Yall really dont like ABT?

[Mumm Ra]

Word, 36 seasons is a one or two listen and forget it album imo. Very disappointing.

I still listen to ABT in full once a week.

been the opposite for me

[claaa7]

i liked both the new Wu and the new Ghost, but i play "A Better Tomorrow" a lot more. at least a few front-to-back listens each week still. i think RZA always bring dope beats to the Clan albums (unlike his solo albums which generally don't do much for me), though i know and respect that the majority disagrees on that point. i feel that he's taken a lot of influence from his work with The Revelations in producing "Chamber Music" and "Legendary Weapons" in creating the backdrops for this. it doesn't have the grittiness of past Wu albums but i find the majority of it to be sonically interesting and really pulling me in. but its a step down from any other WTC album and i have no hard time understanding why a lot of people are not feeling it.

"Miracle" is an interesting track in that it seems to divide listeners more sharply than probably any previous Clan record. people seem to either think it's one of the worst Wu songs of all time or one of the best tracks on the LP. for me it's a stand out, the only part i don't like is the additional instrumentation under Ghost's verse. and speaking of the lyrics on that one - how can anyone not dig Deck's verse? fucking fire...

one thing I absolutely don't get though which bugs me, reading interviews with RZA in preparation of both "A.B.T." and earlier with "8 Diagrams" it is obvious that he somehow has decided that Wu-Tang Clan albums is a world event that must be steered in the direction of blessing the listeners with a message and uniting people... where in the fuck did that idea come from RZA?? the whole "36 Chambers" there's not one message song on there at all, it's the other way around.. "Wu-Tang Clan Ain't Nothing to Fuck With", "Protect Ya Neck".. "Turn the other cheek and I'll break your fucking chin", etc.

[Punch]

It can be argued that both Tearz and CREAM are tracks with a message.
Also, Forever's A Better Tomorrow.

[jokostyle]

Isn't it the first WTC album that don't have Power in the executive producers list ?

[claaa7]

It can be argued that both Tearz and CREAM are tracks with a message.
Also, Forever's A Better Tomorrow.

agreed, point taken.. but what i says still stands, why should the Wu-Tang Clan albums be a Transcendental Meditation event for the world, that's not what they are known for though they've done plenty of good tracks that speaks about issues and solutions

Isn't it the first WTC album that don't have Power in the executive producers list ?

yes, i'm pretty sure it is... back in the days it was always Ghost, RZA, Divine and Power on all the solo albums and Clan albums. anyone noticed how all those were execs on ODB's first except RZA?

[CharlesJones]

I agree with you Claaa7 about it's funny that The RZA is trying to change Wu Tang and make them a social message group when that's not how they started LOL. They made ignorant songs when they first came out and that's why they got so much love. Cream and Tearz are social message songs but most of their songs were hardcore in the beginning and they should've stuck to that. I do think it's nice though that The RZA wanted to name the album A Better Tomorrow so he could let ignorant blacks know that there's another way you can get outta the ghetto and have some success if you educate yourself and work hard.

[Punch]

The "message", while having roots on 36, really starts with Forever, remember "you don't need to go to school, just pick up that Wu-Tang double cd". We can see that RZA really meant for it to be an important album That's also, not coincidentally, the album that made a lot casual hip-hop fans lose interest in the Wu.
That message crept into The W, not as much IF, then came back strong on 8D. Of course it all comes to a point on ABT, with the most overt attempts to mantain a peaceful vibe throughout.
There's nothing wrong with that. RZA has nothing to prove as an artist anymore. At the same time, though, the music has to interesting. My problem with RZA's new style is that there's very little in it that's Witty and even less that's Unpredictable.

[The blackma]

The "message", while having roots on 36, really starts with Forever, remember "you don't need to go to school, just pick up that Wu-Tang double cd". We can see that RZA really meant for it to be an important album That's also, not coincidentally, the album that made a lot casual hip-hop fans lose interest in the Wu.
That message crept into The W, not as much IF, then came back strong on 8D. Of course it all comes to a point on ABT, with the most overt attempts to mantain a peaceful vibe throughout.
There's nothing wrong with that. RZA has nothing to prove as an artist anymore. At the same time, though, the music has to interesting. My problem with RZA's new style is that there's very little in it that's Witty and even less that's Unpredictable.

Agree this new style is not unpredictable and witty at all. I think he can't evolve. He is just trying to make dope beats. I really miss the incredible beats he could produce.

[claaa7]

really good review of "A.B.T." imo:

http://www.stereogum.com/1722423/alb...m-of-the-week/

[Merc Versus]

Just my 2 cents...

There is a difference between liking Wu and FEELING Wu. Some of those that are entertained by the violent content of previous Wu albums beg for more shootouts. I'm sure a lot of the stories in their songs come from real life experience. One person's pain is another person's compact disc.

Some of those that relate to a lifestyle of struggle and those that have grown with Wu can respect the progression. Just because Inspectah Deck rhymed about a little girl getting shot in the head on Gza's Cold World doesn't mean he thought it was fun and entertaining. He was expressing the harsh realities of impoverished life in America. Wu isn't starving anymore and they know we know that. Just like Jay Z (gasp) and Nas, they are grown ass men still writing poetry and trying to keep it as believable as they can.

At risk of being long-winded, Rza isn't a beatmaker anymore. He's a producer. He uses live vocalists and instrumentation, not crackling chopped samples. If that so-called "Disney-esque" hook on Miracle was singing vocals sampled from an old school Kung Fu flick, cats would be gushing over it.

I think I can understand Rza's perspective. He wants to go down in history as a producer, not a crusty sample chopper. Dr. Dre is respected more along the lines of a Quincy Jones than a Dilla. Remember what sound fueled Wu-Tang's original popularity? Old school soul samples. These songs were recorded by live musicians and vocalists. Fast forward to 20 years after Wu's inception and Rza has the finances, skill, and knowledge to produce original soul tracks instead of cutting and pasting someone else's heartfelt work.

This is not a diss to the art of sampling or crate digging. Both are still highly important factors of hip hop music. But you have to realize that Rza is trying to reach beyond the preconceived notions of what hip hop is. He is a mature, artistic human being with a history of misery trying to release a soulful masterpiece with a message. For whatever reason, I'm not sure many of the Clan members agree with that approach. Maybe because so few of them are producers themselves.

Once again, just my opinion...

[Mumm Ra]

I think you're underestimating wu-tang's audience a little

anybody who took Deck's line about a little girl getting shot as fun and entertaining has some real mental issues
and IMO, wu-tang's lyrics are almost more violent nowadays than in the 90s, ESPECIALLY Ghost's (ABT being an exception I suppose). You kinda said it yourself - at least back then they incorporated violence into a story to have a deeper meaning.

Wu-tang lyrically was much more esoteric, metaphoric, complex, and not to sound cliché but kicked more knowledge on earlier albums than ABT which I think is what wu fans are calling for, not more shootouts. We can get violent lyrics from any hip hop artist but that's not what drew people to Wu-Tang in the first place - they were different.

I can feel you on the RZA part though.

[Merc Versus]

I see what you're saying. It just reminds me of the current state of sports and entertainment amid a turbulent social climate. Football players are viewed as a source of entertainment, but when they decide to express their political opinions, watch the fans moan...

It's kinda like "we are paying you to throw that ball and run, so just throw that ball and run". The same thing goes for music, in particular hip hop music. Once an artist gets to political he's labeled as being preachy. "Just rap about that fun entertaining stuff, that hardcore stuff. I don't want to hear about your politics". Maybe it's because most of the rap music sold is purchased by a different demographic/tax bracket than those who make it.

"Positive brothers ain't gotta be soft. It's time to start knockin' you fake niggas off." -Poetic the Grym Reaper of Gravediggaz (Elimination Process) <- Listen to the intro of this song.

[Illmatic Hispanic]

since on subject.. i think "ruckus in the b minor" and "miracle" were aimed for a Super bowl. wouldn't if be sick
to have Wu on super bowl its long over due.. they established themselves already .

[Mumm Ra]

wu-tang will never perform for the super bowl

[zooruka]

wu-tang will never perform for the super bowl

That would be dope though.