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Thread: Proof that I'm enlightened

  1. #16


    are you still paying that hot black lady to charles jones ya?

  2. #17


    Quote Originally Posted by beautifulcock View Post
    are you still paying that hot black lady to charles jones ya?
    No the bitch had me eat her out twice and then she's like I will be your girlfriend if you start giving me money but I don't trust you that much yet so I'm not going to fuck you till you give me some money and I guess through wishful thinking I never really considered she was a prostitute and that's what it seemed like in the end and my friends girlfriend is significantly hotter than she was and she would have fucked me for way cheaper than what I gave to this bitch. The first time I seen her I ate her out twice and in retrospect that's gross. The second time I came over and smoked 2 blunts with her and we didn't do anything.i came back the 3rd time gave her the money then almost immediately she said I got to go and I'm like fuck that give me my money back I gave her what I gave her plus 50 for some shit she was going to get and I had really illegal parafinelia on me and she starts saying I'm calling the cops now im calling the cops so I ran and hid my backpack then went back inside cuz I put something in front of the door and I called the fucking cops myself I thought fuck it she told me the cops are coming anyways and I'm not going to just forget about 150 bucks. Well when the cops came back and handed me only 50 bucks I would have gotten it all back but she told the fucking cops something about prostitution and said I'm lucky I don't get caught for prostitution dumb ass bitch I didn't really know she was a prostitute cuz I even told her if she was only a prostitute I don't need it. There was also a 300 or more black man in the other room so that's another reason I left so fast I had too much to loose and the cops said I better watch my back cuz that big black guy was upset but fuck him I got a guy that I'm like best friends with that says he will kick someone's ass for me that is a million times more gangsta than what he possibly can be. Im a small man and I can handle myself in a fight well enough cuz I made it half way to black belt but sith meditation has it so I will no longer fight a fair fight I carry around pepper spray and if I wanted to i would drop his ass I won't fight anyone fair I got rid of all traditions like that when I became enlightened. I would have done something back but I accidentally messaged her on Facebook after that and now she knows my last name and shit like that the bitch is scary and she never even called the cops it was all just a ploy to steal my fucking money you know alot of people were really pissed off because I was dating a black chick and that's the only experience like that that I really had with a black chick and I've had mostly bad experiences with black people I don't think I'm going to try dating another black chick even though I've been close friends with a black man for the past 17 years

  3. #18


    I don't spend money on pussy really though I'd rather and get high and work on more rap music rap and dope are my two true girlfriends right now but I've been talking to this other bitch for 7 months now and she's been a major pain in the ass cuz she dumped me like a million times that's why she's a pain in the ass but we still talk every day and she says she might still do it but at this point I'm not putting much faith in her and she has as much bad luck with men as I have with women but who knows I rarely meet new women where I live so she's pretty much been the only one

  4. #19


    As it turns out I've been reading about and practicing zen meditation for the last 16 years. In softmore year of high school someone asked me about nirvana and told me about zen and it's like a light bulb immediately turned on in my head and I was instantly hooked even though I read zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance earlier than that. Although that book was able zen it doesn't talk about traditional zen or anything like that it wasn't a proper introduction to zen even though I read that book 3 fucking times now and it's sequel once

  5. #20


    A person dosent need to be a monk to find enlightenment Buddha taught the middle path

  6. #21


    Enlightenment is made out to be this big ass fucking thing and although it is its the simplest thing once you've reached it although it's the greatest thing to ever happen to me I always expected more

  7. #22


    But now it's like how could there even be any more there's not as far as enlightenment but zen is all about self improvement and there are ways to improve with other teachings and you gotta remember that the school of Buddhism I chose is zen which is nothing more and nothing less than direct nothingness. Zen says fuck all the teachings and fuck Buddhism you see Buddhism is a religion and zen is a philosophy. Just try to understand that my zen teacher and master is none other than master sing song himself who is known for his swag funnyness and his superior ability to teach zen to westerners. Just to prove his point that the teachings of Buddhism ain't shit he use to go around to different temples sprinkling ashes on statues of the Buddha which upset a great many number of people but he was enlightened and they were still seeking it enlightenment is direct attainment and all the teachings and traditions just pointed you on the right path but once you get there you leave it all behind there are no words or thoughts in enlightenment you simply become a mirror that reflects everything around you with no thought just awareness that's the true self it's not what people think

  8. #23


    Here are two things seong song said all the time: zen is just shit on a stick "referring to the sticks they put down outhouse holes to unclog them and shit" and he always said all the time the Nike slogan "just do it"

  9. #24


    Here is a photo of my master I read his 500 page book the compass of zen twice and not only was it 500 pages long but the pages were also twice the size of a normal book

    And here are some quotes from him

    You can fix your body, your heart, your diabetes. In Korea, China, and India, there are people who do yoga. They go to the mountains and do breath-in, breath-out meditation. They can live 500 years and not get sick. Keeping their bodies for a long time is possible; even flying in the sky is possible. Seung Sahn
    Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/q...ahn615879.html

    Seung sahn was plagued by health problems but he never let it disrupt his immortal spirit

    I always try meditation. Meditation means always keeping one mind, not-moving mind. Seung Sahn
    Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/q...ahn615880.html

    Meditation means keeping one mind. You must understand - what is life? What is death? If you keep one mind, there is no life, no death. Then if you die tomorrow, no problem; if you die in five minutes, no problem. Seung Sahn
    Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/q...ahn615881.html

    Correct meditation means correctly understanding your situation moment by moment - what are you doing now? Only do it! Then, each action is complete; each action is enough. Then no thinking, so each moment I can perceive everything just like this.
    Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/q...ahn615882.html

    Perceiving your own voice means perceiving your true self or nature. When you and the sound become one, you don't hear the sound; you are the sound. Seung Sahn
    Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/q...ahn615883.html

    When reading, only read. When eating, only eat. When thinking, only think. Seung Sahn
    Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/q...ahn615884.html

    American dog say, 'Woof, woof.' Korean dog say, 'Mung, mung.' Polish dog say, 'How, how.' So which dog barking is correct? That is human beings' barking, not 'dog' barking. If dog and you become one hundred percent one, then you know sound of barking. This is Zen teaching. Boom! Become one. Seung Sahn
    Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/q...ahn615885.html

    Human beings understand too much. Seung Sahn
    Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/q...ahn615886.html

    Don't want anything. Then you get everything. Seung Sahn
    Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/q...ahn615887.html

    Human beings also kill animals not just for food. They take the animals’ skin to make shoes and hats and clothes. And even that is not enough. They take these animals’ bones to make necklaces or buttons or earrings. In short, they kill many, many animals in order to sell the animal parts for money. Because of these desires and this strong animal consciousness, human beings fight with each other, and destroy nature. They do not value life. So now this whole world has many problems; problems with the water, problems with the air, problems with the earth and food. Many new problems appear every day. These problems do not happen by accident. Human beings make each and every one of these problems. Dogs, cats, or lions, or snakes – no animal makes as many problems for this world as human beings do. Humans do not understand their true nature, so they use their thinking and desire to create so much suffering for this world. That is why some people say that human beings are the number one bad animal in this world. So human beings must soon wake up and find their original seeds, their original nature. -seung sahn


    Even if you understand all the Buddha's speech, if you cannot demonstrate this understanding when called upon, it is worth nothing. Dry cognition cannot help your life. Even if you read all the eighty-four thousand sutras and attend dharma talks regularly, it will not help you as much as experiencing one moment of clear mind. At the moment of your death, what will your intellectual understanding do for you? In the future, you will eventually lose this body: at that time, how will your academic knowledge help you get a new one? All of our understanding is only somebody else's idea. No matter how great this understanding is, if it hasn't been digested and become yours through the practice of meditation, it cannot help you.

    Excerpted from:

    The Compass of Zen

    Zen Master Seung Sahn, page 213.

    January 19, 2013
    “Our mind is like a clear glass of water. If you put salt into the water,
    it becomes salt water; sugar, it becomes sugar water; shit it becomes
    shit water. But originally the water is clear. No thinking, no mind.
    No mind, no problem.”

    Zen Master Seung Sahn

  10. #25


    Seung Sahn, Explosive Zen and Drunk Angry Monks
    Via John Pappas
    on May 4, 2010 31 Shares
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    One of the grand old men of American Zen and founder of the Kwan Um School of Zen, Seung Sahn Soen Sa Nim (1927-2004), was a Korean Zen master of the Chogye Order of Korean Zen, who after establishing temples in Japan and China, began to turn his head towards the West with its undeveloped fields of struggling mindstreams. As a major part of the initial wave of Zen teachers in the West, his teachings have become as iconic to Seon (Korean Zen) as Suzuki-roshi’s teachings to Soto Zen and Chogyum Trungpa’s to the Vajrayana – each line developing differently with the three lineages having crossed over each other during the years hence and have created what many view as a standard for “American” practice.

    Seung Sahn’s enlightenment was recognized by the Korean Zen Master Ko Bong Su Nim at the very young age of 22. An exacting and fierce tiger-eyed master, Ko Bong was well-known to be suspicious of teaching monks, considering them arrogant and lazy thus he focused his efforts mainly upon nuns and laypersons. A legacy that Seung Sahn will continue in his own future interactions, teachings and correspondence.

    After getting enlightenment, Seung Sahn Sunim went to check his attainment with Zen Master Ko Bong. Ko Bong Sunim tested him with many difficult Kong-Ans, all of which the young Seung Sahn Sunim passed with ease. Zen Master Ko Bong finally stumped him with the Kong-An “The mouse eats cat food, but the cat bowl is broken.” The two sat facing each other, eyes locked, for close to an hour, when suddenly Seung Sahn Sunim had a breakthrough and gave him the correct answer. Zen Master Ko Bong then said “You are the flower and I am the bee” and soon after gave Dharma transmission to the young Seung Sahn Sunim. Ko Bong Sunim spent his final days at Hwa Gye Sa temple in Seoul, being cared for by his only Dharma heir, and eventually he passed away in 1962. [full reference here]

    Although this tiger-eyed master recognized the nature of Seung Sahn’s realizations, there was definitely a roguish streak according in Sahn’s mentor. In a dharma talk following koan instruction, this story was relayed to his students…

    At Jong Hae Sah Temple in Korea they had three months of sitting, three months vacation. During vacation, everybody had to collect money or food and bring it back for the sitting period. At that time Zen Master Mang Gong was just beginning the temple and had no money. So the students would go around to the homes of lay people, recite the Heart Sutra, get rice or money and bring it back to the monastery. But when my teacher Ko Bong got rice, he’d sell it at the end of the day and go out drinking – laughing and singing. Everybody else came back at the end of vacation with sacks of rice. All he ever brought back was alcohol. Then he’d be drinking and shouting all night, “This temple’s no good! Buddhism is full of shit! Mang Gong doesn’t understand Dharma! He’s a low class master!”

    Once Mang Gong showed up during one of Ko Bong’s rampages and screamed at him, “What do you understand?” Everybody was waiting to see what would happen. “KO BONG!” “Yes!” “Why are you always insulting me behind my back?” Ko Bong looked completely surprised and offended. “Zen Master, I never said anything about you! I was talking about this good-for-nothing Mang Gong!” “Mang Gong? What do you mean, Mang Gong? I’M MANG GONG! What’s the difference between me and Mang Gong?” “KAAAATZ!” Ko Bong yelled, loud enough to split your ears. “Go sleep it off,” Mang Gong said, and left the room.

    With this explosive teacher Sueng Sahn continued his practice, he became well-established and was well-known and dynamic in Korea as abbot of the Hwa Gye Sa temple is Seoul until the death of his master in 1962. His only Dharma-heir Seung Sahn provided a progressive model of Zen practice that sat in stark contrast to the current orthodoxy of the Chogye Order by not forcing vows of celibacy on monks and nuns of his order while still providing a very strict and tried program of silent sitting and koan practice combined with compassionately engaged civic action. Seung Sahn also appealed to Westerners by his insistence on placing women in positions of organizational leadership that were usually reserved for males. Perhaps it is partly for these reasons, a combination of the conservative with the progressive, that the Kwan Um School of Zen is so prevalent in the US as well as in Europe (centers are also established in Africa and Israel).

    Seung Sahn’s energy and indomitable presence left a foundational mark on how Western palates understand Korean Zen (Seon) practice. His exuberant and expressive manner in presenting the dharma is clear in any of the late Zen Master’s writing with one student expressed that even his silence was “so energetic, that he looked like a wound up spring, ready to leap and talk or yell some more.”

    Excerpt from a dharma talk of Seung Sahn:

    I decide, then I don’t do. This means I don’t believe in myself. Ask a child, “What is one plus two?” “Three.” “Is that correct?” “Sure, it’s correct.” He believes in himself, so he doesn’t think about it. “One plus two doesn’t equal three…” “It does too! My teacher said so!” A child’s mind doesn’t shake so easily. But Zen students! They cling to words and thinking.

    Your mind is always one of these three: lost mind, empty mind, or clear mind. On the street, a thief comes up. “Give me your money!” How is your mind then? Somebody says sex mind is Zen mind, but if you suddenly found a gun in your face while you’re making love, would your mind move? If you’re afraid you’ll lose your life, you have lost your mind.

    Empty mind won’t move. “This is a hold up!” “Om mani padme hum. Om mani padme hum. Om mani padme hum.” “You want some lead in your head?” “Om mani padme hum. Om mani padme hum…” “Are you crazy?” “Om mani padme hum…” Crazy/sane, alive/dead. It is all one to empty mind.

    And clear mind? “Give me money!” “How much do you want?” “Shut up, you… give me all of it!” No fear. Just check the mind behind the gun.

    A coiled spring seems to be a good analogy for the madness that many experience when they begin to explore Buddhism and Buddhist practice after a lifetime of learning to worship and value materials with a skandha-lous view of the world. With no control over the coiling but an ability to blithely ignore our own coiled nature, we became kinked and trapped within our nature without ever realizing it.

    The same student remarked that you could never get Seung Sahn to move away from constantly speaking in “Zen-talk” (personally, for me, this is as annoying as someone constantly speaking in tongues) but his purpose was that the constant exposure would lead a student to have a firm understanding of her practice and ability. This style of teaching may have been the premeditating factors in the following reaction of a student as documented by Sean Murphy in his book “One Bird One Stone.”

    A senior student who had been practicing with Seung Sahn for many years was walking with his teacher along a hallway. When the master, in response to some item in the conversation, advised his for the umpteenth time, “Only don’t know,” something in the student snapped.

    Grabbing his teacher and shoving him up against the wall, the student shouted “If I hear you say that one more time I’m going to scream!”

    Seung Sahn looked at him and nodded. “Very good dharma demonstration!” he said.

    So I wonder…are we just coiled springs without direction or momentum? It is just a matter of time before we spring. Seung Sahn would spring at students with a resounding “Katz!” to spur on realization. We learn towards a speaker when the words engage us – lurching at openings between words. The student above released his spring at the insistent teachings of a great and intuned master.

    The only factor that we practice towards is whether we move in the correct direction or break apart and fall into a mess of kinks. A slinkee goes nowhere until pushed and even then the situation dictates whether it continues with momentum or sits still and stagnates. But the energy is always there. Is meditation the epicenter of our practice? Or does it barely shine a light upon the realization of our potential coiled spring; a spring that can lurch towards the benefit of others or towards the detriment. It is still a spring and it vibrates with energy. Meditation just helps us realize and direct that energy. That is what practice is – a constant interaction of energy and direction.

    In these two poems by Seung Sahn this concept of potentiality is expressed well…

    one sword which replenishes,
    one sword which takes away.
    illuminated by lightning flash,
    momentary objects come into view.
    Lions pounce and claw,
    the dog runs after the bone.

    original face is clear,
    manifest in the green pine
    as well as in the white rocks.
    if you wish to understand
    the meaning of,
    the mouse eats cat food,
    and the cat’s bowl is broken;
    you must attain
    that a quarter is also
    twenty five cents.


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    About John Pappas

    John Pappas is a struggling Zen practitioner with a slight Vajrayana palate (but he won't admit it) stumbling between the relative and absolute through the Buddhist Purgatory otherwise known as the Great Plains of South Dakota. Emerging writer, librarian and aspiring hungry ghost, John spews his skewed perception of the dharma all over his personal blog, Subtle Dharma Mouth Punch as well as on the ephemeral Elephant Journal and occasionally (while having no artistic ability to speak of) on Dharma/Arte. John also loves tacos, homebrew, yoginis and obscure Cthulhu references. You can follow him on twitter under the handle @zendustzendirt
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    8 Responses to “Seung Sahn, Explosive Zen and Drunk Angry Monks”

    Judy says:
    May 5, 2010 at 13:25
    Great article, thanks. A small correction: the Kwan Um monk/nun order is celibate, with the full vinaya vows (hundreds of them). But Zen Master Seung Sahn empowered lay people to teach and to lead practice; these people wear long robes just like monks and nuns.

    zendirtzendust says:
    May 5, 2010 at 14:34
    Thanks for your input Judy! It seems that my information may be incorrect … I will have look alittle deeper into the topic.


    John http://www.zendirtzendust.com

    zendirtzendust says:
    May 5, 2010 at 14:34
    Thanks for your input Judy! It seems that my information may be incorrect … I will have look alittle deeper into the topic.


    John http://www.zendirtzendust.com

    Timothy Szykula says:
    May 6, 2010 at 00:18
    Great article, John. One of these days I want to write a paper on drunk monks.

    Jack Daw says:
    May 25, 2010 at 18:00
    Thanks Tim! Long time no see! How has it been going for ya? We can co-write that paper together over a case of Schlitz.

    Machado says:
    May 16, 2010 at 14:31
    Zen is not Buddhism. Zen is a cult, where Zen 'monks' engage in sexual relations. Therefore, Zen cult is sexual, not chaste. Zen is a predator of the Buddhist religion.

    Jack Daw says:
    May 25, 2010 at 11:59
    I think you should probably say that a few more times on a few more blogs. No one cares yet…or will ever.

    You're funny.

    I'm going to drink another Schlitz.

    Keeping a Zen Mind Can Save a Relationship | elephant journal says:
    July 7, 2011 at 17:32
    […] Zen master Seung Sahn liked to instruct his students to keep a “Don’t-Know Mind” so that they wouldn’t cling to […]



  11. #26


    Everything I've ever read says I'm enlightened and although I believe I am, it will truly become official when I go to the zen temple in the cities and get tested you see I'm all self taught and I've never really met anyone as hard core into zen as I am let alone someone that's enlightened. I just got a 500 dollar bonus check for Christmas and very soon I'm going to make the pilgrimage to the temple and see what they say. My master found enlightenment at 22 so it's not far fetched that I found it through 16 years of practice. I was so obsessed with it that after high school I spent many many just so God damn many years in solitude seeking enlightenment and I've spent great amounts of time in solitude before and after that and I am an only child that grew up deep out in the country too
    in the post above it talks about my masters master being an alcoholic lol I could never get anything done when I was drunk so I do something different

  12. #27


    OK in the comments on the article above the guy was right when he said zen is a predator of Buddhism

  13. #28


    Here is my other master when he was young Robert m pirsig

    He wrote a book called zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance which is considered one of the most important philosophy books written in the last half century. This one is a normal sized book approximately 500 or so pages long. In my life I've read it 3 fucking times now
    This book is about zen but it doesn't teach meditation or anything like that. It's about the times leading up to the book you see he was obsessed with but a single word "quality" and he concluded quality is something undefinable which is the source of both subject and object it was all about metaphysics. The book is about his thoughts he has on a motorcycle trip and on the trip he remembers more and more of what happened to him you see he was so obsessed with quality that the eventually got locked in a mental word and they fried his brain with electrical currents till he emerged with a new personality. After that he eventually wrote the most important philosophy book written in the last century. I was obsessed with this book too and went insane just like he did but I recovered too. Here is a quote demonstrating his view on insanity actually here's a few no actually here's my full list of quotes contained in a file I named pirsig and insanity

    Sometimes the insane and the contrarians and the ones who are closest to suicide are the most valuable people society has. They may be precursors of social change. They’ve taken the burdens of the culture onto themselves, and in their struggle to solve their own problems they’re solving problems for the culture as well.
    Robert M. Pirsig

    When people are fanatically dedicated to political or religious faiths or any other kind of dogmas or goals, it's always because these dogmas or goals are in doubt.

    Robert M. Pirsig

    Laws of nature are human inventions, like ghosts. Laws of logic, or mathematics are also human inventions, like ghosts. The whole blessed thing is a human invention, including the idea that it isn't a human invention.

    Robert M. Pirsig

    Peace of mind produces right values, right values produce right thoughts. Right thoughts produce right actions and right actions produce work which will be a material reflection for others to see of the serenity at the centre of it all.
    (Robert M. Pirsig)

    Cultures are not the source of all morals, only a limited set of morals. Cultures can be graded and judged morally according to their contribution to the evolution of life.
    Robert M. Pirsig

    Sanity is not truth. Sanity is conformity to what is socially expected. Truth is sometimes in conformity, sometimes not.
    Robert M. Pirsig

    “One geometry cannot be more true than another it can only be more convenient. Geometry is not true, it is advantageous.”
    Robert M. Pirsig

    “When you look directly at an insane man all you see is a reflection of your own knowledge that he's insane, which is not to see him at all. To see him you must see what he saw and when you are trying to see the vision of an insane man, an oblique route is the only way to come at it.”
    ―Robert M. Pirsig

    “When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called a Religion.”
    ―Robert M. Pirsig

    “I argued that physical discomfort is important only when the mood is wrong. Then you fasten on to whatever thing is uncomfortable and call that the cause. But if the mood is right, then physical discomfort doesn't mean much.”
    ― Robert M. Pirsig,

    “Of course, the laws of science contain no matter and have no energy either and therefore do not exist except in people's minds. It's best to be completely scientific about the whole thing and refuse to believe in either ghosts or the laws of science. That way you're safe. That doesn't leave you very much to believe in, but that's scientific too.”
    ― Robert M. Pirsig

    We must understand that when a society undermines intellectual freedom for its own purposes it is absolutely morally bad, but when it represses biological freedom for its own purposes it is absolutely morally good.
    Pirsig, Robert

    It's not the "nice" guy who brings about real social change. "Nice" guys look nice because they're conforming. It's the "bad" guys, who only look nice a hundred years later, that are the real Dynamic force in social evolution.
    Pirsig, Robert

    When somebody goes outside the cultural norms, the culture has to protect itself.
    Robert M. Pirsig

    Morality is not a simple set of rules. It's a very complex struggle of conflicting patterns of values. This conflict is the residue of evolution. As new patters evolve they come into conflict with old ones. Each stage of evolution creates in its wake a wash of problems.
    Pirsig, Robert M.

    “Your common sense is nothing more than the voices of thousands and thousands of these ghosts from the past.”
    ― Robert M. Pirsig,

    “He felt that institutions such as schools, churches, governments and political organizations of every sort all tended to direct thought for ends other than truth, for the perpetuation of their own functions, and for the control of individuals in the service of these functions.”
    ― Robert M. Pirsig

    “Oh, the laws of physics and of logic…the number system…the principle of algebraic substitution. These are ghosts. We just believe in them so thoroughly they seem real.”
    ― Robert M. Pirsig

    "And so in recent times we have seen a huge split develop between a classic culture and a romantic counterculture...two worlds growingly alienated and hateful toward each other with everyone wondering if it will always be this way, a house divided against itself. No one wants it really...despite what his antagonists in the other dimension might think.

    "It is within this context that what Phædrus thought and said is significant. But no one was listening at that time and they only thought him eccentric at first, then undesirable, then slightly mad, and then genuinely insane. There seems little doubt that he was insane, but much of his writing at the time indicates that what was driving him insane was this hostile opinion of him. Unusual behavior tends to produce estrangement in others which tends to further the unusual behavior and thus the estrangement in self-stoking cycles until some sort of climax is reached. In Phædrus' case there was a court-ordered police arrest and permanent removal from society."
    -robert m pirsig

    ”Insanity” May Be a Step in The Right Direction
    The insanity is the adjustment. Insanity isn’t necessarily a step in the
    wrong direction. It can be an intermediate step in a right direction. It
    wasn’t necessarily a disease. It could be part of a cure.
    An insane delusion can’t be held by a group at all. A person isn’t
    considered insane if there are a number of people who believe the
    same way (compare Khomeiny and his followers; you cannot state that
    they are all insane in the true sense of the word! Even if you deeply
    detest their views). Insanity isn’t supposed to be a communicable
    disease. If one other person starts to believe him, or maybe two or
    three, then it’s a religion.

    ”Nothing disturbs a bishop quite so much as the presence of a
    saint in the parish.” The saint’s Dynamic understanding makes him
    unpredictable and uncontrollable (compare the intrapreneur!), but the
    bishop’s got a whole calendar of static ceremonies to attend to (compare
    the manager!). That saint’s going to up-end everything if he isn’t handled
    diplomatically. And even then he may do something wildly
    unpredictable that upsets everybody. It can take the bishops years,
    decades, even centuries to put down the hell that a saint can raise in a
    single day.
    -robert m pirsig

    I've read zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance 3 times now and I read his less popular but still very important sequel to zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance once. The book is called lila and in this one he takes the concept of undefinable quality to the next level and develops the MOQ "metaphysics of quality. Let me pull that up for you. Here it is

    "Dynamic Quality cannot be defined. It can only be understood intellectually through the use of analogy."

    Dan Glover, Lila's Child: An Inquiry Into Quality
    "Quality," or "value," as described by Pirsig, cannot be defined because it empirically precedes any intellectual construction of it, namely due to the fact that quality (as Pirsig explicitly defines it) exists always as a perceptual experience before it is ever thought of descriptively or academically. Quality is the "knife-edge" of experience, found only in the present, known or at least potentially accessible to all of "us". (Plato's Phaedrus, 258d). Equating it with the Tao, Pirsig postulates that Quality is the fundamental force in the universe stimulating everything from atoms to animals to evolve and incorporate ever greater levels of Quality. According to the MOQ, everything (including ideas, and matter) is a product and a result of Quality.

    Static quality patterns and dynamic quality Edit
    The MOQ maintains that quality itself is undefinable (Tao), but to better understand it, Pirsig breaks quality down into two ("knife-edge") forms: static quality patterns (patterned) and dynamic quality (unpatterned). The four patterns of static value as well as dynamic quality account exhaustively for all of ("knife-edged") reality. As the initial (cutting edge) dynamic quality becomes habituated, it turns into static patterns (viz. data, expectations). It is important to note that Pirsig is not proposing a duality: quality is one, "every last bit of it", yet manifests itself differently. Rather than dualism, this manifestation of quality in terms of dynamic and static aspects represents a dialectical monism.

    Dynamic quality Edit
    Dynamic quality cannot be defined. It can only be understood intellectually through the use of analogy. It can be described as the force of change in the universe; when an aspect of quality becomes habitual or customary, it becomes static. Pirsig calls dynamic quality "the pre-intellectual cutting edge of reality" because it can be recognized before it can be conceptualized. This is why the dynamic beauty of a piece of music can be recognized before a static analysis explaining why the music is beautiful can be constructed.

    Static quality patterns and dynamic quality Edit
    The MOQ maintains that quality itself is undefinable (Tao), but to better understand it, Pirsig breaks quality down into two ("knife-edge") forms: static quality patterns (patterned) and dynamic quality (unpatterned). The four patterns of static value as well as dynamic quality account exhaustively for all of ("knife-edged") reality. As the initial (cutting edge) dynamic quality becomes habituated, it turns into static patterns (viz. data, expectations). It is important to note that Pirsig is not proposing a duality: quality is one, "every last bit of it", yet manifests itself differently. Rather than dualism, this manifestation of quality in terms of dynamic and static aspects represents a dialectical monism.

    Dynamic quality Edit
    Dynamic quality cannot be defined. It can only be understood intellectually through the use of analogy. It can be described as the force of change in the universe; when an aspect of quality becomes habitual or customary, it becomes static. Pirsig calls dynamic quality "the pre-intellectual cutting edge of reality" because it can be recognized before it can be conceptualized. This is why the dynamic beauty of a piece of music can be recognized before a static analysis explaining why the music is beautiful can be constructed.

    ality patterns Edit
    Pirsig defines static quality as everything which can be defined. Everything found in a dictionary, for instance, is static quality. These static forms, if they have enough high or low quality, are given names and are interchanged with other "people", building the base of knowledge for a culture. So some cultures divide between things other cultures perceive as equal (Pirsig gave as example the sounds of the Indian syllables "dha" and "da," which are absolutely equal to western ears), and some cultures haven't any words for a specific meaning at all (the exact meaning of the German word "verklemmt" cannot be translated into English). Pirsig divides static quality into inorganic, biological, social, and intellectual patterns, in ascending order of morality.

    Inorganic patterns: non-living things
    Biological patterns: living things
    Social patterns: behaviors, habits, rituals, institutions.
    Intellectual patterns: ideas
    Pirsig describes evolution as the moral progression of these patterns of value. For example, a biological pattern overcoming an inorganic pattern (e.g. bird flight which overcomes gravity) is a moral thing because a biological pattern is a higher form of evolution. Likewise, an intellectual pattern of value overcoming a social one (e.g. Civil Rights) is a moral development because intellect is a higher form of evolution than society. Therefore, decisions about one's conduct during any given day can be made using the Metaphysics of Quality. It is important to note that Pirsig is not proposing criticism or responsibility, but acceptance, and pure absorption:

    "When he wrote it he felt momentary fright and was about to strike out the words "All of it. Every last bit of it." Madness there. I think he saw it. But he couldn’t see any logical reason to strike these words out and it was too late now for faintheartedness. He ignored his warning and let the words stand."-ZMM, Ch.20

    "Good is a noun. That was it. That was what Phaedrus had been looking for. That was the homer, over the fence, that ended the ball game. Good as a noun rather than as an adjective is all the Metaphysics of Quality is about. Of course, the ultimate Quality isn't a noun or an adjective or anything else definable, but if you had to reduce the whole Metaphysics of Quality to a single sentence, that would be it."-Lila, The End

    "The language we've inherited confuses this. We say "my" body and "your" body and "his" body and "her" body, but it isn't that way. ... This Cartesian "Me," this autonomous little homunculus who sits behind our eyeballs looking out through them in order to pass judgment on the affairs of the world, is just completely ridiculous. This self-appointed little editor of reality is just an impossible fiction that collapses the moment one examines it."-ZMM, Ch.15

    "Another immoral way of killing the static patterns is to pass the patterns to someone else, in what Phaedrus called a 'karma dump.' ... If you take all this karmic garbage and make yourself feel better by passing it on to others that's normal. That's the way the world works. But if you manage to absorb it and not pass[editor's emboldening] it on, that's the highest moral conduct of all."-Lila, Ch.32

  14. #29


    Robert m pirsig and zen master seong sahn or my only two masters when it comes to enlightenment however it is true I used the sith too but I was only using the sith philosophy I needed and threw the rest in the fucking garbage a sith has never been my master cuz I used a custom build I built myself so really when it comes to that it almost seems that I was the master you see i never had any bad intentions when it came to the sith and the sith played a major roll for me when it came to achieving perfect balance but it almost consumed me but zen master seong sahn killed the sith inside me when he gave me what I believe to be dharma transmission through a YouTube video from the grave I explain it earlier in this post

  15. #30


    Nobody ever taught me to do the intense and long term meditation I once did I developed it all on my own I was already really good at meditation I just switched it from nothing to pure unfocused hate and it cured my bipolar and prepared me for the next step towards my eventual enlightenment

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