My main issue with 8 Diagrams.....

[num2son]

... and it did hurt the album..

Rza could have re-arrange the track list so ghost could have been heard toward the end of the album.

[claaa7]

^ true, but what he really should have done is to have waited or done whatever it took to get Ghost on "Life Changes".. that would have made it feel like we got a lot more Ghost and not having him on ODB's tribute song reflected badly on the whole Clan but especially on RZA and Ghost. shame really.

just listening to "Tar Pit".. from what i understand this is one of the more disliked tracks on the album. like seriously WTF?! this is 100% excellence.. really shows RZA knows what he's doing with using live instruments and still having a great ear for weird compositions that ends up working. some real down and dirty funky shit, reminds me of some classic Funkadelic shit.. wise move to get the Godfather himself George Clinton to hop on this. should have been included on all editions of the album.


so what are the songs that didn't make the cut.. it's been a while so help me fill in any blanks here:

"You Can't Stop Me Now"
"Thug World" (remixed for the album as "Unpredictable" which i really like but "Thug World" would have been a better fit for a Clan album)
"Heart Gently Weeps" (reference version, first released by LOUD as a promotional single.. this is the version with just the sample and no live instrumentation.. very similiar to "My Guitar" by Ghost)
"Wolves" (original version, later known as the Disco Version due to it's old school B-boy vibe.. imo a good choice to remix it with the harder version)
"Watch Your Mouth" (dope track, would have loved to hear what RZA intended to do with this as the idea was for him to add some stuff as far as i remember)



on top of that i know that Marley Marl, Q-Tip and even Nile Rodgers worked on shelved or perhaps unfinished music from these sessions

[cbfwebs]

"Thug World" original version is boss. The chorus has that right type of dark feel that "Unpredictable" just does not. The latter just feels like another carbon copy hook and re-used Inspectah Deck verse ("Get Ya Weight Up" from 2006's 'The Resident Patient'), which I hate when the members drop old verses we've heard before and call it a freestyle or new song. It's lazy af. The original hook is like ouuu that sounds dope. And with the melody rising gives it a sense of rising tension on the hook. No ho can hold me.

On a sidenote, when speaking on cut tracks, I think the real album to discuss would be Cuban Linx II. "Thug World" was originally from that album, as was "You Can't Stop Me Now" which appeared on Bobby Digital 3 Digi Snax but was originally titled "No Matter How Hard You Try". Also, I'd want to hear the INS/GZA versions of some songs they billed earlier on like "Mean Streets" before Ghostface made 11th hour contributions in keeping with the tradition.

[Rev Jones]

as a DOOM fan I always liked this version that compared RZA's / DOOM's verses on the same beat



while I like Digi Snax (yes I know lol) I agree that You can't stop me now deserved to be on a better album like CBL II or 8D

do any of you know where exactly in the various albums' time line the 'long' version of 'You can't stop me now' fits?

[claaa7]

"Thug World" original version is boss. The chorus has that right type of dark feel that "Unpredictable" just does not. The latter just feels like another carbon copy hook and re-used Inspectah Deck verse ("Get Ya Weight Up" from 2006's 'The Resident Patient'), which I hate when the members drop old verses we've heard before and call it a freestyle or new song. It's lazy af. The original hook is like ouuu that sounds dope. And with the melody rising gives it a sense of rising tension on the hook. No ho can hold me.

On a sidenote, when speaking on cut tracks, I think the real album to discuss would be Cuban Linx II. "Thug World" was originally from that album, as was "You Can't Stop Me Now" which appeared on Bobby Digital 3 Digi Snax but was originally titled "No Matter How Hard You Try". Also, I'd want to hear the INS/GZA versions of some songs they billed earlier on like "Mean Streets" before Ghostface made 11th hour contributions in keeping with the tradition.

co-sign on everything you said about "Thug World", shit is plain nasty on all levels and would have sounded great in context next to "Rushing Elephants".. i agree that it's not a good look to keep reusing verses, but in this case i would guess that "Thug World" might be the original verse and INS thought it was Ok to reuse it, or preview it, on his mixtape.

word on CL2 too.. i've been playing around a lot with that tracklist and searching high and low for any scraps on information about the original songs on there. i don't care how old it was by the time it was released, it was a travesty to delete "State of Grace"... and once again FUCK YOU to the dickhead from here that managed to get "Rockstars" cut off from the final album. smh. this is the version of the album i came up with when piecing together... flows nice as hell!! much better than the actual retail:

http://claaa7.blogspot.com/2015/02/a...ns-ob4cl2.html

as a DOOM fan I always liked this version that compared RZA's / DOOM's verses on the same beat



while I like Digi Snax (yes I know lol) I agree that You can't stop me now deserved to be on a better album like CBL II or 8D

do any of you know where exactly in the various albums' time line the 'long' version of 'You can't stop me now' fits?

considering it has both U-God and Deck on there and heavily builds on the same vibe as "8 Diagrams" my guess is that both versions were recorded during the 8 Diagrams sessions.. probably as they were trying out different sounds for the LP as evidenced by "Unexplained", the different versions of "Wolves", the beat switch in "Gun Will Go", etc. that version is dope though, long time since i heard it.. do you happen to have a high quality mp3 or m4a copy Lee Towers (or anyone else)?

[Rev Jones]

^^thanks for the insight

as to your question, all I have is an mp3 sourced from that very YouTube vid, so it's not high quality


also, somebody from the corp got Rockstars cut off the CB LII tracklist? smh

[claaa7]

also, somebody from the corp got Rockstars cut off the CB LII tracklist? smh

yes.. we had the tracklist and "Rockstars" was always on there up until maybe two weeks before the albums final release back in '09.
then came an early review from someone who had been at a listening session.. he mentioned how dope "Rockstars" was and how it had this really ill Dutch singer on there which led to speculation that it might be Thea.. when that was confirmed some asshole started pestering Rae on Twitter how he could disgace the legacy of Cuban Linx by having Thea on there, etc. next thing you know the track was gone from the next tracklist.

[Rev Jones]

yes.. we had the tracklist and "Rockstars" was always on there up until maybe two weeks before the albums final release back in '09.
then came an early review from someone who had been at a listening session.. he mentioned how dope "Rockstars" was and how it had this really ill Dutch singer on there which led to speculation that it might be Thea.. when that was confirmed some asshole started pestering Rae on Twitter how he could disgace the legacy of Cuban Linx by having Thea on there, etc. next thing you know the track was gone from the next tracklist.

jesus.

I guess the hate for Thea was really really real

to me she was always a dope singer

[Don Universo]

Unpredictable > Thug world (RZA verse was more Bobby Digi than Bobby Steele). Plus I like the heavy metal shit. Thug world seems too plain without it.

"Wolves" would've been one of the best Clan songs if it wasn't for the hook.
"Tar pit" was weak and out of place.
Overall, nice gritty dark Clan album

[Pattch82]

Here's how I've been listening to 8D for the last few days. I gotta say, after messing around with the playlist for a while and taking a few tracks off, there is actually a fairly solid album in there. I still don't think it's something I would bump on a regular basis but this plays much better than the retail version for me...

01. Campfire (without the movie dialogue intro, I edited that part out)
02. Take It Back
03. Watch Your Mouth
04. Get Them Out Ya Way Pa
05. Rushing Elephants
06. Thug World
07. The Heart Gently Weeps (original sample version)
08. Wolves (album version)
09. Gun Will Go
10. Sunlight
11. Windmill
12. Weak Spot
13. Tar Pit
14. Life Changes


Not massively different to the retail version, but to me it flows so much better with a couple of the original tracks in there, and leaving off Starter and Stick Me For My Riches.



Peace!

[TSA]

8 diagrams beats aren't bad because they don't sound 'wulike'. I think saying there's a wutang sound simplifies the history of the group. Ironman sounds nothing the W. Rza made weak flat music, and the verses were uneventful. There's nothing worth remembering about the album and all of the artists sounded like they were just trying to get through it. Meth and U God were highlights because they seemed like they wanted to come through on the album. Most of 8 Diagrams sounds like a eunuch's wwf intro music. Today I can only listen to Windmill and that's on a wutang binge where i'm not listening to the rest of music as to not remind me how flat even that song is.

[ShaDynasty]

I completely disagree with that analysis. I think RZA crafted something totally unique and immersive and beautifully detailed. I also think the verses were memorable. Its a particularly strong showcase for GZA, Ghostface & RZA imo.

Thug World was absolutely better than the final version though, better verses, no wack non funky bassline and that 'The Good, The Bad & The Ugly" quote etc.

[TSA]

I completely disagree with that analysis. I think RZA crafted something totally unique and immersive and beautifully detailed. I also think the verses were memorable. Its a particularly strong showcase for GZA, Ghostface & RZA imo.

Thug World was absolutely better than the final version though, better verses, no wack non funky bassline and that 'The Good, The Bad & The Ugly" quote etc.

sometimes i read feedback like this and wonder if i should give it another listen (and i gave it hella listens before dropping it). I think letting us into the creative process was a mistake because everyone has a version of one or two songs they like more that the final cut. There were 2 versions of wolves that were absolute jams, but the final in comparison lethargic and weak.
I can actually dance to one of the other versions of wolves, then Rza took that factor out which killed it. I doubt that's much of a factor for 99% of this site but it's a big one for me and good music as a whole.

[trinking]

just listening to "Tar Pit".. from what i understand this is one of the more disliked tracks on the album. like seriously WTF?! this is 100% excellence.. really shows RZA knows what he's doing with using live instruments and still having a great ear for weird compositions that ends up working.

so what are the songs that didn't make the cut.. it's been a while so help me fill in any blanks here:

"You Can't Stop Me Now"
"Thug World" (remixed for the album as "Unpredictable" which i really like but "Thug World" would have been a better fit for a Clan album)
"Heart Gently Weeps" (reference version, first released by LOUD as a promotional single.. this is the version with just the sample and no live instrumentation.. very similiar to "My Guitar" by Ghost)
"Wolves" (original version, later known as the Disco Version due to it's old school B-boy vibe.. imo a good choice to remix it with the harder version)
"Watch Your Mouth" (dope track, would have loved to hear what RZA intended to do with this as the idea was for him to add some stuff as far as i remember)

Can someone post these originals and different mixes? I don't recall hearing some of them.

Tar pit COULD HAVE been one of the best tracks on the album..but its a 5 minute track with less then 2 minutes of rapping..did we really need 3 minutes of George Clinton talkin a bunch of nonsensical bullshit at the end of a wu tang clan album?! Plus had arguably the weakest emcee in the clan and 2 killa bees. Streetlife and cap are both dope but not to end a WU TANG CLAN! album with. End with a bang not a thud.

On somewhat of a side note..does anyone think that RZA may possibly be done wit the rock/alternative/corny beats and music he's been creating? Started slowly wit 8D and digi snacks, sprinkled some good shit here and there, and (hopefully) ended on that atrocity that is banks and steelez..or is it just wishful thinking. Be dope if he realized that he fulfilled his musical quest or whatever he was on and realized that yes he gained a lot of knowledge and bettered his craft but its time to be real and get back to what he's best at but still with a dose of what he's learned.

Btw State of Grace is one of the best Raekwon songs EVER made! That song is the whole reason a HUGE amount of people started to even discuss and start checkin for CL2

[BigSchnikkel]

8 Diagrams was the moment you knew Wu-Tang was definitely over.

'I'm tryin to bring the Sexy Back like Timbaland and Timberlake'