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Thread: Obama DID found ISIS though

  1. #16
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    i think putin is doing the best job out there for everyone. why? because putins actions stabilise syria whereas the american government loves supporting "freedom fighters" which fucks up countries. its not about right or wrong because you need to be pragmatic. assads probably not the best but theres no point causing problems by chucking him out.


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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by SL33 View Post
    It is funny how american media outlets omit the fact that a huge % of ISIS and Al Nusra soldiers are in fact of European origin: mostly Albanians, Bosnian muslims and Arab diaspora. You will seldom see Sudanese or Somali fighters amongst them, let alone muslims from the Far East, excluding Uyghurs of China. ISIS leadership definately comes from former Iraqi officers and Chechen veterans though. All of these armies and their warriors are in fact old American allies, and yes ISIS is Al Qaeda with better marketing.

    Basically, double standards are the core of American policy since all of these fuck-ups were engaged in anti-Soviet uprising and Yugoslav wars.


    Russians are in need of these bombings because if Syrian government fails, thousands of these soldiers will come to Central Asia and South Russia. But basically, this is a gas pipeline war. Also, some ppl say that Russians hesitate to help Hesbollah due to some agreement they have with Israel. Hesbollah is the only well trained and equipped army out there and this is one of the reason why Aleppo operation goes very slow.


    Egypt is a mistery to me beacuse this new guy, Sissi is more or less normal but excluding him all of those countries have already failed. How will they ever restore Syrian infrastructure and cities? Only by importing millions of chinese workers I guess. IDK.
    lol everytime i hear about bosnian muslims (bosniaks) it reminds me of that retarded serbia strong meme lol.








    and finally wtf is this. this isnt even a meme its 100% serious lol.



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  3. #18
    Hungry Hyena From Medina SL33's Avatar
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    We had this discusion before.

    During the era of G. W. Bush, Syria was labeled as a rogue state or a terror state along with N. Korea. Also, the only Russian naval port in the entire Mediterranean happens to be in Syria. A while back, Russian Gazprom was starting to buy a whole bunch of state-owned oil and gas companies in the Eastern Europe with plan to establish a project called South Stream that provides Russian gas for European customers. That pipeline was supposed to go under the entire Black Sea region, through the Balkans and further towards Italy, Austria, France etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Stream

    Meanwhile, a huge conglomerate of oil producers based in the Gulf and lead by the US made a plan to supply Europe with its own gas that would be transferred through Jordan, Syria, Mediterranean etc. A Soros-sponsored coup d'etat was staged in Ukraine that has cca 50% of Russian speaking citizens and which was historically a part of Russia, sanctions on Russia were imposed due to 'agression' on Ukraine which was never proven.

    Ousting Assad is convenient for the US because: a) Russia will likely loose its port in the city of Tartus, b) Qatari pipeline will be ready for building.


    A civil war in Yemen that escalated a year a go is a proxy war as well. This is why Al Jazeera is the only TV in the world that refers to these terrorists as rebels or even freedom fighters. But of course, every country in the region has its own agenda-Turkey, Iran, Israel etc. A sectarian war emerges, since Iran looks for its interest and shi'ias of Syria. Millions of refugees are being sent to Europe as a way of political pressure on the declining EU whereas carefully planned propaganda is used against Russian military intervention (if you have seen that boy in Aleppo, you know what I'm talking about).

    Crisis in Ukraine and Syrian war are entwined.
    Last edited by SL33; 08-26-2016 at 02:06 AM.




  4. #19
    Honk Honk. soul controller's Avatar
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    this is all i can add to the convo...


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    ^^rofl!
    Retired.

  6. #21
    'The Fourhorsemen' TSA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SL33 View Post
    We had this discusion before.

    During the era of G. W. Bush, Syria was labeled as a rogue state or a terror state along with N. Korea. Also, the only Russian naval port in the entire Mediterranean happens to be in Syria. A while back, Russian Gazprom was starting to buy a whole bunch of state-owned oil and gas companies in the Eastern Europe with plan to establish a project called South Stream that provides Russian gas for European customers. That pipeline was supposed to go under the entire Black Sea region, through the Balkans and further towards Italy, Austria, France etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Stream

    Meanwhile, a huge conglomerate of oil producers based in the Gulf and lead by the US made a plan to supply Europe with its own gas that would be transferred through Jordan, Syria, Mediterranean etc. A Soros-sponsored coup d'etat was staged in Ukraine that has cca 50% of Russian speaking citizens and which was historically a part of Russia, sanctions on Russia were imposed due to 'agression' on Ukraine which was never proven.

    Ousting Assad is convenient for the US because: a) Russia will likely loose its port in the city of Tartus, b) Qatari pipeline will be ready for building.


    A civil war in Yemen that escalated a year a go is a proxy war as well. This is why Al Jazeera is the only TV in the world that refers to these terrorists as rebels or even freedom fighters. But of course, every country in the region has its own agenda-Turkey, Iran, Israel etc. A sectarian war emerges, since Iran looks for its interest and shi'ias of Syria. Millions of refugees are being sent to Europe as a way of political pressure on the declining EU whereas carefully planned propaganda is used against Russian military intervention (if you have seen that boy in Aleppo, you know what I'm talking about).

    Crisis in Ukraine and Syrian war are entwined.
    That makes a lot of sense.

  7. #22
    Platypi on the swarm!! RUSHING PLATYPUS's Avatar
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    Given the fact that ISIS was formed by the same people who were Al Qaeda in Iraq I'm not sure how ISIS could be entirely blamed on Obama. Because they changed their name while he was President? lol

  8. #23
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    nah dude, they helped train and fund isis, using turkey/jordan as bases for training.. and israel for its medical needs when these jihadists get shot/injured in action


    just type in israel treats isis soldiers..

    you will get countless hits from israeli news sites.

    which raises the question, why the helping soldiers/mercs/muslims but not the innocent civiliians in the towns.

  9. #24
    The ABBOTT noel411's Avatar
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    So, here is the fact. I am a 16 years girl & usually come back home from School at 3.00 afternoon and that is the time my Mom leaves for Gym for two hours. My Dad goes for work and returns home only in the evening, now, me & my dog are left alone at home. That is the time I get indulge in to Masturbation.everyday. I love & enjoy doing this & I do it 2/3 times in these two hours. I am without any cloths during the game play. Of late, I noticed that my dog comes and sits on sofa & watches my act but I never bothered about it, thinking that he is a dog only & not human being. Today I was not so well so did not pick-up mood for masturbation. But my dog got around me and to my surprise, he pulled me to bed & forced me to get naked by pulling-up my shirt and tore my pantie. He practically insisted me to go for it and than sat at his place and kept me watching without causing any harm. After I finished, he just moved to garden area, as usual.

    Now my question is whether is this weird and indication of any complication in future. What shall I do. I can not control my self and my dog wants me to watch. I need serious help & suggestion. Please guide me.

  10. #25
    anglophone rainbow's Avatar
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    the online support for the despotic putin... is clawing, but makes me realise how alienated a lot of people are - something that's often mislabelled as apathy by the naive mass media.

    the way politics has been turned into a PR and advertising exercise in the west is probably the cause of that - i just wish people weren't so reactionary, and didn't automatically assume a polar opposite of that system is meritorious by contrast.

    it speaks to the lack of appreciation for freedom within democracies - to the point where people will praise the actions of quasi-dictators in undemocratic, single party states, lamenting that their own, democratically elected government can't be equally decisive and strong. however, the one thing that can be said for putin and his government, is that their actions more clearly follow an agenda which would be favourable to Russia.

    the way the US has let it's foreign policy become coopted by backroom agendas makes the public (as TSA noted) bewildered and cynical regarding the overriding motivation. my belief is that the sporadic, expansionist mindset of the US government post ww2 has really just been the work of handful megalomaniacs, exacting their own, perverse desires on other countries. this can be seen from mcnamara and kissinger through to fucking b. clinton and h. clinton (who incidentally counts kissinger as one of her 'go to guys' for foreign policy advice - which is frightening and has already been shown to be disastrous for libya).

    the obama government's random interventionism represents the predictable, and condemnable, continuation of that tendency.

    with relation to Syria, these outside influencers will fuck around for as long as they see they have an interest in doing so, and then fuck off - leaving either the pre-existing but emboldened, repugnant dictatorship or a power vacuum - ripe to be filled by even viler ideologues and war mongering, religious zealots.

    it's pretty much the same old story, and will likely end in the same messy and inconclusive way all of these conflicts seem to. the way the US and european nations have fucked around in africa, south america and the middle east in last 60 or so years is a disgrace, reflective of an insidious imperialist mind state within "western nations" that should have logically subsided in concurrence with the recession of colonialism.

    all that said - attributing secondary, indirect blame to individuals for the creation of political groups is just erroneous and serves no purpose. blaming obama for ISIS, as i said, removes blame from those who literally created it and further exonerates other parties who've had influence in it's creation and proliferation. it stifles criticism of ISIS and the ideological foundation upon which it was founded (ie. a manifest destiny to reclaim the levant and impose sharia law, along with various other liberty crushing doctrines.)

    this is an horrific prospect for the diverse populous of countries affected - yet people are more worried about who is to blame for all of this rather than actually trying to combat it with any efficacy or permanence.

    TSA, you raised boko haram, and i'll agree with you that there isn't much global interest in helping Nigeria and other african countries combat this equally nasty group - but what does that have to do with the situation inside syria? Wondering about who we can blame for these things and how they stack up along other similar things, is just obfuscation and mental masturbation.

    if you insist that the blame for ISIS must fall on third parties, then you can take this logic back as far as you want: surely russia is to blame for withdrawing from afghanistan in the late 80s, leading to a power vacuum, filled by the Taliban and other nefarious groups - spawning the salafist jihadist movements we see today?

    or are the US to blame for sponsoring these groups in the ensuing years of internal conflict? Or is bush snr. to blame for the way his government let hussein remain in power? - or do you blame his dimwitted son for going back to the Gulf to dismantle that albeit shaky stability?

    or do you blame the wealthy, Wahabbi benefactors of these groups for facilitating their spread?

    surely all of the above and more are to blame in part - the idea that obama's and his government's actions directly instigated the creation of ISIS is just fallacious and misleading.



    why simplify ISIS and it's creation to the attribution of inadvertent, third party blame? why not just critically look at what is happening, in order to explicate responsibility?

    isn't it painfully obvious by now that interventionist, paternalistic foreign policy agendas generally result in all kinds of problems for all parties, regardless of intention? (especially when handled in the slap-dash manner which is favoured by the US).

    and further that absolutist and fundamentalist belief systems are inherently dangerous and combatting them is complicated and should involve a range of responses - not just short term, self-interested military intervention?

    combining these two things is what has led to the creation of ISIS - if you're looking for who to blame and want to absolute about it.
    Last edited by rainbow; 09-09-2016 at 10:14 AM.



  11. #26
    anglophone rainbow's Avatar
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    additionally, the idea that trump is the panacea for america's obsession with messing around outside it's borders is ludicrous, but it does nicely encapsulate the current desperate nature of western political systems.

    unfortunately, trump represents no consistent ideological or pragmatic position on anything - even if he did and were to become president, it's delusional to think he would/could reverse america's intractable foreign interests.

    departments are not overturned with change of government and in the case of US foreign policy, the tail wags the dog.

    the NSA has taken up the mantle as the preeminent organisation in determining your country's foreign policy agenda (from the CIA) and the permeative implications of that will play out in the coming decades, regardless of who is president or the makeup of congress.
    Last edited by rainbow; 08-27-2016 at 08:15 AM.



  12. #27
    anglophone rainbow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noel411 View Post
    So, here is the fact. I am a 16 years girl & usually come back home from School at 3.00 afternoon and that is the time my Mom leaves for Gym for two hours. My Dad goes for work and returns home only in the evening, now, me & my dog are left alone at home. That is the time I get indulge in to Masturbation.everyday. I love & enjoy doing this & I do it 2/3 times in these two hours. I am without any cloths during the game play. Of late, I noticed that my dog comes and sits on sofa & watches my act but I never bothered about it, thinking that he is a dog only & not human being. Today I was not so well so did not pick-up mood for masturbation. But my dog got around me and to my surprise, he pulled me to bed & forced me to get naked by pulling-up my shirt and tore my pantie. He practically insisted me to go for it and than sat at his place and kept me watching without causing any harm. After I finished, he just moved to garden area, as usual.

    Now my question is whether is this weird and indication of any complication in future. What shall I do. I can not control my self and my dog wants me to watch. I need serious help & suggestion. Please guide me.



  13. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by rat fakerman View Post
    additionally, the idea that trump is the panacea for america's obsession with messing around outside it's borders is ludicrous, but it does nicely encapsulate the current desperate nature of western political systems.

    unfortunately, trump represents no consistent ideological or pragmatic position on anything - even if he did and were to become president, it's delusional to think he would/could reverse america's intractable foreign interests.

    departments are not overturned with change of government and in the case of US foreign policy, the tail wags the dog.

    the NSA has taken up the mantle as the preeminent organisation in determining your country's foreign policy agenda (from the CIA) and the permeative implications of that will play out in the coming decades, regardless of who is president or the makeup of congress.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by SL33 View Post
    We had this discusion before.

    During the era of G. W. Bush, Syria was labeled as a rogue state or a terror state along with N. Korea. Also, the only Russian naval port in the entire Mediterranean happens to be in Syria. A while back, Russian Gazprom was starting to buy a whole bunch of state-owned oil and gas companies in the Eastern Europe with plan to establish a project called South Stream that provides Russian gas for European customers. That pipeline was supposed to go under the entire Black Sea region, through the Balkans and further towards Italy, Austria, France etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Stream

    Meanwhile, a huge conglomerate of oil producers based in the Gulf and lead by the US made a plan to supply Europe with its own gas that would be transferred through Jordan, Syria, Mediterranean etc. A Soros-sponsored coup d'etat was staged in Ukraine that has cca 50% of Russian speaking citizens and which was historically a part of Russia, sanctions on Russia were imposed due to 'agression' on Ukraine which was never proven.

    Ousting Assad is convenient for the US because: a) Russia will likely loose its port in the city of Tartus, b) Qatari pipeline will be ready for building.


    A civil war in Yemen that escalated a year a go is a proxy war as well. This is why Al Jazeera is the only TV in the world that refers to these terrorists as rebels or even freedom fighters. But of course, every country in the region has its own agenda-Turkey, Iran, Israel etc. A sectarian war emerges, since Iran looks for its interest and shi'ias of Syria. Millions of refugees are being sent to Europe as a way of political pressure on the declining EU whereas carefully planned propaganda is used against Russian military intervention (if you have seen that boy in Aleppo, you know what I'm talking about).

    Crisis in Ukraine and Syrian war are entwined.
    is this aimed at me. I wasnt disagreeing with your earlier posts lol.


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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by soul controller View Post
    nah dude, they helped train and fund isis, using turkey/jordan as bases for training.. and israel for its medical needs when these jihadists get shot/injured in action


    just type in israel treats isis soldiers..

    you will get countless hits from israeli news sites.

    which raises the question, why the helping soldiers/mercs/muslims but not the innocent civiliians in the towns.
    i didnt think israel created isis. i know israel helped hamas because they thought hamas would break up the plo. but i think isis is just shit scared of israel so wont attack them and israel doesnt care about isis.


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