minds will only be able to go so far when wrestling with such high concepts
    Almost like a fail-safe or defence mechanism when getting too close to innerstanding.

    Like you won't be able to fit it altogether in the world you have grown up in.
    We are only seeing half of the picture in terms of As Above So Below & Inside / Outside
    So unnaturally people who claim to be of God get on their knees and worship :
    The Sun, The Moon & The Stars....Statues of Deities, Church, Mosque, Temple = OUTSIDE

    This creates a problem when you watch that scene from "The Devil's Rejects"
    Where Otis says to the dude:


    "I Want You To Pray To Your God.
    I Want You To Pray That He Comes And Saves You!
    I Want Lightning To Come And Crash Down Upon My Fucking Head!"


    The great game being played is the already rejected Christ on the outside:
    Has been literally silenced on the inside and disguised & replaced as Lucifer.

    You were nurtured to tug on the experts sleeve:
    And tricked out of speaking to the Christ (Jiminy Cricket) inside.
    Nor seek council within yourself to answer questions you ask....yourself.
    With the consciousness that was distributed to the 4 corners of the Earth (The Cross)
    Once Jesus (The Man) sacrificed himself for Mankind (For Man To Be Kind) and know.

    So that we may even begin to have the capacity to ask such questions as this.

    It's become a Rabbit Hole for those that don't know and live in a world of opinion
    The same ones to think entertainment is simply a show and it shows you nothing lol
    Again you only C 1 side of what is actually in plain view & openly free to clearly see.

    That's why if you don't follow Legion:
    (Christians, Muslims, Jews, any separate group etc...)
    You are labelled as the oddball/strange/weird person when those people are more in tune
    With their true self allowing the spirit & soul to conversate on the inside....
    Yet sadly get laughed at by Legion on the outside :

    Dumb fucks who think God is only for them and you have to be a member to have access.
    i.e. God Hates Religion all it does is remodel the Emerald Tablets to said region's likeness.
    While exiling-condemning those who have a different version-volume of the same source


    "Magic Is Just Science That We Don't Understand Yet"

    -- Arthur C. Clarke


    Or....Magic is simply :
    Science from a once working system where being's knew things like:
    The density of matter, The geometry of light, Time on the Periodic Table & could see in 4D.

    We are in a different time / dimension than those who came before us
    Our idea of linear time is laughable once you can see the cycle of all this.


    Quote Originally Posted by EAGLE EYE View Post
    Really don't understand the lengths people go to in order to find that comfort blanket or justify such a hubristic existence.
    Ego.
    Last edited by Guarded By Martyrs; 01-13-2015 at 02:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guarded By Martyrs View Post
    Fixed.

    Faith's binding Darkness pales in comparison to the blinding Light of Truth.
    Belief attempts to find God : on the outside - Understand : To Stand Under God.
    Knowing however is Innerstanding that the kingdom of God is within you yourself.




    "May In Fact Mean Yes" lol

    Our minds will only be able to go so far when wrestling with such high concepts
    Almost like a fail-safe or defence mechanism when getting too close to innerstanding.

    Like you won't be able to fit it altogether in the world you have grown up in.
    We are only seeing half of the picture in terms of As Above So Below & Inside / Outside
    So unnaturally people who claim to be of God get on their knees and worship :
    The Sun, The Moon & The Stars....Statues of Deities, Church, Mosque, Temple = OUTSIDE

    This creates a problem when you watch that scene from "The Devil's Rejects"
    Where Otis says to the dude:


    "I Want You To Pray To Your God.
    I Want You To Pray That He Comes And Saves You!
    I Want Lightning To Come And Crash Down Upon My Fucking Head!"


    The great game being played is the already rejected Christ on the outside:
    Has been literally silenced on the inside and disguised & replaced as Lucifer.

    You were nurtured to tug on the experts sleeve:
    And tricked out of speaking to the Christ (Jiminy Cricket) inside.
    Nor seek council within yourself to answer questions you ask....yourself.
    With the consciousness that was distributed to the 4 corners of the Earth (The Cross)
    Once Jesus (The Man) sacrificed himself for Mankind (For Man To Be Kind) and know.

    So that we may even begin to have the capacity to ask such questions as this.

    It's become a Rabbit Hole for those that don't know and live in a world of opinion
    The same ones to think entertainment is simply a show and it shows you nothing lol
    Again you only C 1 side of what is actually in plain view & openly free to clearly see.

    That's why if you don't follow Legion:
    (Christians, Muslims, Jews, any separate group etc...)
    You are labelled as the oddball/strange/weird person when those people are more in tune
    With their true self allowing the spirit & soul to conversate on the inside....
    Yet sadly get laughed at by Legion on the outside :

    Dumb fucks who think God is only for them and you have to be a member to have access.
    i.e. God Hates Religion all it does is remodel the Emerald Tablets to said region's likeness.
    While exiling-condemning those who have a different version-volume of the same source


    "Magic Is Just Science That We Don't Understand Yet"

    -- Arthur C. Clarke


    Or....Magic is simply :
    Science from a once working system where being's knew things like:
    The density of matter, The geometry of light, Time on the Periodic Table & could see in 4D.

    We are in a different time / dimension than those who came before us
    Our idea of linear time is laughable once you can see the cycle of all this.




    Ego.

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